Kadee Couplers

[Budgie]

The only advantage I could think of would be the ease of lifting a coach from the track but then the Bachmann Ezmate would work equally well- the Roco/Hornby type do take a bit of fiddling to part and in the case of the Roco ones they do have a easily broken part IME. I bought the Roco ones in bulk and then having found they were really only suitable for coaches thankfully have a large number of spares.

I find the Roco/Hornby ones part easily if you have a Tri-ang R160 Hand decoupler, or an equivalent. I have one soldered up from brass and wire, with some tape on the underside to prevent it short-circuiting the track when in use.

[brian777999]

I have previously fitted a number of Kadee 146 couplers (and the 242 box) to  some wagon kits I built and all went well. But now I have purchased a number of Hornby open wagons and getting some of them apart to remove the weight strip is a problem. The weight strip has to be removed in order to drill a hole for the screw as I don't fancy drilling down through steel. The hole would never be in the right place ! Most of the wagons come apart easily once the TLCs are removed but others will not. 

 

What is the best glue to use to fasten the 242 box to the underside of the chassis ? I was thinking of using 5 minute Araldite.

[melmerby]

I have previously fitted a number of Kadee 146 couplers (and the 242 box) to  some wagon kits I built and all went well. But now I have purchased a number of Hornby open wagons and getting some of them apart to remove the weight strip is a problem. The weight strip has to be removed in order to drill a hole for the screw as I don't fancy drilling down through steel. The hole would never be in the right place ! Most of the wagons come apart easily once the TLCs are removed but others will not. 

 

What is the best glue to use to fasten the 242 box to the underside of the chassis ? I was thinking of using 5 minute Araldite.

Which Hornby open wagons?

I have about 4 variations, depending on where they originated from.

Even wagons of the same type seem to vary on assembly detail.

 

Keith

[ejstubbs]

What is the best glue to use to fasten the 242 box to the underside of the chassis ? I was thinking of using 5 minute Araldite.

 

I generally don't glue gear boxes on.  I prefer to fit them using a 2-56 (no. 2 UNC) button-head hex screw.  This is the size recommended by Kadee.  I use the drill and tap in the Kadee #246 tap & drill set to drill and...er...tap the requisite hole in the chassis.  A blind hole is often all you need, you don't need to disassemble the wagon.  I get my 2-56 screws and 1.3mm Allen keys from modelfixings.co.uk; I'm sure there are other perfectly good suppliers.  Just be gentle when tightening the screws - have a bit of sensitivity for the material.

 

If I do glue the gear boxes on then I use canopy glue.  You could ways do both, ie screw and glue, if you wanted to be extra sure.

Edited May 20, 2018 by ejstubbs

[melmerby]

I generally don't glue gear boxes on.  I prefer to fit them using a 2-56 (no. 2 UNC) button-head hex screw.  This is the size recommended by Kadee.  I use the drill and tap in the Kadee #246 tap & drill set to drill and...er...tap the requisite hole in the chassis.  A blind hole is often all you need, you don't need to disassemble the wagon.  I get my 2-56 screws and 1.3mm Allen keys from modelfixings.co.uk; I'm sure there are other perfectly good suppliers.  Just be gentle when tightening the screws - have a bit of sensitivity for the material.

 

If I do glue the gear boxes on then I use canopy glue.  You could ways do both, ie screw and glue, if you wanted to be extra sure.

One some Hornby wagons the material is so thin at the point where you need to fix it that tapping a hole is just not possible, you do need a nut and bolt.

 

 

On these the material of the floor is less than 1mm thick, the only thick area is the buffer beam and the self tapping screw boss

 

Keith

[brian777999]

I do use a nut and bolt : M2 X 12 mm socket head as I always have plenty of this type on hand. But I am trying to avoid drilling through the steel weight as fitted by Hornby. That is why I asked about the glue. Anyway, I will try drilling through the steel plate and see how it goes. When drilling through metal I usually punch a mark before drilling but that is not an option here.

[ejstubbs]

As promised, some photos and explanation of how I attach Kadees to Airfix/Dapol LMS non-corridor coach bogies, and Bachmann LMS coach bogies.

 

First, the Airfix bogie:

 

 

 

The Kadee #242 gear box fits where the gubbins for the Airfix coupler used to be.  I cut away the Airfix coupler mounting plate as far as the side flanges.  I cut & drill a 40thou plastikard plate to fit over bogie pivot boss, with a 10mm wide extension towards the coupling end of the bogie, and glue it in place using canopy glue.  I glue a Kadee #242 gear box on to 10mmx27.5mm strip of 40thou plastikard using liquid poly cement, then glue that plastikard strip to the underside of the extension from bogie pivot.  The gear box should end up sitting ~1mm pround of the side flanges of the bogie front beam.  I glue the side flanges of bogie front beam to gear box with canopy glue, and install #141 whisker coupler in the gear box.

 

Now for the Bachmann LMS bogie:

 

 

 

After removing the Bachmann TLC, I cut a 6mm wide slot in the coupling end of the bogie as far back as the horizontal section over the adjacent axle.  I trim ~1mm off the outer corners to accommodate the Kadee gear box.  I make a platform out of 40thou plastikard 20mm long and 10mm wide, with cutouts 3mm deep by 7mm wide each side; this makes a T-shape with a thick top to the T and a short stem.  I offer up a Kadee #262 narrow gear box and drill & tap a hole for a 2-56 machine screw.  To this I fit a Kadee #148 whisker coupler in a #262 gear box, with lid to the top, attaching it to the T-shaped platform with 3/16" 2-56 button head machine screw.  I then attach the T-shaped platform to the underside of the bogie so that the gear box opening is flush with the bogie end.

 

The Bachmann conversion is somewhat simpler than the Airfix one, since you can fabricate the T-shaped platform with the coupler in the #262 gear box separately, then do the surgery to the bogie and pop the whole assembly in place.  (This is one reason why I have ditched the Airfix non-corridor coaches in favour of the recent Hornby ones).  I've used the converted Bachmann bogies under my Hornby 'LMS' clerestory coaches and my Lima 42' LMS GUV (which originally came with BR bogies).

 

Next exercise is to convert a rake of Bachmann Period 1 LMS coaches to use Keen CCUs.  Wish me luck...

[melmerby]

I do use a nut and bolt : M2 X 12 mm socket head as I always have plenty of this type on hand. But I am trying to avoid drilling through the steel weight as fitted by Hornby. That is why I asked about the glue. Anyway, I will try drilling through the steel plate and see how it goes. When drilling through metal I usually punch a mark before drilling but that is not an option here.

On those I posted above, I have found the wagon body is either, not fixed at all and just an interference fit in the screw bosses, or held with double sided tape and the weight again can be unfixed or held by the double sided holding the body or have it's own double sided tape.

Perm any combination!

 

Ex Airfix style wagon bodies are usually clipped in place and the weight can be not stuck at all or slightly stuck or stuck with loads of a horrible epoxy type resin.

 

Keith

[ejstubbs]

I've only got one Hornby wagon with that kind of detail under the chassis.  However, I did fit Kadees using 2-56 screws:

 

 

I cut away all the downward-protruding gubbins behind the buffer beam, down (looking at the wagon upside-down) to the level of the top (ie the 'true' bottom) of the buffer beam.  I used a piece of (I think) 20thou plastikard to provide a flat surface for a #262 gear box, and screwed the assembled gear box + #146 coupler into a tapped blind hole through the plastikard and in to the wagon chassis.  (I might have glued the plastikard platform on to the wagon chassis - I'm afraid I can't remember for sure.)  Note that the gear box opening is behind the front face of the buffer beam; I believe (though I don't have my notes to hand to make sure) that I did it this way, and used a long coupler, so as to be able to drill in to a solid part of the wagon chassis ie avoiding the original screw hole.

[melmerby]

Fitting a long #146 into a #232 on my wagon brings me further back and there definitely isn't enough thickness for a self tapper!

 

 

Keith

[ISW]

Paddy,

 

Thanks for that. I've got a pair of those couplings so I'll give them a try. If they are a 'direct replacement' for the existing NEM (cranked) couplings I will be well happy.

 

Ian

Except that .... the Bachmann NEM coupling 78035 seems to be 'out of stock'. Even eBay reports them being out of stock! Yes, they are available in USA and Australia, but the shipping costs are prohibitive. 

 

Back to Plan A, modifying Kadee #18 with a plasticard NEM plug. At least I have a Bachmann 78035 that will serve as an excellent 'template'.

 

Ian

[ISW]

Which is close.

6, 7 or 8mm isn't

The buffers in the picture I commented on are at least 2-3mm back from the corridor ends, not each other.

 

BTW My "modern" stock is modern as in manufacture not modern as in post 1948!

No coaches newer than 1939 prototypes apart from Airfix autocoach and a Lima railcar.

 

Keith

In my defence, M-Lord, the Kadees cost almost as much as the coaches did! One box is marked £2.80 and the other was less that that (from memory) back in ~1981.

 

I did measure it, and you are spot on at 7-8mm. But at the price, I'll live with the less than perfect close coupling.

 

Ian

[ISW]

One some Hornby wagons the material is so thin at the point where you need to fix it that tapping a hole is just not possible, you do need a nut and bolt.

 

 

On these the material of the floor is less than 1mm thick, the only thick area is the buffer beam and the self tapping screw boss

 

Keith

Keith,

 

I had a similar problem with a Hornby R239(?) 26T stone wagon. The top and bottom plastic mouldings are 'clipped'  together a bit oto firmly to permit disassembly, and there is a steel plate sandwiched in between for the whole length of the wagon.

 

I did originally glue on the Kadees, but this eventually failed.

 

I found that even though there is only ~1mm of plastic in the bottom moulding, it was enough to hold a self-tapping screw. I drilled a pilot hole in the moulding and screwed in the self-tapper as far as it would go (until the 2 mouldings began to separate!). Then I trimmed the screw back until it was only ~1mm longer than the Kadee draft box. Bingo, it worked a treat and continues to work.

 

Parts: You can see the steel plate through the 'slot' behind the bufferbeam.

 

Assembled:

 

Ian

[Dunsignalling]

One solution to the fixing issue is to take the wagon apart and use a countersunk screw inserted from above so that the weight will be unaffected. Superglue it in place.

 

Secure the lid with a nut on the bottom, then trim the screw as required.

 

I always glue the box to the underframe using Plastic Magic and the bond is such that it becomes more-or-less integral with the chassis. The screw or nut-and-bolt then just hold the lid in place. 

 

John

Edited May 21, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[brian777999]

I am going to fit Kadee couplers front and rear to a Hornby Lord of the Isles loco - modern version. The tender will be no problem as I will just remove some plastic and fit a Kadee 146 with a 242 gearbox. But the the TLC on the loco bogie appears to be ''rivetted'' on. How do I go about removing this with the least amount of damage ?

 

NOTE : it would be nice to replace the plastic wheels too.....suggestions ? 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by brian777999

[melmerby]

The rivets are possibly part of the casting which is dressed over to hold the coupling in place.

If so, some judicious filing to remove the metal?

 

Keith

Edited May 30, 2018 by melmerby

[brian777999]

Thanks, that is what I thought but I wanted confirmation before ripping in.

 

What about those plastic wheels ? Once I got them out, how would I get metal wheels in ? I know others have done it but I am not sure how.

[BR60103]

Brian

Depending on what you are planning, you might drill a hole through where the middle hole in the TL is. Screwing an NEM mount at this point might make it a tad high, but you probably won't be haulinh much by the front bogie.

 

Most Kadee mountings at this point will bang against the frame or buffer beam.

 

No idea about the wheels.

[Butler Henderson]

The issue is that a NEM Kadee can directly replace a tension lock which is screwed in place by simply drilling a hole in the shank of the Kadee. In the case of this bogie the underside of the tension lock is affixed to the bogie rather than the upperside so a NEM kadee if fitted directly on the bogie will be too high. It may be possible to file down the thickness of the plastic shank of a NEM Kadee to correct the height issue. Alternatively is it absolutely necessary for the loco to have  a front coupling?

[melmerby]

Re: changing wheels.

What's the underside look like?

Some old metal bogies used to have a metal keeper plate (possibly riveted in place) which keeps the axles in their slots.

 

Keith

Edited May 31, 2018 by melmerby

[brian777999]

Re: changing wheels.

What's the underside look like?

Some old metal bogies used to have a metal keeper plate (possibly riveted in place) which keeps the axles in their slots.

 

Keith

 

No keeper plate on this bogie.

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by brian777999

[melmerby]

I assume the bogie is metal?

It looks like the axle ends might be a force fit into the slots and the wheels free to turn on it, hence the plastic extensions to keep them to gauge.

To replace with metal wheels you would need the new wheels to run freely on the axle but stay in gauge so something like the same arrangement could be used with a length of plastic tubing cut to fit between the wheels to keep gauge adding some shims outside the wheels to stop them rubbing on the frame.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[Budgie]

Has anybody installed Kadee couplers on Ratio's 4-wheel coaches?

[melmerby]

Has anybody installed Kadee couplers on Ratio's 4-wheel coaches?

Not yet but it should be easy, especially if you allow for them during assembly. The floor is flat and you could apply packing under the floor to get the gear box to the right height

With a packing piece there shoud be enough meat for a self tapper to hold the gearbox

I have 6, so far, part built kits which will get them when finished.

Probably a #146 should do the job

 

Keith

Edited June 2, 2018 by melmerby

[HLT 0109]

Along the lines of Keith's suggestion, do the dimensionas of Brian's bogie set match those of the old Triang wagons with cast metal frames incorporating 2mm metal axles and the same type of wheels as in the photo?  If so, then I have replaced the wheels and axles on Triang horse boxes with modern Hornby wheelsets, using 2mm brass, pinpoint bearings.  As long as the axles will fit between the sides of the bogie frame, the bearings can be adjusted to allow trhe correct end-play.  If there is room, a top hat bearing can be used on one end of each axle and a plain one on the other - pushed in from outside the frame and glued.  If there isn't space for a top hat bearing, then a plain one on each end of each axle works but it is more difficult to get the endplay right.  This assumes the axles on Brian's item can be driven out through the frame.

 

Harold..