Guest Max Stafford Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Recently I acquired the DJH starter kit for the Barclay 0-4-0 saddle tank from a friend. It was quite unexpected, but it was timely as I had just come up with the idea of NCB exchange sidings next to the mainline on part of my as yet unbuilt layout! The kit is on the whole very simple as far as body castings are concerned, but the chassis is quite a departure from what I'm familiar with. For a start, it is already pre-formed in brass, the axles pass through a set of milled hornblocks that pop into position on the frames. I've already checked them out on the Masterchassis and they seem to be in line. The model in its intended form is driven by a DS10 vertically mounted in the cab with the worm driving a two stage gear train that actually uses the chassis itself as the gearbox frame. It is quite novel and an intelligent use of limited space. However, I'm not utterly convinced of the suitability of the DS10 for the job of creeping along with a drag of 24T minerals and my thoughts are currently leaning towards hacking the chassis slightly to accommodate a Mashima 1020 and High level gearbox. I would use the same vertically mounted configuration as there isn't any other practical space to use other than the cab - I can always hide it with some figures! Has anyone else out there tried this kit? Slow, smooth running is an absolute must although with a short four-coupled wheelbase, that is a challenge all of its own! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 AFAIK, the design was underpowered as was. Don't know if there was a design with larger cylinders/ increased pressure, closet would be the larger 0-6-0ST class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I built one many years ago. Went together really nicely, runs slow + smooth (double reduction gearbox as standard) on the 3' of bent C+L track thats all I've got to run on! So I don't really know how well it would perform on a layout (something I really ought to get on with one day..) I converted mine to EM, nothing fancy just longer axles + washers. I did turn the rather crude flanges down to something closer to RP25, this was when I worked as a turner. Well worth spending the time getting rid of those moulded cabside handrails and nameplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Cure the electrical pickup issues of the short wheelbase by adding a Waterside-esque tender B) (Shunter riding shotgun on the side boards optional.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This version had 14" cylinders, there was a larger version which had 16", available from Mercian. I think the design dates from 1921. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This version had 14" cylinders, there was a larger version which had 16", available from Mercian. I think the design dates from 1921. Thanks for proving me wrong. As for the kit, I haven't got a scooby on the build but sounds like I may get one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I hacked one about years ago and freed up the cab by moving the motor and bodging the gears to fit. I can't comment on hauling power because it only ever got as far as test running on Kentigern before that bit the dust. I'll drag it out of the loft tomorrow and post a pic. It needs converting back to 00 anyway. Some outfit called Kingdom Kits used to do the slightly larger Barclay 0-4-0 - it's like the steam version of an MTK kit but with worse fit. I'll drag that out too and you can all wet yourselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I admit, I was a little sceptical of the DS10 as it seems a fast-running little motor, but if you say it's slow and smooth, then I'll take your word for it! I have Jamie's suggestion of the semi-permanent tender in mind too, that would certainly be a useful aid to running! I'll also be removing the cast nameplates from the tanksides, so anything else that might benefit from replacement will be sorted out at the same time. My next thoughts extend to the livery. So far, I've checked out three 1949-53 built Barclays and the liveries all seem quite conservative in NCB service - uniformly medium green with red buffer beams if that's all there is so be it, but I'd be interested if there were any other variations on the Scottish area. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Various greens or black seems to have been typical, Waterside lined (some of?) theirs with a red and yellow line - my plan for whenever I got to building one was to substitute BR mixed traffic lining. There's a nice Stenlake book "Scotland's last days of colliery steam" which covers the coalfields of Scotland, from the Barony to Manor Powis to Lady Victoria. Black and white mind you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks Jamie, I think I'll go and check if Stenlake's got a copy! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 5, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 5, 2009 From my experience with the class 15 a mashima 1020 is almost a drop-in replacement for the DS10 and only a quid more for loads of extra power and the assurity of a mashima .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Most of the Scottish Areas seem to have used green with yellow or white lettering. Certainly the Fife area locos were green, there are colour pics in Brochtie's 'The Weymss Private Railway'. The Waterside (West Ayr Area) locos were black with red and yellow lining, there were a couple of green ones about but these seem to have been transfers in from elsewhere. Some of the black locos look greenish in some colour photos but I think that's mostly down to dodgy film emulsions and colour balances. Most of the colour pics I have of Waterside engines are in magazines rather than books, I believe there's a Scottish edition of Irwell's (?) "Industrial Steam in Colour" in the pipeline. So far the Great Unfinished Projects Pile contains Waterside No 19 (DJH), Barony No 8 (Kingdom), Waterside No 17 (High Level) and Waterside No 18 (scratch). No layout or colliery mind, just four half-built engines ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cook Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I have built one of these which can be seen running on New Haden Colliery this weekend at Wolverhampton I converted it to EM gauge, by widening the frames, fitting it with an 80:1 gearbox which I built from worm and spur gears from branchlines, the motor is a 1024 Mashima open frame which sits vertical in the cab area,and still leaves room for a crew, one of the axles has beam compensation to ensure it always has four wheels on the rails and it has sprung pick ups on each wheel, and the buffers were change to 24" sprung industrials from Alan Gibson It currently uses the original wheels and coupling rods which came with the kit, their being no alternative at the time which would improve its appearance, Now available from Alan Gibson is the proper 8 spoke industrial wheels designed for this loco, which I have a set and just waiting the time to do it. Colour is simple all black Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Some shots of Scottish area Barclays here (some in preservation): http://jerrysgallery.fotopic.net/c1240019.html http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?m=pool&w=446053@N25&q=Barclay Note how the plain livery is lifted by the yellow lettering? 14" 0-4-0s seem to have been regarded as more than sufficient for most colliery work - they seem to have been at least as common as the 16" variant. What's often considered the 'NCB Standard', the Hunslet Austerity, was a big machine (the LNE/BR classified them as 4F), too powerful for the needs of most collieries which only wanted shunters. Pits with a significant drag to the exchange sidings usually had more powerful locos. Horses for courses. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Not sure if these will help or hinder the project, but at least they show the motor can be moved: Looking slightly battered after 11 years ( ) in the loft: Cab detail added from plasticard, I can't remember whether this was guessed or based on a photo. The hopper on the cab backsheet was a Waterside mod to go with the makeshift tenders. These are the original gears, I have no idea whatsoever where the gearbox came from though, sorry. It don't think it's homemade as it's actually square and I don't think it came with the kit as the original bearing holes are still in the frames. The frames have been widened for EM with homemade spacers. The gearbox (wherever it came from) is a tight fit so rebuilding for 00 might be interesting. I see a Mashima and new 80:1 gearbox in the offing. My recollection of its running charachteristics was that it was a bit jerky, but bear in mind that I've altered the chassis and my skills (sic) in that department have always been a bit suspect ! it weighs 190g with no extra weight added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Nice wee engine Stuart, it deserves to be reactivated! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 And now my next question. What would be the likely donor vehicle for a Waterside tender and was there an official diagram. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 And now my next question. What would be the likely donor vehicle for a Waterside tender and was there an official diagram. Dave. I've got a drawing of a "tender" that I can send you if you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 p39 On Glasgow and South Western Lines, Messrs Cross/Ian Allen. I think you have that one Dave? If not, I count 7 planks and a removed end door. (edit: it was to hand, and ...Last days of... isn't within reach) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks to both of you, and I will take that drawing Paul, thanks. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Nice wee engine Stuart, it deserves to be reactivated! Ta - it's been moved to the 'Do Next' box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Its actually an LNER design for the 4 wheel puggies it inherited from the NB. It can be adapted for extra coal space. PM your address and Ill send it down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Going by photos the DJH kit represents a post WW1 built locomotive as it has the square cut out to the cab side, on pre WW1 locos this was curved. A simple customisation to this kit would be to remove the upper section of the cab back sheet. Looking at photos I took in the 1970's the Ayrshire locos were black lined out, as were the the ones at Niddrie in Edinburgh. Fife locos were green including those at Kinneil as the colliery, though south of the Forth, was part of the Fife area. The locos at Polkemmet were black [and absolutely filthy!], though there was one 0-4-0ST painted green and later on one engine was painted NCB blue with a yellow bunker. For the NCB green I used LNER loco green on a 7mm Scale 0-4-0ST Barclay. The collieries I visited all used Barclays [Kinneil, Niddrie, Frances and Waterside], I can only remember seeing Austerities at Comrie plus one at Polkemmet. Polkemmet was well known because of the need to double head the trains up to the exchange sidings. The Waterside tenders were simply mineral wagons with the end door removed. Waterside 0-6-0T Barclay & Tender Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 As I commented in my earlier post some Barclays had no upper section to the back cab sheet. This would be a simple modification to the DJH Kit. No.29 at Frances Colliery [1970's] This was their spare engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 A couple of pics of my rather shiny Barclay! This was as built straight from the box. I wish I had: removed the name plate, replaced the molded handrails, removed the huge molded tension lock bar and toned down the paint a bit. Still, it was my first kit so i have learnt a few things! Sorry about the quality of the photos - I have a better camera now as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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