Heljan Westerns (new batch)

[Geoff Endacott]

No, it's not all entirely wrong, otherwise it wouldn't pass for a Western in the uninitiated hands.

But it is wrong from the cab door forwards. I someone could do replacement cab then I might be interested. However, the latest Heljan model is rather expensive to have to start hacking it about.

 

Geoff Endacott

[vac_basher]

Replacmente cabs?? No offence, but are you serious Geoff?

I really can't see many people taking a hacksaw to a £90 model....

[Geoff Endacott]

That's why I said it is rather expensive to start hacking it about. When they were £39 each new cabs might have been an option. So I think we get back to where I started. The Heljan Western is too expensive for a model which is fundamentally the wrong shape.

 

I wonder what Bachmann or Dapol would charge if someone was to commission a brand new model?

 

Geoff Endacott

 

 

[vac_basher]

Fair point you have Geoff.

I'd consider putting a hacksaw to a £39 model, but certainly not to a £79 piece of kit.

 

The question is, is there a market for a better Western? (I guess not, otherwise they'd have already done it)

[Steve K]

To be fair, Lima only got it to go around curves by modeling an undersized front fairing; I suspect that they'd have run into the same clearance issues as Heljan if they'd not done so.

I seem to recall that's Hornby's "solution" to this problem (I owned a Maroon Courier many years ago) was to make the bottom fairing part of the bogie. No clearance issues there - the whole thing swung around with the wheels!

[vac_basher]

There's a bit of a discussion going on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/24240-a-better-class-52-western/page__pid__243516#entry243516

 

I've noticed a certain retailer (Heljans official importer for the UK) are selling these new Westerns at £89. That's a full £10 more than some other models shops are sellling them at. I know, I know, some will say "If you can't afford it don't buy it" No disrespect to that certain retailer, as I was just making an observation.... But the question that springs to my mind is how come the official importer is charging more?

If you were to buy a new BMW wouldn't you expect to get a better deal at the offical BMW dealer, rather than at your local garage?

[Gwiwer]

List price versus discount. If you buy Hornby from Hornby you pay the full price but from any of the larger retailers (and a lot of smaller ones too) you'll get it for something less.

 

As I cannot build a better Western than Heljan I am happy to make a few judicious purchases here and there. One maroon FYE is in the mail from this batch. I know they're not quite right but the guts are better than the alternative Hornby version. Whether there is a way to mount one body on another chassis I'll leave for the surgeons!

[Mod6]

There's a bit of a discussion going on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/24240-a-better-class-52-western/page__pid__243516#entry243516

 

I've noticed a certain retailer (Heljans official importer for the UK) are selling these new Westerns at £89. That's a full £10 more than some other models shops are sellling them at.

 

And apparently £10 less than the RRP. Retailers obviously can't win can they? What they charge is their business, no doubt based on their own assessment of their business and supply and demand. As you say, nobody is being forced to buy at any price.

 

Now can we drop the playground economics please.

[vac_basher]

Fair play

[westerner]

I have to agree with Tim Shackleton in MRJ, it's very difficult to scale down the compound curves on the cab roof.

[Mod2]

Gents, please abide by the warning here about matters of opinion and the knee-jerk gainsaying of others' points. This topic is not to be treated as a sneaky way of continuing a discussion which will inevitably get heated.

 

Thanks.

[westerner]

Whoops sorry.

[jixer]

Getting back to the title of this thread... I would recommend that anybody thinking of buying the gloss maroon version from the new batch is prob best served by checking the actual model they are buying. Having received mine from a well known box shifter, and putting aside whether you actually like the gloss finish or not, there do appear to be some technical issues with the finish. Firstly, I'm not clear whether a gloss paint or a lacquer layer has been used - but whichever is the case, the finish can appear rather 'thick' and with the dreaded and very obvious 'orange peel' texture effect in the paint. Also, I'm not sure the curing process has been up to scratch, with the paint/lacquer sufficiently hardened. As when you take the model out of its new type plastic carrier, you'll find that there are very noticeable rub/depression marks on the front and rear, above the headcode, where the box has pressed on to the model (as it should) - but which has left very noticeable marks in the 'soft' paint finish. Having now had two of these in a row with these issues, and not being able to face a third exchange, I've abandoned the model and sent the last one back for a refund. Therefore, if poss, do try before you buy. I'm hoping this is just isolated to a batch within a batch? But who knows.

[vac_basher]

Jixer, do you have any photos of the models you had sent back?

I've got D1001 on order, due to arrive any moment now, but having read what you've said has made me a bit worried

[jixer]

No, sorry, there was no reason to take any pics. I wouldn't worry too much. If you've bought the item from a box shifter then they're all excellent at taking stuff back - and I believe they have to anyway under the distance selling regs (i.e. you have a certain amount of time to 'change your mind').

[Western Dave]

There's a bit of a discussion going on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/24240-a-better-class-52-western/page__pid__243516#entry243516

 

I've noticed a certain retailer (Heljans official importer for the UK) are selling these new Westerns at £89. That's a full £10 more than some other models shops are sellling them at. I know, I know, some will say "If you can't afford it don't buy it" No disrespect to that certain retailer, as I was just making an observation.... But the question that springs to my mind is how come the official importer is charging more?

If you were to buy a new BMW wouldn't you expect to get a better deal at the offical BMW dealer, rather than at your local garage?

 

I may be able to answer that. An an importer and distributor of products (nothing whatsoever to do with modeling or railways) when we sell direct we have to charge more than what you would pay one of our dealers because if you undercut the dealer they tend to get quite upset and more often than not they will drop your product(s). If we and a certain Heljan retailer was to sell at a price lower than the "box shifter" you the customer would go direct to the importer and then the box shifters would a) not be able to sell the product they have bought becuase they were not competitive enough and B) when this happended they would not bother to buy any more of that manufacturers product in the full knowledge that they would not be able to compete selling it. It's a very fine line with the importer having to commit to stock and achieve agreed sales rates with the manufacturer and the importer getting the right box shifters to sell the stock. The alternative is for the importer to do all the advertising and be the only place that you could purchase that product from and then we would be all complaining that it's not a competitive market and they are overcharging us.

[tarifa]

In view of the fact that the retailer is obliged to purchase his stock from the importer, I doubt that the importer is concerned with selling the wares at a higher price than other retailers (his customers) as he is making his profit in any event.

It's a very fine line with the importer having to commit to stock and achieve agreed sales rates with the manufacturer and the importer getting the right box shifters to sell the stock. The alternative is for the importer to do all the advertising and be the only place that you could purchase that product from and then we would be all complaining that it's not a competitive market and they are overcharging us.

[Karl]

Getting back to the title of this thread... I would recommend that anybody thinking of buying the gloss maroon version from the new batch is prob best served by checking the actual model they are buying. Having received mine from a well known box shifter, and putting aside whether you actually like the gloss finish or not, there do appear to be some technical issues with the finish. Firstly, I'm not clear whether a gloss paint or a lacquer layer has been used - but whichever is the case, the finish can appear rather 'thick' and with the dreaded and very obvious 'orange peel' texture effect in the paint. Also, I'm not sure the curing process has been up to scratch, with the paint/lacquer sufficiently hardened. As when you take the model out of its new type plastic carrier, you'll find that there are very noticeable rub/depression marks on the front and rear, above the headcode, where the box has pressed on to the model (as it should) - but which has left very noticeable marks in the 'soft' paint finish. Having now had two of these in a row with these issues, and not being able to face a third exchange, I've abandoned the model and sent the last one back for a refund. Therefore, if poss, do try before you buy. I'm hoping this is just isolated to a batch within a batch? But who knows.

 

 

Hopefully to answer this above post. It seems to me that you have been unlucky as I bought one yesterday and the finish on it is superb so if anyone is thinking of buying one then i would taken Jixer's advice to examine it first but it does seem that maybe it is a batch within the batch problem rather than a general issue.

[Downendian]

D1012 was one of my favourites, but alas never saw her in the form modelled by Heljan

 

Here's one of my collection of Firebrand at Woodborough in 1969 in Maroon full yellow ends, but yet to receive her distinctive square cab ventilator, in the form depicted by the current Heljan model

[vac_basher]

you'll find that there are very noticeable rub/depression marks on the front and rear, above the headcode, where the box has pressed on to the model (as it should) - but which has left very noticeable marks in the 'soft' paint finish.

 

I've finally had time to thoroughly examine my new Western....

I do sort of agree with Jixer. Although I wouldn't say the marks on my model are "very noticeable". In fact, I'd go as far as saying that on the one I got they're hardly noticeable at all. I think one really has to pay attention to notice them on mine. So maybe you, Jixer, were very unlucky getting 2 which were very bad.

 

I really like the finish on this model. As Jixer has said, the paint/lacquer is a bit thick in some places. Especially noticeable around the rivets on the fuel tank skirting. But it's ok, I can live with that.

There is a very slight "orange peal" effect on mine too, but I reckon it's no more than on any other non-gloss model. perhaps it's just slightly more noticeable because of the gloss finish....

One thing about this model is that I'm reluctant to handle it as it seems like the paint is still wet, which of course it's not

I hope gloss models become the way of the future. Although I wouldn't want all my loco's in ex-works condition. My D1001 is going to become D1062 in due course. So, for me, the finish on this is ideal for a preserved machine, such as is D1062.

 

Unlike on other Heljan models (eg. Class 33) the headcodes aren't changeable on these Westerns, as I believe they were on the earlier batches. As I've said mine will become a preserved engine, so this won't be an issue for me, although I'd imagine it may be a bit of a disappointment for others who want to model a particular working.

 

In all honesty, the only really not so possitive things I can say about this model is in regards to the front spoilers/skirts. They've supplied them in black. Such a shame they didn't provide them already painted, as I imagine it will be very difficult for anybody to find a near perfect match.

Also, the only other thing which disappoints me is that the lamp brackets aren't pre-fitted, nor are the holes for them already drilled.

 

All summed up, I think this is a really great model. Hopefully they'll do a gloss blue and/or green one sometime in the future.

 

Keep an eye on my layout Smugglers Lane, as I'll be posting some pics of my Western on there after I've fitted the buffer beam detail B)

 

Now, let me see what I can do about the break gear....

[SRman]

Are you sure the headcodes are not changeable? I have one of the first issue Westerns, Western Talisman, and that has the removable headcode "glasses" that allow the paper headcodes to be inserted. I am certainly wide open to correction here as I have no access to any of the newest model releases but I would not have thought Heljan would change the mouldings or fittings for this latest batch.

[vac_basher]

100% certain SRman.

When it arrived two of the headcodes had fallen out of mine in the box, so I was able to examine them thoroughly. The paper is stuck onto the "glass" from behind.

[Gwiwer]

The paper is stuck onto the "glass" from behind.

 

I thought that was true when D7093 arrived recently but it turns out the "paper" is actually a plastic film. It does cling pretty well to the plastic but also peels off cleanly when lifted with the point of a scalpel blade.

[owentherail]

I hope they do come off, the dots date it a bit late for me, OR ill have to find some clear plastic!!

[vac_basher]

Correct Giwiwer. Until now I hadn't realized they were plastic.

It's a shame they haven't included any alternative ones for the buyer to fit if they wish to do so.

 

While on the subjects of headcodes, I'm about to stick mine back in (they were loose in the box when it arrived), but I'm unsure which way around they should go. That is, are they supposed to read IAIC or IA76 at one end; and IC40 or 7640 at the other end?

Thanks in advance.

 

I've spent the past two evenings detailing mine. Even though I've been modelling for 20+ years I found allot of the detailing kit wasn't very useful....

The pipes are too big to fit in the predrilled holes on the buferbeam, so I've cut the ends of and glued them approximately where they should be.

 

I found the lamp irons totally useless. And the method of fitting them with a soldering iron, as the instructions explain, didn't work for me. I was unable to get enough heat into the lamp irons to make them melt into the body. I also found it was a very awkward operation (3 hands would have been very useful!). And at one stage the tip of my soldering iron touched the body. Fortunately the damage wasn't too bad and a bit of paint should do the trick. If I hadn't been so lucky it could have been a true disaster.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend fitting the lamp irons that way. When I was trying to push them in with the soldering iron they bent. In the end, I discarded them and fitted some spare ViTrain ones instead.

 

I found the break gear not to be of much use either. The holes on the bogies are too small for the parts to fit into. And as it comes it's all completely in the wrong position, overhanging the wheels by a good few millimeters - which I won't go into, as it has been well documented in others posts.

To try and make the break blocks sit where they should, I chopped the break gear up and have reassembled it in a different fashion (photos tomorrow when the glues dry). Although I can't say I've had much success with it. Hopefully somebody will do an etched kit for the break gear in the future....

 

The cab steps were easy to make and to fit.

 

Photos tomorrow, as promised.