Kadee Couplers

[melmerby]

Anybody want a job lot?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332825007925?ul_noapp=true

 

Keith

 

(Probably only for US members)

Edited October 19, 2018 by melmerby

[47137]

I have worked out how to fit springs into Kadee knuckle heads! This really works, though I am left-handed and maybe this gives an advantage for once.

• With the coupler mounted on the wagon or whatever, hold the vehicle in your right hand with the wheels to the left and the coupler towards you. The place for the spring is uppermost on the coupler.
• Hold a Stanley knife in your left hand (the chunky handle gives mass so your hand is more stable) and pick up the spring with the tip of the blade. The blade needs to go into the coil about two turns from the left-hand end of the spring.
• Resting both forearms on the bench, place the nearer (right-hand) end of the spring over the cast lump on the knuckle itself. Compress the spring and then gently turn the knife anti-clockwise, putting the other end of the spring in line with the cast lump on the shank. Release the compression in the spring and when the free end slides onto the cast lump, slide the knife away.

Before now I have thrown away couplers because I could not get a new spring on.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

- Richard.

[melmerby]

I have worked out how to fit springs into Kadee knuckle heads! This really works, though I am left-handed and maybe this gives an advantage for once.

• With the coupler mounted on the wagon or whatever, hold the vehicle in your right hand with the wheels to the left and the coupler towards you. The place for the spring is uppermost on the coupler.
• Hold a Stanley knife in your left hand (the chunky handle gives mass so your hand is more stable) and pick up the spring with the tip of the blade. The blade needs to go into the coil about two turns from the left-hand end of the spring.
• Resting both forearms on the bench, place the nearer (right-hand) end of the spring over the cast lump on the knuckle itself. Compress the spring and then gently turn the knife anti-clockwise, putting the other end of the spring in line with the cast lump on the shank. Release the compression in the spring and when the free end slides onto the cast lump, slide the knife away.

Before now I have thrown away couplers because I could not get a new spring on.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

- Richard.

I normally use tweezers as I have had several in packets where the spring has come out in transit.

Using a fine flat nosed pair you can grip just one coil and feed each end onto the locating pips.

 

Keith

[ejstubbs]

Fine-nosed tweezers worked well for me the one and only time I lost a spring.  Which surprised me somewhat, as I had read much to put me off the idea of even trying if it ever did happen to me.

[kevinlms]

I have worked out how to fit springs into Kadee knuckle heads! This really works, though I am left-handed and maybe this gives an advantage for once.

• With the coupler mounted on the wagon or whatever, hold the vehicle in your right hand with the wheels to the left and the coupler towards you. The place for the spring is uppermost on the coupler.
• Hold a Stanley knife in your left hand (the chunky handle gives mass so your hand is more stable) and pick up the spring with the tip of the blade. The blade needs to go into the coil about two turns from the left-hand end of the spring.
• Resting both forearms on the bench, place the nearer (right-hand) end of the spring over the cast lump on the knuckle itself. Compress the spring and then gently turn the knife anti-clockwise, putting the other end of the spring in line with the cast lump on the shank. Release the compression in the spring and when the free end slides onto the cast lump, slide the knife away.

Before now I have thrown away couplers because I could not get a new spring on.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

- Richard.

I can't follow the detailed contortions of that, but the key part is to NOT get hold of the spring in the centre, but near to an end.

That way it becomes quite easy & logical. 

[John ks]

You could always get the Kadee tool

 

A hint from my local hobby shop is to feed a length of cotton through a couple loops of the spring & remove it when the spring is installed

 

If the spring goes sproing then the cotton stops it from getting lost

 

John

 

PS "sproing" the sound a spring makes as it flies off into the distance never to be seen again

[melmerby]

I can't follow the detailed contortions of that, but the key part is to NOT get hold of the spring in the centre, but near to an end.

That way it becomes quite easy & logical. 

Except when using tweezers when it's a doddle.

 

Keith

[kevinlms]

You could always get the Kadee tool

 

 

I have one, its still much easier if you pick up the spring at one end. It doesn't matter which end!

[47137]

I think we are all well ahead of tomorrow's surgeons:

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46019429

 

 

- Richard.

[Il Grifone]

The springs (and other small components) have a habit of flying off* never to be found again.... I kerb this habit by storing the things on a length of fine wire.

 

* into another dimension? I have seen where they fall and still not been able to find them again!

[Il Grifone]

I think we are all well ahead of tomorrow's surgeons:

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46019429

 

 

- Richard.

 

A logical result of the decline of proper childhood hobbies like trains, Meccano and so forth.

[Oldddudders]

 

 

PS "sproing" the sound a spring makes as it flies off into the distance never to be seen again

 

Zebedee would approve. 

[melmerby]

 

I have fitted Kadees to my first Bachmann 45XX (Non DCC Ready)

Here's how.

 

The loco is fitted with coupling pockets on the pony trucks so I expected to be able to just plug in some #18s

No way, Bachmann in it's wisdom have mounted the pocket at the wrong height and in the wrong position relative to the buffer beam (i.e. too far back!)

As you can see the T/L couplings fitted are non standard (standard at the top, 45XX at the bottom)

 

 

As the pocket forms much of the pony truck, butchering was off the cards so I decided to make an adaptor from plasticard.

The tongue was a force fit into the Bachmann pocket and using that arrangement the coupling was fixed at the appropriate height and distance.

The #18 was fixed to the plastic adaptor with a 10BA nut & bolt.

 

A #18 with the plastic adaptor:

 

 

The bits assembled:

 

Fitted to pony truck:

 

Checked against the gauge for height:

 

I think a tack of bostick type adhesive to keep it all together and trim of the screw and it will be finished

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by melmerby

[Jeff Smith]

It is perhaps a sign that Kadee does not really cater for the NEM market; four different lengths but only one height!

[melmerby]

30 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

It is perhaps a sign that Kadee does not really cater for the NEM market; four different lengths but only one height!

More to do with a manufacturer (Usually Bachmann) treading it's own path and not using the NEM standard* placing of the coupling pocket, leading to a requirement for several different configuration NEM fitting tension locks.

Later offerings from Bachmann are generally better.

They seemed to have got the message that a standard is what it says and not a starting point for a variation!

* actually for H0 but as we in the UK use H0 track it is a sensible standard to use

Edited February 27, 2019 by melmerby

[Jeff Smith]

Per an earlier post of mine the Whisker type has generally replaced the earlier type, including the oft used #5.

 

The Whisker coupler with #242 gearbox, or the slightly smaller #252, actually works better than the NEM design. This is because the whole coupler swings from side to side as well as just the head so on tight radius curves there is more 'give'.  This is also better for delayed uncoupling.

 

There may be a good argument for cutting off the lower part of the NEM pocket and using the upper part as a surface to mount a gearbox.

[ejstubbs]

46 minutes ago, melmerby said:

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

It is perhaps a sign that Kadee does not really cater for the NEM market; four different lengths but only one height!

More to do with a manufacturer (Usually Bachmann) treading it's own path and not using the NEM standard*

 

Indeed.  Kadee does a perfectly good job of catering for the NEM market.  Offering different height couplers would not be catering for the NEM market: the NEM standard specifies the height that the pocket should be.  It's Bachmann who failed to cater for that.

 

45 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

The Whisker coupler with #242 gearbox, or the slightly smaller #252, actually works better than the NEM design. This is because the whole coupler swings from side to side as well as just the head so on tight radius curves there is more 'give'.  This is also better for delayed uncoupling.

 

I find that the NEM couplers work OK if the NEM pocket itself has some side-to-side movement, as most of the ones on the UK market do - either using the "fishtail" type NEM pocket used by Hornby and Bachmann, or Dapol's more complicated (and IMO not very good) pivot and spring implementation.  I find that Kadees in fixed NEM pockets work well enough on pony trucks and coach bogies (i.e. where the chassis they're fixed to is fairly short wheelbase and will 'follow' curves reasonably well) but not quite as well as in NEM pockets with their own range of sideways movement.

 

I always stop to consider alternative solutions if I find myself contemplating a rigid fixing for a Kadee coupler.  It's not quite in the "every time you do it God kills a puppy" league, but it never feels quite right to me to rely solely on the knuckle for lateral flexibility.  Even if I do it anyway, and it works, it irks.

[melmerby]

6 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

 

 

I always stop to consider alternative solutions if I find myself contemplating a rigid fixing for a Kadee coupler.  It's not quite in the "every time you do it God kills a puppy" league, but it never feels quite right to me to rely solely on the knuckle for lateral flexibility.  Even if I do it anyway, and it works, it irks.

The NEM Kadees have the swivel heads to try and make up for the rigid pockets on many vehicles

[Jeff Smith]

My RTR Kadee experience is limited to Bachmann On30 but for bogie wagons and coaches the coupler pocket is on the chassis not the bogie.  The extra sideways movement is probably therefore necessary.

[DutyDruid]

20 hours ago, melmerby said:

 

I have fitted Kadees to my first Bachmann 45XX (Non DCC Ready)

Here's how.

 

 

Like this a lot and it's given me food for thought, thanks for posting it.

 

I did ask here for ideas about dealing with a Bachmann 4MT tank that had the same problem June/July/August time last year and Butler Henderson posted a picture of a cut & shut of a Kadee head to a cranked Bachmann coupler (if I could remember how to link back to quote a much earlier post I would have done so but I'm afraid it's been a long day and the brain is failing).  Sadly I chose not to follow his advice because I was a bit dubious that about making an assembly that was strong enough to withstand heavy exhibition use so I went down the road of trying to fabricate an NEM pocket from Evergreen styrene oblong tube to fit on the bottom/back of the 4MT but it didn't work first time and got put in the "too difficult" box because of other pressing jobs. 

 

Having seen this I think I will have a go at knocking up an adapter like this.

 

Elliott

 

[Butler Henderson]

Re the standard 4 tank you need an extra piece of packing  for the bunker end as the coupling mount their is crazily set even further higher, 

[melmerby]

38 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Re the standard 4 tank you need an extra piece of packing  for the bunker end as the coupling mount their is crazily set even further higher, 

Presumably that means the T/L couplings each end aren't the same?

At least on the 45XX they were, even if they were at the wrong height and wrong horizontal position!

[DutyDruid]

5 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Re the standard 4 tank you need an extra piece of packing  for the bunker end as the coupling mount their is crazily set even further higher, 

Thanks for the heads up with that, next window for serious modelling is Tuesday and I will have a look then...

[DutyDruid]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

Presumably that means the T/L couplings each end aren't the same?

At least on the 45XX they were, even if they were at the wrong height and wrong horizontal position!

Correct, the front one is straight through but the rear one is cranked.  

[Butler Henderson]

23 hours ago, melmerby said:

Presumably that means the T/L couplings each end aren't the same?

The T/L at the bunker end of the Std 4 tank has a larger crank in it that normally provided by Bachmann.