Kadee Couplers

[Gilbert]

I agree with the sentiment but my experience is that you are using them intensively on a shunting layout or similar they are best left alone - especially the outside face - which is obviously the most visible....

Chris

[Dunsignalling]

I hope this is the appropriate place to ask this, I couldn't find anywhere better...

 

Does anybody have experience of weathering Kadee couplers? I found a thread on an American forum which seemed to recommend slapping paint on them by brush (I'm highly sceptical on that one), through airbrushing and then to powders. It didn't seem to have any real measure of success, only people saying "I did that and it didn't work" to pretty much every suggestion.

 

Those that I have applied to stock after weathering stand out like a sore thumb and I just want to tone them down a bit so they are less noticeable.

 

Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Roy

I've never tried, but I know people who have and I have absorbed a couple of dos and don'ts (and a few choice expletives).

 

1. You obviously need to keep paint etc. away from any moving part you want still to be a moving part afterwards. This rules out using an airbrush or spray-can and you need to be doubly cautious with the NEM coupler heads (#17, 18, 19, 20) on which almost everything moves one way or another! You can take the shine off the plastic part of these with careful use of a fibreglass brush.

 

2. The only bits to which I think you can safely apply paint/varnish are the shaft behind the knuckle and any external surfaces of the knuckle itself that don't make contact when coupling.

 

3. In my experience, Kadees do "dull down" of their own accord, especially if you use their powdered graphite lubricant "Grease 'em", which is invaluable for preventing any binding; but it does take time. 

 

Hope this helps

 

John

Edited September 21, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[brian777999]

Has anybody fitted Kadees to the modern Hornby GWR clerestory coaches (not the shorter Triang/Hornby type). A 146 would probably suffice but how to attach it to the bogies ?

[Budgie]

A 146 would probably suffice but how to attach it to the bogies ?

Have you thought of mounting it on the body?

[john flann]

I've used NEM #19 or 20 added them to the bogies mounted on card. It works.

Edited September 22, 2017 by john flann

[brian777999]

Have you thought of mounting it on the body?

 

I thought mounting them on the bogies would enable them to negotiate tighter curves. Mounting on the body would be easier though.

[woodenhead]

Anyone found a solution to using no #19s with modern Bachmann mineral wagons that have the straight not cranked coupling - I've found them to be too low and catching on the magnet - is it simply bending the pin more?

 

The older cranked ones are easier to manage by pulling the NEM socket down a millimetre or two from it's socket.

[Dunsignalling]

Anyone found a solution to using no #19s with modern Bachmann mineral wagons that have the straight not cranked coupling - I've found them to be too low and catching on the magnet - is it simply bending the pin more?

 

The older cranked ones are easier to manage by pulling the NEM socket down a millimetre or two from it's socket.

Take out the pocket and superglue a #20 directly into the dovetail opening. Works for me.

 

John

[tomparryharry]

I've used the plier-type adjustment tool to work just fine. The radii is variable. I'd respectfully suggest you buy (or make) a setting jig, so all of the rolling stock should come out at the same height. When fitting the Kadee to proprietary UK stock, it's best to ensure that there is an 'imaginary' straight line, from the buffer front, coming across the back cheek of the Kadee, to the opposite buffer.

 

In the UK context, the Kadee looks quite unprototypical, not something I'd choose. However, on the shunting plank, it's a whole lot of fun. Strangely, when shunting it works very prototypical. Fly shunting, propelling, etc.

 

I use #18's, sometimes #19's. There is a 'raised' model, but I'll dig out the number.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ian.

 

PS. Forgot to add. If your couplings are 'drooping', try a thin sliver of tape under the NEM adaptor. You might have to fiddle a bit, but you'll get there.

Edited October 12, 2017 by tomparryharry

[woodenhead]

Take out the pocket and superglue a #20 directly into the dovetail opening. Works for me.

 

John

I'm trying not to go down a permanent route but I'll bear it in mind, I know some of my locos might need such an approach.

[ejstubbs]

Anyone found a solution to using no #19s with modern Bachmann mineral wagons that have the straight not cranked coupling - I've found them to be too low and catching on the magnet - is it simply bending the pin more?

 

I've not got any of those particular wagons but I have found that NEM Kadees can sometimes droop a little due to being a trifle loose in the NEM pocket.  Whether that's because rolling stock manufacturers don't follow the NEM pocket standard closely enough, or because Kadee's swallowtails are a fraction too thin, or an evil combination of both, I don't know.  I've found that a shim of 10thou plasticard* under the swallowtail usually does the trick, although you may find that you need to tweak the trip pin slightly as well, per tomparryharry's advice.

 

* For some unfathomable reason   Slater's don't seem to do 10thou plasticard in black, which is a pain.  I ended up having to pay rather more to get the Evergreen 10thou sheets in black if I wanted to be able to cut and fit shims without also having to wield the paintbrush 

Edited October 12, 2017 by ejstubbs

[Dunsignalling]

I've not got any of those particular wagons but I have found that NEM Kadees can sometimes droop a little due to being a trifle loose in the NEM pocket.  Whether that's because rolling stock manufacturers don't follow the NEM pocket standard closely enough, or because Kadee's swallowtails are a fraction too thin, or an evil combination of both, I don't know.  I've found that a shim of 10thou plasticard* under the swallowtail usually does the trick, although you may find that you need to tweak the trip pin slightly as well, per tomparryharry's advice.

 

* For some unfathomable reason   Slater's don't seem to do 10thou plasticard in black, which is a pain.  I ended up having to pay rather more to get the Evergreen 10thou sheets in black if I wanted to be able to cut and fit shims without also having to wield the paintbrush 

I use thin card (Parkside wagon kit labels are good) for shimming NEM pockets, pre-blackened with a permanent marker pen.

 

John

[Suzie]

Anyone found a solution to using no #19s with modern Bachmann mineral wagons that have the straight not cranked coupling - I've found them to be too low and catching on the magnet - is it simply bending the pin more?

 

The older cranked ones are easier to manage by pulling the NEM socket down a millimetre or two from it's socket.

If the NEM pocket is the wrong height I normally use #16 - not sure what the new version's number is though.

[tomparryharry]

I've had a little look at the Kadee website. If like me, you're using NEM 362 sockets generally it's couplings  #17-#20. You can make a bespoke Kadee, which is the #5. I always keep a couple of these, because life's like that! If you're suffering from the 'droop' effect, try cutting a slice of sellotape over the Kadee shank. Cut off any excess. Then, you can deliberately trim off the sellotape, such that you 'angle' the shank, with a sloping bias either upward or downwards. There is a pin at the shank, which can normally alleviate any attitude angle. I wouldn't recommend superglue, it's the last act of a desperate man. Kadees mention on their own pages that you persevere with the couplings until it works right for your own circumstances. " Don't accept poor performance." If one of mine fail, it's mostly because I've done something wrong, or it's damaged.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ian.

[w124bob]

Regarding weathering Kadee's, fine brush, Humbrol 62 and a paper towel. Remove most of the paint from the brush and just wipe over the various coupler faces and any exposed coupler shank. Another tip, don't bother with Kadee graphite just use a soft pencil drawn over the inside of the box or if already installed scrape a bit of lead into the box with a craftknife. I've done hundreds on my US stock, a little excess paint stiffening the knuckle hinge is usually eased by wiggling the thing a bit.

[BR60103]

Is there a check tool for tension lock couplings? I would like to check stock as it comes out of the box because some of the OEM couplings look to have a droop.

[Dunsignalling]

If the NEM pocket is the wrong height I normally use #16 - not sure what the new version's number is though.

#16 was discontinued several years ago. I still have a couple of packets, but I don't think I'll ever use them.

 

The closest equivalent at the time was the #36, which is still available. I especially like these, but some find them fiddly to assemble. 

 

The modern equivalent in the "Whisker" range is the #146 and, if you need a narrow draft box like those of the #16 or #36 to clear brake pipes etc. replace the standard draft box with the #252.

 

A tip for those unfamiliar with the various generations of Kadees is that couplers with [EDIT] 2-digit numbers ending in the same digit share the same height and length. i.e. 16 = 26 = 36 = 146. There was also a #46 for a while, but that was directly replaced by the #146.

 

I have to confess to removing NEM mounts with very little "provocation" - the self-contained Kadees both look and work better IMHO.

 

John

 

EDIT: Note that the #5 does not conform to this - its newer equivalents end in 8.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

I have read all the recent posts on Kadee #5 with interest.  In the light of them, I was wondering how I could use up my stock of #5s, as indeed I have found them too short for most of my long wheelbase chassis rolling stock, without having the gear box overtly overhanging.  Well during a deep tidy up session in the railway room over the weekend, I came across a box of wagons I had forgotten about.  These were from my old days of thinking I would go down the route of three link couplings!!

 

There was about 15 short wheel based trucks; a mix of POW and Conflats, a great find!  Historically, they have all had their tension hook couplings removed and some have had the 3-links added.  So I had brief ponder on what to do with them, being useless coupling wise on our layout, and then had a light bulb moment - they would make great trucks for a shunting puzzle in our goods yards.

 

A quick check reviled that the #5 work perfectly on them as the trucks have really short buffers.  So I have now converted a few already, really easy as the gear box is at a perfect height when glued to the chassis underside; no packing or cutting required, phew!

 

But here is the problem; the trucks are all quite light weight, even replacing the steel weight with a lead stip.  On the layout when shunting with a Class 08 at slow speed, the trucks tend to just get pushed along without Kadees actually coupling up.  The trucks all run very freely.

 

What is going to be the best way to solve this problem, specifically if I want to use these trucks as the rolling stock for the shunting puzzle?  I do not want to make the trucks so heavy that they cannot be pulled up my inclines when formed into a rake of trucks.  Is there an optimum dead weight for a truck and the operation of Kadee?

For open wagons, a load is the easy way to add weight, if you want to run them empty, it's a bit more tricky.

 

One tip that works is to obtain some thin (1mm) lead sheet (I got mine from Eileen's Emporium); cut a piece the same size as the wagon floor, scribe it to represent planks, and glue it in.

 

John

[tomparryharry]

Is there a check tool for tension lock couplings? I would like to check stock as it comes out of the box because some of the OEM couplings look to have a droop.

Sorry David. Is that a Kadee or Hornby/Bachmann type?

 

Ian.

[Dunsignalling]

I'm trying not to go down a permanent route but I'll bear it in mind, I know some of my locos might need such an approach.

It's often not as "permanent" as you might think. I've found the bond can usually be broken with a bit of twisting. If not, there's always Deluxe Materials Glue Buster (other equivalents are presumably available).

 

John  

[Gilbert]

 

 

I have to confess to removing NEM mounts with very little "provocation" - the self-contained Kadees both look and work better IMHO.

 

John

Most Bachmann short wagon NEM mountings can be removed by undoing the screw below the axle. A standard whisker in a KD box can usually be fitted to the underside of the frame - there is a raised line which coincidentally often means the standard KD head is correctly positioned relative to the face of the buffers - if it is later removed you just leave either a small glue mark or a hole where it was screwed on. Boxed couplings work much better so it is worth the faff. In addition on my shunting plank I use a Brake van with a boxed coupling with any locos where the NEM mounted version is at all compromised..this give virtually 100% success.

[Dunsignalling]

Most Bachmann short wagon NEM mountings can be removed by undoing the screw below the axle. A standard whisker in a KD box can usually be fitted to the underside of the frame - there is a raised line which coincidentally often means the standard KD head is correctly positioned relative to the face of the buffers - if it is later removed you just leave either a small glue mark or a hole where it was screwed on. Boxed couplings work much better so it is worth the faff. In addition on my shunting plank I use a Brake van with a boxed coupling with any locos where the NEM mounted version is at all compromised..this give virtually 100% success.

On older Bachmann wagons, the NEM mount is integral and has to be cut off.

 

John

[ejstubbs]

Is there a check tool for tension lock couplings?

 

Not really, largely because there is no standard for OO tension locks.  See this recent thread.

 

You can standardise on a single manufacturer's TLC eg the Bachmann one, which is fairly readily available.  This can often mean taking a knife to other manufacturers' stock, though, which some folks don't like doing.

 

Or you can just fettle the couplings on each item of stock until they work well with the other stock they'll be coupled up to.  Droopy couplings can often be fixed with a shim of plasticard (see my post #415 above regarding a similar issue that sometimes arises with NEM Kadees).

 

Or you can throw the blasted things away and fit something better.

Edited October 13, 2017 by ejstubbs

[BR60103]

My query was inspired by droopy Kadee NEMs -- wodering whether the original couplng was also drooping.

 

I often see pictures in reviews of new products where the coupler is going downhill.

[Gilbert]

On older Bachmann wagons, the NEM mount is integral and has to be cut off.

 

John

and quite often at the wrong height....