Peterborough North

[great northern]

Today will apparently be another which features several hours of constant heavy rain, so indoor pursuits are the order of the day. I shall fight the gloom to replenish the image store, which, after the next two shots are posted, will be empty. We have an Ivatt which has just arrived with a Wisbech local.

followed by a look along the Up slow, with trains on either side.

That camera really is cruel, you know.

[great northern]

While running trains this morning, I remembered something that has caused me puzzlement before. I'll ask the question now, as I may have forgotten by the time I come to post the relevant picture. This is one for our former railwaymen really, I think.

 

It concerns the 5.25 slow to KX. The information I have shows this to have been a Doncaster duty, and I have seen photos which back that up. However, I have also read, and in more than one source, that in summer 58 this service was being used as part of a KX diagram to allow crew training on the new EE Type 4s. I also have a recorded sighting of a Haymarket A4 on the train. This was a failure on the Up Elizabethan which presumably KX were testing/running in after a minor repair.

 

Two possibilities occur to me:-

1. The information about it being diagrammed for a Doncaster engine is wrong.

2. Things didn't always happen as the official diagrams said they should. The latter doesn't surprise me in the least, but it does raise this question. If the diagrammed engine wasn't used for the working, what would happen to it? Would New England have just found a way to get it where it needed to be for its next duty? One can imagine the knock on effects which could occur if things got too far from what was planned.

[great northern]

The 4.05 pm Down Leeds and Bradford usually meant the appearance of the "unnamed streak", and so that is what happens on PN. I remember the teenage angst that not only had a streak, yet again, turned out not to be Kingfisher or Golden Plover, but that it didn't even have a name. Here it is, sidling in under Crescent Bridge.

Meanwhile, at Platform 2 fellow Doncaster resident Ladas stands waiting time with the 5.25 KX slow.

[great northern]

Whatever else one might say about it, 60700 was certainly an impressive looking beast, and so it gets two more images devoted to it this morning, one in good old fashioned black and white.

[The Stationmaster]

While running trains this morning, I remembered something that has caused me puzzlement before. I'll ask the question now, as I may have forgotten by the time I come to post the relevant picture. This is one for our former railwaymen really, I think.

 

It concerns the 5.25 slow to KX. The information I have shows this to have been a Doncaster duty, and I have seen photos which back that up. However, I have also read, and in more than one source, that in summer 58 this service was being used as part of a KX diagram to allow crew training on the new EE Type 4s. I also have a recorded sighting of a Haymarket A4 on the train. This was a failure on the Up Elizabethan which presumably KX were testing/running in after a minor repair.

 

Two possibilities occur to me:-

1. The information about it being diagrammed for a Doncaster engine is wrong.

2. Things didn't always happen as the official diagrams said they should. The latter doesn't surprise me in the least, but it does raise this question. If the diagrammed engine wasn't used for the working, what would happen to it? Would New England have just found a way to get it where it needed to be for its next duty? One can imagine the knock on effects which could occur if things got too far from what was planned.

 

I do know - from a former Top Shed Fireman - that certain sheds were not above pinching engines off double home turns when the 'owning' crew were away in bed.  Gateshead was one named culprit but no doubt certain depots with poor reputations for looking after their engines weren't above 'inadvertently using' the 'wrong' engine if it happened to be a good 'un.  

 

That apart diagrams would be altered for a variety of reasons and published as 'special traffic' short term alterations (not that the term necessarily meant anything in the way of any sort of special traffic) and that would quite likely be the case for crew training reasons and of course Control could make alterations at short notice for all sorts of reasons ranging from engine failures to crewing problems and anything in between.   The problem for the researcher is that it is usually (if anything at all) the official diagrams, engine working, or coach working etc which come to light and might be taken as immovable tablets of stone whereas the stuff turned out under short notice and special traffic planning, let alone control alterations, has usually vanished into the mists of time as scrap paper or salvage.  When you consider that hundreds of us in various past roles would have been altering various details in respect of potentially hundreds of trains during the life of a timetable there is a vast mountain of day-to-day information which has simply been lost to history apart from possible photographs.

[great northern]

I do know - from a former Top Shed Fireman - that certain sheds were not above pinching engines off double home turns when the 'owning' crew were away in bed.  Gateshead was one named culprit but no doubt certain depots with poor reputations for looking after their engines weren't above 'inadvertently using' the 'wrong' engine if it happened to be a good 'un.  

 

That apart diagrams would be altered for a variety of reasons and published as 'special traffic' short term alterations (not that the term necessarily meant anything in the way of any sort of special traffic) and that would quite likely be the case for crew training reasons and of course Control could make alterations at short notice for all sorts of reasons ranging from engine failures to crewing problems and anything in between.   The problem for the researcher is that it is usually (if anything at all) the official diagrams, engine working, or coach working etc which come to light and might be taken as immovable tablets of stone whereas the stuff turned out under short notice and special traffic planning, let alone control alterations, has usually vanished into the mists of time as scrap paper or salvage.  When you consider that hundreds of us in various past roles would have been altering various details in respect of potentially hundreds of trains during the life of a timetable there is a vast mountain of day-to-day information which has simply been lost to history apart from possible photographs.

One can always rely on Mike. It seems to be very well documented that Top Shed would often use the Gateshead A1 which had come in with an overnight sleeper for a quick trip to Grantham and back before its scheduled evening return journey, and I might even replicate that one day. However, the second paragraph is much more intriguing. The trick must be to schedule the unusual, but not the "one off" occurences, or at least not more than one on the same day. It isn't a licence to ignore the working practices of the time, but also a warning not to stick too rigidly to what the precious surviving documents tell us.

[great northern]

There seem to be plenty of photographers at PN just now, as we get two more views of 60700 from opposite sides of the train.

This is one of the shots I've wanted to be able to get for ages. The angle was always too acute before, but this is a lot closer to what I'm after. The chap on the other side had only black and white film, but he was able to get 60067 in shot, as well as the W1.

[Sandhole]

Tonight, the A5 has got just a little further on its way to Lincolnshire.

A5 2.JPG

and the cameraman can't resist yet another shot of the J15.

J15.JPG

 

Nothing much else to report, save that I have been rather wet earlier, but am now once more warm and dry.

I've just seen the Sentinel in the background behind the J15.

What duties does she perform?

[great northern]

I've just seen the Sentinel in the background behind the J15.

What duties does she perform?

In theory, she is there to shunt the District Engineer's sidings, and may have been involved with the C&W repair shop too. In practice, as almost none of the track in those areas can be included, she doesn't do a lot. Looks nice though.

[manna]

I've just seen the Sentinel in the background behind the J15.

What duties does she perform?

G'Day Folks

 

Still waiting to see her on the Elizabethan................!!

 

manna

 

PS As for unusual practices, you should work on the railway after a Good dumping of snow ????? 

[Sandhole]

In theory, she is there to shunt the District Engineer's sidings, and may have been involved with the C&W repair shop too. In practice, as almost none of the track in those areas can be included, she doesn't do a lot. Looks nice though.

Damn Straight!

But then, I have a 'Thing' about Sentinels both steam and diesel!

[great northern]

The W1 has now come to a stand at Platform 6.

while the A3 leaves from Platform 2.

These wider views are really helpful. Even the absence of any backdrop on this one isn't really noticeable.

[great northern]

I missed out one of the photos of 60700.

and I thought we might like a close up of an Artic Twin.

[Sandhole]

I missed out one of the photos of 60700.

700 5.JPG

and I thought we might like a close up of an Artic Twin.

artic twin.JPG

Your Baltic looks a lot less battered than mine!!!

That 'Steel Twin' is lovely! Is it a Phoenix 'Special' kit?

My mate Mike got me one of these kits when they did the big sell off. I'll have to get my A**e in gear and start it!

Just done another BSL, LMS this time, so I've got my eye in so to speak.

The black and white Baltic shot was pure joy!!!

                    Chris.

[Sandhole]

While I'm on, so to speak, a thought occurred.

You have a quite superb locomotive roster. Do you have any 'Daft' locos?

I have in mind Retford's Brunswick Green Bugatti nosed P2. Looks great!!

I have a Hornby 'Cock' and the bits of a K's Bugatti P2 to do the same!!

Long term project. Time and the Big C permitting, I'll give it a crack!!

Got to do it, it is a fearsome piece of kit in BR green!!!

Right, go and see if my undercoat has dried.

                         Chris.

[geoff west]

The W1 has now come to a stand at Platform 6.

700 north.JPG

while the A3 leaves from Platform 2.

67 leaving.JPG

These wider views are really helpful. Even the absence of any backdrop on this one isn't really noticeable.

 

I think the wider views really do make a big difference Gilbert.

[great northern]

Your Baltic looks a lot less battered than mine!!!

That 'Steel Twin' is lovely! Is it a Phoenix 'Special' kit?

My mate Mike got me one of these kits when they did the big sell off. I'll have to get my A**e in gear and start it!

Just done another BSL, LMS this time, so I've got my eye in so to speak.

The black and white Baltic shot was pure joy!!!

                    Chris.

The twin is Phoenix, getting on 20 years old now.

[great northern]

While I'm on, so to speak, a thought occurred.

You have a quite superb locomotive roster. Do you have any 'Daft' locos?

I have in mind Retford's Brunswick Green Bugatti nosed P2. Looks great!!

I have a Hornby 'Cock' and the bits of a K's Bugatti P2 to do the same!!

Long term project. Time and the Big C permitting, I'll give it a crack!!

Got to do it, it is a fearsome piece of kit in BR green!!!

Right, go and see if my undercoat has dried.

                         Chris.

No, nothing daft, as I target all available resources to what is still needed, and there is plenty of that, mainly passenger and goods stock now. I have to keep Peter employed too. There will always be something more I can find to enhance the layout, I'm sure of that.

[great northern]

Control can now start to get more coal trains through on the Up, the next one running Class H, though behind a 9F.

Again we take advantage of the longer view.

but still also have the more traditional going away shot from closer range.

[great northern]

Time for another goods on the Down side, this one being a Clarence Yard- Niddrie Class C. It is hauled by another clunky Bachmann V2, though this one got a better paint job many years ago. It doesn't really disguise the failings of the thing though, and the new tooling doesn't seem to be getting any further forward in the production queue.

I did think of hiding it under the roof completely, but that would have been a bit extreme.

[Northroader]

Time for another goods on the Down side, this one being a Clarence Yard- Niddrie Class C. It is hauled by another clunky Bachmann V2, though this one got a better paint job many years ago. It doesn't really disguise the failings of the thing though, and the new tooling doesn't seem to be getting any further forward in the production queue.

V2 1.JPG

V2 2.JPG

I did think of hiding it under the roof completely, but that would have been a bit extreme.

But it IS a V2!

[Mallard60022]

No, nothing daft, as I target all available resources to what is still needed, and there is plenty of that, mainly passenger and goods stock now. I have to keep Peter employed too. There will always be something more I can find to enhance the layout, I'm sure of that.

Gilbert does not have any 'daft' loco's, however he has been known to allow one or two 'unusual' machines to grace his rails. Many, many pages back there may be some lurking?

O.V. Bulleid

[great northern]

Gilbert does not have any 'daft' loco's, however he has been known to allow one or two 'unusual' machines to grace his rails. Many, many pages back there may be some lurking?

O.V. Bulleid

Yes indeed, from the far South to the sometimes frozen North they have come. And we once had some blue Pacifics, and apple green ones too.

[Sandhole]

Gilbert does not have any 'daft' loco's, however he has been known to allow one or two 'unusual' machines to grace his rails. Many, many pages back there may be some lurking?

O.V. Bulleid

Thanks. 

I'll have a look.

           Chris.

[great northern]

An interlude of more humble black engines now follows, commencing with another goods plodding along the Down slow, with a GN cab 02 doing the pulling.

The next engine wasn't humble in its heyday, but is close to the end of its days now. This Derby based Compound is on another East - Leicester local.

I think that bus must have broken down.