Elvinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Mike, I am not a newcomer and I use top quality Gaugemasters. Of course I oil my locos properly and run in as described. I have no derailmants in general as my track is properly laid. I have been involved in the hobby for at least 30 years and have never seen anything like the problems that occur with Dapol. To me they are the Ladas of the model railway world except that they are not cheap. I will say that I have had less trouble with their diesels, but have still had 2 Hymeks die. One melted its bogie. I have also had class 73 problems with split gears and wires coming unsoldered. Two other good things Dapol did were the Autocoach and giving Farish a kick up the backside and motivating them to come up with new and better locos and coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 ......wires coming unsoldered. Out of idle curiosity is that the wires coming astray, or actually getting hot enough that they unsolder themselves....? Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 When a new loco is purchased for over 100 pounds it should work and work for years period. It should work reliably for a damn sight longer than a year when that price! Of course it's debatable a loco's lifespan, but I'd contend that a having a loco last a lifetime is not unreasonable. Of course, reasonable standard maintenance is needed there! But the sceptic in me would say manufacturers need some failures in time to get some repeat sales... Hope you have no trouble getting your cash back - I'm sure you won't have any bother. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Out of idle curiosity is that the wires coming astray, or actually getting hot enough that they unsolder themselves....? Cheers, Alan No just coming adrift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It should work reliably for a damn sight longer than a year when that price! Of course it's debatable a loco's lifespan, but I'd contend that a having a loco last a lifetime is not unreasonable. Of course, reasonable standard maintenance is needed there! But the sceptic in me would say manufacturers need some failures in time to get some repeat sales... Hope you have no trouble getting your cash back - I'm sure you won't have any bother. Cheers, Alan Hope not Al. I sent it back to Gaugemaster today. Hoping to get it changed for a (Farish) B1, as they are great locos. I have one in early BR black already but the LNER one looks too good to resist. It is such a shame about the Brit. My friend has a similar situation except his was like mine straight away. His came from an Ebay seller who luckily had another one. His new one hasn't really been run yet, just tested. To say I am p'd off about this is an understatement. I should never have trusted the reviews. Talking of reviews, in Model Rail they reviewed both B1s side by side and their review sample of the Dapol one was even faulty. I would encourage everyone who has a Brit to run it a lot before their guarantee runs out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So far, the only real problem I've had with my Brit is that it ran off and joined the old rail union ASLEF. (As in AS LEFt my train behind.) Not sure where the problem is, but it doesn't like my Farish Mk1s... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Funny that! All you need to do is give the coupling a bit of a bite and it will bend it enough to couple properly. Either that or use some pliers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted January 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2011 Mike, I am not a newcomer and I use top quality Gaugemasters. Of course I oil my locos properly and run in as described. I have no derailmants in general as my track is properly laid. I have been involved in the hobby for at least 30 years and have never seen anything like the problems that occur with Dapol. To me they are the Ladas of the model railway world except that they are not cheap. Apologies for offending you, but I ain't psychic so I wasn't to know your experience or the conditions you run your trains under Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Funny that! All you need to do is give the coupling a bit of a bite and it will bend it enough to couple properly. Either that or use some pliers. Thanks for that. I just wasn't sure which one it was, since it was the first time I'd coupled anything to it. But yes, I'll try that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Apologies for offending you, but I ain't psychic so I wasn't to know your experience or the conditions you run your trains under Fair enough Mike. I'm not offended, it's just that the usual stuff that we do with our new locos doesn't stop Dapol engines from dying! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks for that. I just wasn't sure which one it was, since it was the first time I'd coupled anything to it. But yes, I'll try that... It's just the slight height difference that causes the problem. With NEM couplings it is a doddle to fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So far, the only real problem I've had with my Brit is that it ran off and joined the old rail union ASLEF. (As in AS LEFt my train behind.) Not sure where the problem is, but it doesn't like my Farish Mk1s... I had to bend up the two chamfered prongs on the end of the NEM coupler (when removed from the socket). It sat low before this, and the Mk1s are a touch high... .... = a lot of left behind coaches..! Cheers, Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Last night a friend of mine brought round two American diesels mabe by Lifelike. To see them close up and working was incredible. It is true that they put our stuff to shame. They are silent, totally smooth runners and even the couplings work properly and are inobtrusive. They are also able to be operated by magnets for proper shunting. They cost him £17 and £20 on Ebay. Might be the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Last night a friend of mine brought round two American diesels mabe by Lifelike. To see them close up and working was incredible. It is true that they put our stuff to shame. They are silent, totally smooth runners and even the couplings work properly and are inobtrusive. They are also able to be operated by magnets for proper shunting. They cost him £17 and £20 on Ebay. Might be the way to go. Can I ask a quick question. How many US steam locos still have solid back spoked wheels? Because Bachmann are still doing it. And it takes a lot away... [i'm not that interested in US engines, but I'm always looking for suitable chassis for conversion.] The same is true of some of the Japanese locos. Yes, they might do diesels (or electric locos, or DEMUs very well, but for steam locos... I think I'll pass... Except maybe some of the ones with Boxpox wheels. It's just a shame I haven't got more Southern what if's to look at... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm not sure, but take a look at this beauty: http://www.modeltrainplace.com/images/uploads/letteredshay.jpg and yes, that is N gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 Last night a friend of mine brought round two American diesels mabe by Lifelike. To see them close up and working was incredible. It is true that they put our stuff to shame. They are silent, totally smooth runners and even the couplings work properly and are inobtrusive. They are also able to be operated by magnets for proper shunting. They cost him £17 and £20 on Ebay. Might be the way to go. I bought a few Lifelike locos in the past for chassis cannibalising and although the running was very good, the bodies were nothing special and certainly not as good as modern UK N in terms of detail. They ran very well and had plenty of weight in them, but again I am not sure they are that much better than modern UK N diesels in terms of running. No contest in terms of price! Couplings - we are starting to get there with Farish and Dapol supplying buckeyes which are much less obtrusive. If/when an NEM version of the microtrains type coupling becomes available then shunting should be much easier. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm not sure, but take a look at this beauty: http://www.modeltrai...etteredshay.jpg and yes, that is N gauge. It's a nice looking loco but the picture make it look as if the detail is not massively greater than that available in UK outline N. It also has an RRP of about £125. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I bought a few Lifelike locos in the past for chassis cannibalising and although the running was very good, the bodies were nothing special and certainly not as good as modern UK N in terms of detail. They ran very well and had plenty of weight in them, but again I am not sure they are that much better than modern UK N diesels in terms of running. No contest in terms of price! Couplings - we are starting to get there with Farish and Dapol supplying buckeyes which are much less obtrusive. If/when an NEM version of the microtrains type coupling becomes available then shunting should be much easier. Cheers, Mike I haven't noticed Farish supplying Buckeys? I know Dapol do, but they cannot be coupled unless you lift one over another which is pretty useless unless used in a fixed rake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It's a nice looking loco but the picture make it look as if the detail is not massively greater than that available in UK outline N. It also has an RRP of about £125. A better picture here. http://www.atlasrr.com/nloco/nshay2.htm All the gearing works also. This can be purchased from one online store for about 83 quid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Good old Gaugemaster refunded my money when I returned the Brit. Not the cheapest shop (atlthough one of the cheapest for the Brit) but good customer service! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Richardson Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 My pair of Britannias have so far performed faultlessly. Britannia herself has done about 20 hours on the test track and a little layout time- it is happy with 9" curves but not 8.9" curves! This one will either gain a Stratford Royal engine white cab roof or a change of identity- one of my earliest photos was 70033 Charles Dickens on Kingmoor shed in July 1965, still with its original handrails. 70004 is lighly weathered, and will get a little more. It completed a day of exhibition running before Christmas with only one problem- a ham-fisted operator picked it up by the tender after derailing it by changing a point underneath it and the drive shaft popped out. It sat on the station platform for 10 mins (poor operating) waiting for me to come back as he didn't know how to fix it. The shaft popped back with no problem, with the aid of a long slender screwdriver. On oiling the worm- the long needle on some recent oil capsules will reach the back of the worm housing through the cab- but will it then actually get enough oil into the right place? Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Dapol Britannia 2: Well I've now managed to obtain a second Dapol Britannia, at a much cheaper price than the first one (30 odd % lower ). My experiences with it are rather interesting and worth sharing: This one is "Robin Hood" 70038 and straight from the box it was a pretty mediocre runner . One pickup wire was already frayed and broke fairly rapidly, and even before this pickup was notably poorer than my first loco. The whole chassis had a very tight spot on every rotation of the wheels, together with a lateral wobble when going round RH curves. Given that it was cheap, I decided to have a go at tweaking it. The first job was to try and get that pesky boiler off. The only person i've heard of actually managing this is the forum's Andy! However, I've now done it, and really it's not too bad - just everything is very tight which makes it alarming the first time you attempt it. You need also carefully ease out the handrails at the bottom at the cab end. Once the appropriate screws were removed (I recommend detaching the tender also) A little tugging and the boiler came off, revealing the worm. This looked pretty unlubricated to me, everything was largely dry - just a small amount of greasy lubricant at the bearings. I decided also went to go further and looked to remove the keeper plate. It turns out this is far easier than getting the boiler off, and as such would be my recommended way of lubricating the gearing. It simply clips on the base around an obvious clip to it's rear and another at the front. By pushing the front of the keeper plate toward the rear of the chassis and allowing it to bend slightly it can unclip and be easily removed. This reveals the gearing and chassis construction. The gearing looks to be durable - thick wide toothed gears, with the axle gears looking to be a single mounding on a plastic axle onto which the metal cast wheels attach. The "tungsten chassis block" is in fact two tungsten frames which are secured by two bolts per frame onto various plastic frame spacers. The gears run directly in holes on the tungsten plates, with the axles running in phosphor-bronze bearings. This is where I noted two problems. One was simple - a lack of lubrication on any of the gears.Two was more serious - the phosphor bronze bearings on several of the axles did not look to actually be at all attached to the tungsten (even by interference/press fit) - in particular the photo shows the middle axle top bearing loose and the rear axle lower bearing loose. These would slide laterally with the wheels as well as rotating with them. As such to me this looks wrong as the bearing effectively does nothing if it turns in the tungsten. If they are meant to be like this then I'd love an explanation of how they are meant to work... ...presumably the bearing will potentially gradually wear the tungsten frames over time or be worn itself in the wrong manner... ...if so I'm inclined to investigate if tungsten will take solder.... As such I've experimentally carefully run a microscopic dot of cyano in to secure one of the loose bearings only as an experiment. As such I've seen no ill effects, if anything it did immediately help. With regards the stiffness on wheel rotations, this has been cured. I loosened the two securing bolts on one side of the tungsten frames and within the slop (not much) pushed it to move a fraction to help square up the chassis (the front wheelset originally looked angled relative to the axis of the chassis - the photo again shows this - note the angle of the lower front wheel relative to the tungsten frame - they aren't parallel). This cured the tightness. The wobble was reduced to virtually nothing by swapping over the traction tyres from one side of the loco to the other - it may be that one isn't that consistent in terms of thickness and it's now on in a way that affects running less. I also took the wheelsets out of the tender and cleaned off apparent residue from the blackening process, which (together with removing and resoldering the failed loco-tender conducting wire) improved pickup. The motor on this loco seems pretty solid - I've had no problems (yet!) with slowing and surging that I experienced with the first britannia (which has finally settled down) - which does back up my supposition that the brushes were at fault and possibly soft, and that this newer loco being from a different production batch doesn't suffer. The loco now runs on ~90mA at 3/4 speed and is getting smoother and quieter the more I run it. I thought this would be of interest to those owning a Britannia, or anyone experiencing problems with one. This loco (assuming it continues to work and improve) is even more in need of the cosmetic changes I did to my first loco featureed further back in this thread - the wheels seem more silvered than the first, and the bogie wheels have been painted to match which to my eye looks bizarre. Whilst Dapol have painted the motions' retaining screws (helps, but I have a superior solution brewing....) they haven't painted the crosshead which stands out in black plastic. Fortunately all are easy upgrades with a touch of paint. Regards, Alan P.s. Yes, it probably wasn't fit for purpose as delivered, and yes, I could have sent it back for replacement, but doing a little work on it has been very insightful into the current chassis design Dapol are using (which largely looks solid, apart from the potentially dubious bearing fit) and some of it's potential problems. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Thanks for another extremely informative assessment. I haven't taken the plunge with a Brit yet (saving my meagre funds for the Hall) but I may in the future and this looks like a very useful guide on how to fettle these beasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Thing is though is that you shouldn't have to do this to a brand new locomotive, it's certainly not something I would want to do straight out of the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Thing is though is that you shouldn't have to do this to a brand new locomotive, it's certainly not something I would want to do straight out of the box. True. Sadly, I've come to expect it these days . As I alluded to, but perhaps was not explicit enough about - IMHO I would not recommend anyone who is not confident in doing such work to undertake it on a product in warranty*, and instead to send it back if you feel there is a problem. From a personal perspective I know that given experience most problems can generally be sorted out within an hour or two unless there is a terminal fault with a given component. Many issues seem to be curable with reassembly or adjustment within the slop and tolerances of the components. For me is far more efficient than parcelling it up, sending it back, awaiting a replacement only to find that's as bad or worse. I know many would disagree with this viewpoint, but life is busy and this is the most efficient way of moving forward for me. In this case it has also been very educational on current designs , and it will be interesting to see how Bachmann's forthcoming A1 pacific compares. Cheers, Alan * with the exception of removing the keeper plate in this instance, as IMHO this is a far easier way of oiling it than getting the boiler off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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