brian777999 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Brian Most mountings with a nut or bolthead above the bogie run into part of the body. If it isn't the floor, it's the back of the bufferbeam. Yes, but I have not found any Kadee to mount under the bogie that gives the correct height. (I am using the Kadee height gauge.) I understand what people are saying that the Kadee as I have screwed it to the bogie will not swivel but the bogie itself swivels as it goes around the bends. So far it seems to work well but I will continue to test it and I am happy to try out any new suggestions. Edited January 8, 2018 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2018 With the new whisker gear boxes (#242 etc.) being clip together you can just glue the lid in place then clip the rest of the box on - no need for screws. Not using a box will not work unless you have something for the whiskers to bear on to centre the coupler. Agreed, without a box, any uncoupling becomes manual-only as the whiskers have nothing to bear against. Presumably, this isn't an issue in the context being discussed. However, from my experience, I would always use a screw as well. Without one, the box and lid (whichever way round you fit them) can, and occasionally will, come apart in a derailment etc. Once they have done so a couple of times, the fit becomes noticeably less secure and recurrence increasingly likely. I always use a screw to be on the safe side but it also produces a more predictable alignment. Even with one, the Whisker couplers in #242 boxes are inclined to droop and I have begun to use a #209 washer to improve consistency. The propensity to droop is absent when using #252 or #262 boxes, though gluing the latter to anything seems to be impossible. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I had another go with a Kadee #19 mounted UNDER the bogie : this seems to be the correct height and length. The photo shows it just held on with a small amount of Blu Tac. I will have to repair the hole in the bogie with some styrene then drill a small hole to take an M2 X 5mm screw from underneath. Edited January 9, 2018 by brian777999 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I had another go with a Kadee #19 mounted UNDER the bogie : this seems to be the correct height and length. The photo shows it just held on with a small amount of Blu Tac. I will have to repair the hole in the bogie with some styrene then drill a small hole to take an M2 X 5mm screw from underneath. Why use a nut & bolt? The bogie is plastic (judging by the pivot moulding), and you can simply use self-tapping screws. For my Kadees I use No.0 x 6.4mm Philips countersunk BZP self-tappers from ModelFixings.com (just a satisfied customer). It just needs a ~1mm hole drilled before screwing in the self-tapper. If the thread is too long, a quick snip with the cutters solves that problem. In fact, with my Lima bogies the self-tapper solution seems to be only way to go (glue just will not work long term - I tried!). Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I have just purchased a Hornby Lord of the Isles loco in very good condition. Has anybody fitted Kadees to one of these : what did you use ? Some photos would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I have just purchased a Hornby Lord of the Isles loco in very good condition. Has anybody fitted Kadees to one of these : what did you use ? Some photos would be nice. Just to the tender, I presume? This is always easiest if you can access the top of the chassis, so first remove the body. Then remove whatever blobs and ridges the T/L coupler is fixed to. The usual procedure for any tender is just to prepare a flat, level platform behind the buffer beam (and flush with the bottom of it) big enough to accept a draft box. This will mean filing or building up (or a bit of both) according to the individual model. A tool tip is that Xuron track cutters are great for removing the bulk of anything you don't want, thereby reducing the amount you have to file. I use the biggest size of Slater's strip for this kind of packing but Evergreen make a close equivalent. Offer up an assembled #146 coupler to ascertain the location that will place the knuckle where you want it. Stick it on with a bit of double sided tape and check the height. Add thin packing if too high or swap to a #141 coupler if too low. Then fix the draft box in place, drill and tap for a #256 fixing screw (I am assuming you have the #246 tap and drill set) and put it all together. John [sorry, no photos. It's such a straightforward procedure that I've never bothered taking any]. Edited February 3, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Then fix the draft box in place, drill and tap for a #256 fixing screw (I am assuming you have the #246 tap and drill set) and put it all together. John [sorry, no photos. It's such a straightforward procedure that I've never bothered taking any]. I used to use an M2 nut and bolt, but I've found it is much easier (& cheaper ...) to use a self-tapping screw as you are usually attaching to a plastic surface. I found that either an MF-ST30B (No.0x6.4mm pan head) in black or MF-ST55 (No.0x6.4mm countersunk) from modelfixings.com (just a happy customer) work very well. All they need is a 1mm pilot hole to screw into. I mark the location for the drilling using a bodger (errr, is that the proper term? It's a sharp metal point attached to a wooden handle) through the hole in the Kadee draft block when it's in the correct location. I posted a few photos at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112980-signaller69s-projects-more-coaching-stock/page-11&do=findComment&comment=2999278 Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I have just purchased a Hornby Lord of the Isles loco in very good condition. Has anybody fitted Kadees to one of these : what did you use ? Some photos would be nice.How are the tension locks fitted - if by screw then its possible simply to replace the tension lock with a NEM Kadee (which has a suitably sized hole drilled in its shank for the screw to fit through; 19 or 20 recommended as a 18 is a bit short for hole drilling. The Kadee should be at the right height. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) The tension locks are fitted using the usual Hornby rivets which will have to be drilled out. I might want to fit a Kadee to the front of the loco as well ; I will be removing the tension lock from there. Edited February 3, 2018 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted February 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2018 I just looked at my Lord of the Isles. (One of the very early ones) The tender coupling is mounted with a screw from below. I would use a #20 and drill a hole in the depression in the shank and screw it on, hoping that the screw is still long enough. The coupling on the front bogie is on top of the bogie, with the spigots at the side rivetted down. I'm not sure how this can be done. An NEM mount would be a tad high and there would be the head of the bolt to deal with. It might take a plain #6 (what number is the 6 in the new system) just screwed on -- drill a hole where the middle hole is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The coupling on the front bogie is on top of the bogie, with the spigots at the side rivetted down. I'm not sure how this can be done. An NEM mount would be a tad high and there would be the head of the bolt to deal with. It might take a plain #6 (what number is the 6 in the new system) just screwed on -- drill a hole where the middle hole is.Suggest file off the rivet tags to release to release the rivet and the tension lock and try fitting a NEM Kadee like you propose at the rear with a suitable nut and bolt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) I just looked at my Lord of the Isles. (One of the very early ones) The tender coupling is mounted with a screw from below. I would use a #20 and drill a hole in the depression in the shank and screw it on, hoping that the screw is still long enough. The coupling on the front bogie is on top of the bogie, with the spigots at the side rivetted down. I'm not sure how this can be done. An NEM mount would be a tad high and there would be the head of the bolt to deal with. It might take a plain #6 (what number is the 6 in the new system) just screwed on -- drill a hole where the middle hole is. Dimensions of Kadees (apart from the #5) follow on using the same last digit. Thus the #6 can be replaced by the #16 and #46 (also discontinued). If the OP does want to fit a front auto-coupler (though I can't see any reason to want one on this particular loco unless for double heading), currently available Kadees with the same reach and height are the #36 or the #146, the latter being mounted in the alternative #252 draft box. John Edited February 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I just looked at my Lord of the Isles. (One of the very early ones) The tender coupling is mounted with a screw from below. I would use a #20 and drill a hole in the depression in the shank and screw it on, hoping that the screw is still long enough. The coupling on the front bogie is on top of the bogie, with the spigots at the side rivetted down. I'm not sure how this can be done. An NEM mount would be a tad high and there would be the head of the bolt to deal with. It might take a plain #6 (what number is the 6 in the new system) just screwed on -- drill a hole where the middle hole is. MIne is a later model but the coupling is the same. Tender coupler is easily removed. The front coupler does present problems as you have pointed out. I may just remove the front one and then leave it like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2018 MIne is a later model but the coupling is the same. Tender coupler is easily removed. The front coupler does present problems as you have pointed out. I may just remove the front one and then leave it like that. If you can live without a front coupling I would suggest that the majesty of the single wheel design is better served by not having an overscale protrusion on the front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2018 If you can live without a front coupling I would suggest that the majesty of the single wheel design is better served by not having an overscale protrusion on the front. But didn't the GWR always have the train loco in front and pilot loco behind? So unless it is the train loco, then it will need a coupler on front for double heading purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Has anyone experience of fitting Kadee couplers (whisker type #156 or #158 probably) to the Craftsman DK16 bufferbeam kit for an old 00-gauge Mainline Class 45. A photo of the replacement bufferbeam (to be attached, correctly, to the bogie and not the body!). As far as I can see it is going to need a 'slot' cut through the buffer to take the Kadee, with the width of the slot wide enough to push the 'whisker' end of the Kadee through the hole (and then installing the draft box 'behind' the bufferbeam). Any help / guidance / suggestions appreciated. Yes, I know updating / modifying an old Mainline Class 45 is 'not worth it', but I've had the model from new (~1982?) and it's been in storage for most of it's life since and it's a nice 'challenge'. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Actually, the early Bachmann Class 46, which I have, needs this same upgrade. Although they put in the good 8-wheel drive system with central can motor, they didn't take the buffer beam off the body and put it on the bogie until a later release of the Peak family. So I'd like to know how it's done, too! P.S. I'm thinking that one of the NEM362 series couplers might be easier to fit? Edited February 22, 2018 by naugytrax Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Actually, the early Bachmann Class 46, which I have, needs this same upgrade. Although they put in the good 8-wheel drive system with central can motor, they didn't take the buffer beam off the body and put it on the bogie until a later release of the Peak family. So I'd like to know how it's done, too! P.S. I'm thinking that one of the NEM362 series couplers might be easier to fit? An NEM362 Kadee (#18, #19) might be 'easier', but it's still going to need a hole in the bufferbeam (unless there's a 'trick' I'm missing - hence the posting!). And you need the Craftsman kit, which I believe is getting hard to obtain. I got mine from the 'spares box' at a Chesterfield model shop last year. Fingers crossed, someone will respond with some ideas ... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Actually, the early Bachmann Class 46, which I have, needs this same upgrade. Although they put in the good 8-wheel drive system with central can motor, they didn't take the buffer beam off the body and put it on the bogie until a later release of the Peak family. So I'd like to know how it's done, too! P.S. I'm thinking that one of the NEM362 series couplers might be easier to fit? I did one (D193) many years ago (when they were newly released), and it was a bit of a s*d IIRC. I think I made a slot in the beam and fitted a #5 or #26 through it but it's a long time ago. I don't think I have the loco any more so can't look to verify. If yours has tension lock couplers screwed on, the easy fix will be a #20 with the clips taken off and a hole drilled for the screw. Some filing and fiddling will be necessary to get the alignment dead right. John Edited February 22, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Has anyone experience of fitting Kadee couplers (whisker type #156 or #158 probably) to the Craftsman DK16 bufferbeam kit for an old 00-gauge Mainline Class 45. A photo of the replacement bufferbeam (to be attached, correctly, to the bogie and not the body!). 20180222_194944.jpg As far as I can see it is going to need a 'slot' cut through the buffer to take the Kadee, with the width of the slot wide enough to push the 'whisker' end of the Kadee through the hole (and then installing the draft box 'behind' the bufferbeam). Any help / guidance / suggestions appreciated. Yes, I know updating / modifying an old Mainline Class 45 is 'not worth it', but I've had the model from new (~1982?) and it's been in storage for most of it's life since and it's a nice 'challenge'. Ian My suggestion: Make the slot big enough to insert the draft box from the front and superglue it in place, minus the lid. Shorten the lid so it will fit onto the portion of the box that protrudes behind the buffer beam. If the box fouls the pony truck, the whisker coupler doesn't occupy much of it behind the pivot so quite a bit can be trimmed off if necessary. Have a spare packet of #242 draft boxes to hand. You will, almost certainly, mess up a couple............ John Edited February 22, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 My preferred Kadee combination on BR stock is the #156(long, centre set, whisker, scale head) with a 262 or 252 gearbox My first attempts with Kadee about 50 years ago were #5s. To prevent buffer lock the #5 box had to protrude way out from the buffer beam & were very ordinary looking.(stuck out like a sore thumb) With the #156/262 combination the gearbox can be very close to the buffer beam The 252 box there is little or no protrusion at the read of the box so trimming the rear of the box may not be necessary to clear pony trucks(see Dunsignalling post 305) John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Thanks, the locos (IE 141s) have NEM pockets and most of the wagons although kit/scratch and conversion will be rebogied/underframed using Bachmann products so shoul all be NEM pocketed as well. I've read about the height guage so this will be a must but need to sort out correct couplers to get round those second radius curves. Are there any retailers UK that sell a big selection? G Hi there I'm in the USA and have some of each. If interested send me a e-mail (in my profile). I'll be more than willing to send you some, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) My preferred Kadee combination on BR stock is the #156(long, centre set, whisker, scale head) with a 262 or 252 gearbox My first attempts with Kadee about 50 years ago were #5s. To prevent buffer lock the #5 box had to protrude way out from the buffer beam & were very ordinary looking.(stuck out like a sore thumb) With the #156/262 combination the gearbox can be very close to the buffer beam The 252 box there is little or no protrusion at the read of the box so trimming the rear of the box may not be necessary to clear pony trucks(see Dunsignalling post 305) John True, but the 252 box needs a flat platform to mount it on. The idea behind suggesting the 242 was that its flat front allows it to be fixed directly through or behind a slotted buffer beam, then shortened to clear at the back if necessary. Dimensionally, the 262 is better, but I've not yet identified an adhesive or solvent that will even mark the plastic it's made from, let alone stick it to anything else. Any recommendations will be gratefully accepted as, so far, double-sided tape is the best thing I've found. It therefore needs a screw or nut-and-bolt fixing (as will the 252), which won't be easy to arrange on the older Bachmann "Peak". John Edited February 23, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Anybody in the UK after some OO scale Kadees ? PM me I have a good number, many new and unused, height gauges etc, I am sticking with 7mm modelling now, so I have no need for the HO / OO one’s. Best regards Craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 In case anybody is interested,I have found this ebay seller in the US to be the cheapest source of Kaydees #146. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kadee-146-Metal-Whisker-Coupler-Long-25-64-Centerset-Shank-HO-Scale/123111082706?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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