NeilMac Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Here is a question that has just come to me and I would be interested in finding the answer if anybody knows; Many classes of BR diesel started their lives in green livery and were then later painted blue, but which was the first class of diesel to miss the green period and have all examples of the class painted straight into the blue livery? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Here is a question that has just come to me and I would be interested in finding the answer if anybody knows; Many classes of BR diesel started their lives in green livery and were then later painted blue, but which was the first class of diesel to miss the green period and have all examples of the class painted straight into the blue livery? Class 50's I would think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 I'd say the class 50s - they were definitely blue & nothing was delivered between them & the class 47s (which came out in green). I'm less sure of the situation with regard to electrics - I think class 81-85 came out in electric blue, not rail blue. Can't be sure of the class 86s though. Any takers on that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I agree that it must have been the D400s (as they were then). They were introduced in 1967 by which time rail blue was the standard livery. Some members of other classes such as D1953-61 (later Class 47) were delivered in blue, but not until many others had been outshopped in green. The later D8000s (Class 20) were also delivered in blue, but I don't recall which ones without looking it up. The AL6 electrics (later Class 86) were originally electric blue. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The AL6 electrics (later Class 86) were originally electric blue. A contentious issue!. I tend to believe they were delivered in rail blue. The electric blue is certainly a lot lighter and this is highlighted in monochrome photos of the two versions together. At the time rail blue was 'the latest thing' so I can't imagine the flagship locos for the newly completed flagship mainline electrification scheme would be delivered in anything other than the latest blue- ie rail. The accompanying Mk2 coaches were in rail blue/grey and together with the AL6 became very much a part of the 'modern image.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 First Diesels - Class 50 First electrics - Class 87 HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The AL6 electrics were introduced in 1965. Surely that's too early for Rail Blue. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 So next extenstion of this has to be which were the last classes to be delivered entirely in BR Blue? I'm thinking 50's and 87's again as weren't some of the 56's delivered in Large Logo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 Class 74 were all rail blue from 'new' in 1967. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi, How about the JB's (73/1's) They came out in blue in late 66 IIRC and probably different enough to their predecessors to count as a new class/ Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Painted at the same time in the same works as the AL6s......possibly from the same pot:rolleyes: I hope not, they weren't the same colour! Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The class 86 were built at 2 different works. The AC loco group is 95% sure they were all delivered in rail blue but if they aint sure... Personally I think the class 86 were delivered in a darker blue than electric blue But I am not sure it was rail blue either. It seemed a richer, more royal blue than normal rail blue. Either way they were certainly repainted into the 'standard' rail blue later. I suppose you could say the class 81 were first all delivered in blue too - just not corporate rail blue. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi Stu They were both rail blue from new. Just dug through some old Modern Railways and you're correct. :icon_redface: It was the cast bits that threw me, should have read a bit rather than jumping to conclusions but at least that's my healthy exercise for the day So Vulcan Works were responsible for the first new buld Rail Blue loco's though quite which class ??? Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think we a have two things at play here. Use of rail blue as the main body colour and the application of the rail blue livery (i.e. the combination of the elements recognisable as the corporate image). It appears the AL6 delivery gives the first but not the second (retaining the details of the previous "Electric Blue" livery (cast lion emblem and numbers, no full yellow end) over rail blue paintwork). Mind you, didn't the AL6', 50's, 73's also initially have cast arrows of indecision rather than painted on/decaled so still "not quite" there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 On the Diesel and Electric on 35mm video's (Video 125) there is footage of class 86's in 1965. It looks like they may be rail blue with white cab roofs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 73s did not receive the cast arrows but new Bournemouth line EMUs did (4VEPs, 4REPs and 4TCs plus the 3TCs). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6975 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 So next extenstion of this has to be which were the last classes to be delivered entirely in BR Blue? I'm thinking 50's and 87's again as weren't some of the 56's delivered in Large Logo? Lots of the higher 56s were delivered in large logo, the very last 56135 was delivered in raifreight grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The first 73/1's didn't even have arrows when they first arrived. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Mind you, didn't the AL6', 50's, 73's also initially have cast arrows of indecision rather than painted on/decaled so still "not quite" there? The 50s never carried cast arrows, always transfer ones. They were, of course, on each cab not towards the middle of the locomotive. In addition, the B.R signs were of four different standard sizes on locos in the late 60s to mid 70s. The largest size which was used on the 31s (when positioned in the middle), Hymeks, 37s, 40s, Warships, 47s, 50s, Westerns, Deltics and AC electrics was discontinued from 1976/1977 and the next largest size (that used on the Type 2s, 33s and Peaks) was used instead. Many AC electrics carried cast B.R. signs of the larger size and the Class 50s given exams at Doncaster in 1977 carried the slightly smaller size in the middle of the body before they were named in 1978 (50009 and 50040 to list two). By the way, how can they be arrows of indecision? It shows which direction the train will travel on each track, nothing indecisive about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 So it seems that only two new classes (as opposed to rebuilds) were all delivered in standard Rail Blue with full yellow ends and white transfers - 50 and 87. Of these, the 50s were the only such class to come with pre-TOPS numbers (D400 etc) and the 87s must be the only TOPS numbered (87001 etc) class so treated. Does that mean Rail Blue should be reclassified as an unusual livery? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Does that mean Rail Blue should be reclassified as an unusual livery? Geoff Endacott No, because eventually everything was dipped in it... (or so it seemed at the time!) The above statistics are interesting, though! Growing up with BR Blue, it seemed to me like it was around for years... but it overlapped at either end of it's "Era" with many other liveries, so a "pure" BR Blue Era (where everything was blue) is surprisingly short, and is further divided in itself by the TOPS re-numbering... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 ... but it overlapped at either end of it's "Era" with many other liveries, so a "pure" BR Blue Era (where everything was blue) is surprisingly short, and is further divided in itself by the TOPS re-numbering... Strictly speaking you could say that a "pure" BR Blue Era never existed. Certainly some Class 20s were still green in 1979 and that was the year that APT-P started trials on the West Coast Main Line wearing what became Inter City Executive Livery. Probably the nearest period to all locos wearing B.R. blue is from late 1979 when the last Class 20s were repainted to late 1982 when the first 58 emerged in Railfreight grey. That's only three years.:icon_wow: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 No, because eventually everything was dipped in it... (or so it seemed at the time!) I thought it was all sprayed blue, then the ends were dipped in custard!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Probably the nearest period to all locos wearing B.R. blue is from late 1979 when the last Class 20s were repainted to late 1982 when the first 58 emerged in Railfreight grey. That's only three years. Is it even shorter than that? When did large logo blue first appear? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 So the number of complete years during which every locomotive in service on BR was painted standard Rail Blue would seem to be zero! Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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