Suzie Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I find that the Kadee height gauge works really well for 4mm stock if you are happy to mount the coupler below the buffer beam. This is not the correct prototype height where stock that is fitted with buckeyes have them fitted to the buffer beam and not below it, but there is a lot of work in most cases to set the coupler higher, and since most stock does not prototypically have buckeye couplers the difference in height is pretty irrelevant. There are quite a few compromises to be made when fitting kadees to UK stock, but on balance they look a lot better than tension lock and are much more functional than the vast majority of the alternatives (only big 'D' tension locks are more reliable in my experience). If you are a bit worried about the height you can put an underset coupler (#147) on the height gauge in place of the supplied (#5) and match to that - generally then a long underset coupler (#141) will be the easiest to fit in most cases and the underset couplers (#141/#144/#147) will give a slightly more realistic appearance without compromising ease of fitting and operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john flann Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 (edited) AS requested Kadees #20/ or 21 as added to Hornby coach bogies. The long clerestory is on the R in the second image. Edited November 5, 2017 by john flann 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 HTK_0964-1.jpg AS requested Kadees #20/ or 21 as added to Hornby coach bogies. HTK_0966-1.jpg The long clerestory is on the R in the second image. Hi John I can't quite tell from your photos if the coupler head is at the same height as a prototypical buckeye coupler fitted to UK coaching stock but I assume it is. There seem to be two ways of using Kadee couplers in a UK context. Either to regard them as a purely model coupler like any other model automatic couplers or to use them to represent, more or less to scale or at least in the right place, the AAR couplers quite widely used on Britain's railways. The latter seems to be what you've done with your coaching stock . There are obviously pros and cons to each approach. Because "Buckeye" AARs were very little used, except on coaching stock, they're not prototypical beyond that (though they are now used, generally within sets and without buffers, on some modern freight stock) and having the coupler heads at buffer beam height would make them more obtrusive than tucked beneath it. The rest of Western Europe didn't really use AAR couplers (though there was an attempt by the UIC to standardise on the Willison coupler which is used in Russia and elsewhere and was used on some suburban services in Paris ) so for modellers the second option didn't apply. The NEM pocket was designed for a range of non-prototypical automatic couplers (there is a separate NEM for prototypical drawhook mountings in the buffer beam) These are always below the buffer beam which puts them at a lower height than the NMRA gear box. For that reason the Kadee NEM couplers are overset to bring the head to the same NMRA standard height.that enables the same trip pin and uncoupling magnets to be used. I have seen it argued that, because 4mm/ft scale has a higher buffer beam than European H0, the NEM standard coupler pocket should also be higher. I think that is a red herring as the NEM standard doesn't just apply to H0; it also applies to S scale so is fine for OO or EM where its relatively lower position against the buffer beam and the slightly larger scale makes it somewhat less obtrusive. I've used them for years wih European H0 stock and far prefer them to any other coupler on offer especially for shunting. They are a bit sensitive to height so unwanted uncoupling across less than perfect baseboard joints does happen and the somewhat vaguer tracking of four wheel wagons made to coarser standards than RP25 etc. can also be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Quick couple of questions about these couplers. Why do people upgrade? Do they look more realistic, better for shunting or what? I'm just undecided about converting some of my coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Quick couple of questions about these couplers. Why do people upgrade? Do they look more realistic, better for shunting or what? I'm just undecided about converting some of my coaches. Certainly not because they are cheaper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I'd suggest that you establish which height works for you, and stick with that. If you intend to cut or remove the Kadee, your concerns about whether the coupling is drooping is purely academic: Your intention is to replace the coupling. I've been running a shunting plank for a number years, and all fitting a selection of Kadees. These run from No.5, to No.19. Once you follow the basics, they run very well. Naturally, there are variations, but knuckle height is important. As we all know, the operation of the layout is only as good as the constituent parts. If you want to enjoy Kadee, try using the web pages. There is a lot of information on the site. Some UK-ish modellers don't like Kadees: I can understand that. They run clear across any aesthetic notion you have of British models. I'd respectfully suggest that the cornerstone of 'cutting off the coupling' is rooted in it's alien origin. For my uses, the Kadee is just right. Now, if I can find a Kadee/3-link combination, I'm in. I don't have any connection with Kadee, and I've never met them. I need the coupling to do an exacting job, and it works. Happy modelling Peeps! Ian. tomparryharry said Now, if I can find a Kadee/3-link combination, I'm in. You asked for it & here it is Here is a "kadee/3-link" mounted at the correct height between the buffers John 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 For me the biggest plus point is being able to lift wagons and coaches out without that twisting nightmare you get with tension locks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted November 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2017 For me the biggest plus point is being able to lift wagons and coaches out without that twisting nightmare you get with tension locks... There is one disadvantage: if you are not concentrating on your trains people can steal stock off your layout at exhibitions without you noticing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted November 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2017 They look perfectly natural to me, but then I grew up in Canada. The best argument for me is that the busines end is always the same size; there aren't a half-dozen variations, some incompatible. (if we ignore scale and old-timer variations). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I run a lot of London underground tube stock, mainly 1938 stock. They are in fixed 4 car and 3 car units. To run a 7 car train is a bit of a pain coupling. Track is very level. Does anyone have an opinion on 2mm scale equivalents to kadees given that tube stock is so much smaller the 4mm kadees are just too big? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 You could try the so-called 'scale' Kadees which are somewhat smaller. Or the Sergeant true scale HO coupler it's quite a bit smaller. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I run a lot of London underground tube stock, mainly 1938 stock. They are in fixed 4 car and 3 car units. To run a 7 car train is a bit of a pain coupling. Track is very level. Does anyone have an opinion on 2mm scale equivalents to kadees given that tube stock is so much smaller the 4mm kadees are just too big? You could go to the N scale version quite easily. https://www.micro-trains.com/magne-matic-couplers A couple of us used them on an OO-9 project a number of years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4railsman Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I run a lot of London underground tube stock, mainly 1938 stock. They are in fixed 4 car and 3 car units. To run a 7 car train is a bit of a pain coupling. Track is very level. Does anyone have an opinion on 2mm scale equivalents to kadees given that tube stock is so much smaller the 4mm kadees are just too big? I also have a number of 1938-stock EFE tube trains and agree they are a pain-in-the **** to couple together in 4-car sets. However, my main focus is in trying to find an effective way to fit "working magnetic couplings" to the driving ends so that two sets can be coupled/uncoupled easily. If anyone can suggest a way forward, I would be very interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Not sure about this... but if you were to fit neodium magnet to one end and steel plate to the other, would it to be possible to uncouple using same polarity electro magnet on track under the end with steel plate to repel magnet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Or z guage micro trains coupler? I did see somewhere that they are smaller ones now. My problem is that I would rather see before I buy... does anyone know of a good stockist in South London? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) I have drilled out the tension lock coupler from the brake van bogie which is not really needed anyway. After a lot of fiddling about I have found that a medium centre set whisker coupler # 148 gives a perfect fit on the coupler. The height is correct and the back of the knuckle lines up with the buffers. Even the hole left in the bogie after drilling out the rivet is the same size as the hole in the Kadee coupler ; it takes an M3 hex head X 5mm screw. Unfortunately, the nut is too big and rubs on the underside of the coach. The head of the M3 nut is also too big if I try and reverse it. I will experiment with some half nuts and try to find some M3 screws with a smaller and flatter head. I have nothing on hand at the moment but I am sure an ebay search will turn up something. These look good : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-M3-x-5mm-Laptop-Notebook-HDD-SSD-Screws-Phillips-Wafer-Flat-Head-Screw/272395915421?epid=908794100&hash=item3f6c0fd09d:g:7cUAAOSwCGVX7h9P Almost there.... ! Edited January 7, 2018 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Unfortunately, the nut is too big and rubs on the underside of the coach. The head of the M3 nut is also too big if I try and reverse it.You could file the head down - you can then hold it with a pair of pliers whilst tightening the nut up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2018 I have drilled out the tension lock coupler from the brake van bogie which is not really needed anyway. After a lot of fiddling about I have found that a medium centre set whisker coupler # 148 gives a perfect fit on the coupler. The height is correct and the back of the knuckle lines up with the buffers. Even the hole left in the bogie after drilling out the rivet is the same size as the hole in the Kadee coupler ; it takes an M3 hex head X 5mm screw. Unfortunately, the nut is too big and rubs on the underside of the coach. The head of the M3 nut is also too big if I try and reverse it. I will experiment with some half nuts and try to find some M3 screws with a smaller and flatter head. I have nothing on hand at the moment but I am sure an ebay search will turn up something. These look good : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-M3-x-5mm-Laptop-Notebook-HDD-SSD-Screws-Phillips-Wafer-Flat-Head-Screw/272395915421?epid=908794100&hash=item3f6c0fd09d:g:7cUAAOSwCGVX7h9P Almost there.... ! Countersunk screw and put the nut on the bottom? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Quick couple of questions about these couplers. Why do people upgrade? Do they look more realistic, better for shunting or what? I'm just undecided about converting some of my coaches. Because tension lock couplers look awful ! Any other type of coupler would look better but with Kadees you can also perform shunting operations. Edited January 7, 2018 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Countersunk screw and put the nut on the bottom? Yes, I tried that this afternoon that and it does work....just. The thin wafer head computer screws I have ordered from ebay should give me even more clearance. Edited January 7, 2018 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) After a lot of fiddling about I have found that a medium centre set whisker coupler # 148 gives a perfect fit on the coupler. The height is correct and the back of the knuckle lines up with the buffers. Even the hole left in the bogie after drilling out the rivet is the same size as the hole in the Kadee coupler ; it takes an M3 hex head X 5mm screw. Unfortunately, the nut is too big and rubs on the underside of the coach. The head of the M3 nut is also too big if I try and reverse it. I will experiment with some half nuts and try to find some M3 screws with a smaller and flatter head. I have nothing on hand at the moment but I am sure an ebay search will turn up something. These look good : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-M3-x-5mm-Laptop-Notebook-HDD-SSD-Screws-Phillips-Wafer-Flat-Head-Screw/272395915421?epid=908794100&hash=item3f6c0fd09d:g:7cUAAOSwCGVX7h9P Would the heads on these screws be small enough? (I actually think you're not doing it the way Kadee intend. The #148 coupler, like all the whisker couplers, is meant to be fitted in a gear box - the standard #242, the short #252 or the narrow #262. The gear boxes then attach to the bogie/chassis using 2-56 aka UNC No 2 screws. The Kadee tap and drill set #246 is sold for this purpose: you can either drive the screw into a tapped hole, or into a slightly larger through hole to be secured by a nut on the other side. The head on the 2-56 button head screws I use - again sourced from Model Fixings - is all of 1mm thick and I've yet to have any problems with them interfering with bogie movement. 2-56 is more like M2 than M3, FWIW.) Edited January 7, 2018 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 With the new whisker gear boxes (#242 etc.) being clip together you can just glue the lid in place then clip the rest of the box on - no need for screws. Not using a box will not work unless you have something for the whiskers to bear on to centre the coupler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Would the heads on these screws be small enough? (I actually think you're not doing it the way Kadee intend. The #148 coupler, like all the whisker couplers, is meant to be fitted in a gear box - the standard #242, the short #252 or the narrow #262. The gear boxes then attach to the bogie/chassis using 2-56 aka UNC No 2 screws. The Kadee tap and drill set #246 is sold for this purpose: you can either drive the screw into a tapped hole, or into a slightly larger through hole to be secured by a nut on the other side. The head on the 2-56 button head screws I use - again sourced from Model Fixings - is all of 1mm thick and I've yet to have any problems with them interfering with bogie movement. 2-56 is more like M2 than M3, FWIW.) I understand how the gear boxes work and I have plenty of them : the problem is I tried many different whisker Kadees (underset, overset and centreset) fitted with gearboxes and none would give the correct height without chopping into the bogie. It was only when I removed the gear box that I found that the #148 was the perfect height. I also tried #17, 18, 19 and 20's and found the same problem of not being the correct height without modifications to the bogie. I did not want to use glue except as a last resort. I used the #146 with its gear box to convert all my wagons. Edited January 8, 2018 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2018 Brian Most mountings with a nut or bolthead above the bogie run into part of the body. If it isn't the floor, it's the back of the bufferbeam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 When I get the odd problem of coupler height, such as with the Bachy BR 2-6-4T, I melt a Z shape in the coupler shank with a small soldering iron. I use a longer shank to give that bit extra to bend the Z shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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