Kadee Couplers

[corax67]

If you are drilling/tapping Kadee's then you have 2 options

 

 

A ) the Kadee set #246 which contains the pilot drill, clearance drill and tap in one package

 

B ) separately purchasing a 2-56 tap and a #43 drill

 

 

The #246 is probably the cheaper and simpler option unless you have a really good tool store nearby as postage costs are so high these days.

Edited December 14, 2013 by corax67

[naugytrax]

(Sorry, redundant post. I didn't see corax67's reply above!)

Edited December 14, 2013 by naugytrax

[brian777999]

All of my wagons are fitted with 3 link couplers. If I were to fit Kadees then the 3 link couplers would have to be removed. Does anybody make a plastic hook which could be fitted to the end of the wagon for appearance sake ? I have not seen anything on the market.

[The Bigbee Line]

If you are drilling/tapping Kadee's then you have 2 options

 

 

A ) the Kadee set #246 which contains the pilot drill, clearance drill and tap in one package

 

B ) separately purchasing a 2-56 tap and a #43 drill

 

 

The #246 is probably the cheaper and simpler option unless you have a really good tool store nearby as postage costs are so high these days.

The #246 set is really useful.  There are many other applications where a 2/56 machine screw can replace a push fitting.

[Budgie]

I use 8 BA nuts and bolts for that. Metric machine screws are also available.

[Guest]

I am about to convert most of my stock to Kadees so have been following this thread closely. Thanks for the suggestions and comments

 

I have about 50 trains, wagons carriages to do. A couple may take the NEM-style Kadee but most couplings will need to be screwed on. 

 

Prices here in Oz seem high. So I am looking for a source of self tapping screws suitable for the Kadees - 5 and 10 mm lengths.

 

Shops that deduct VAT would be ideal but not essential if the price is right.

 

Cheers

[Dunsignalling]

All of my wagons are fitted with 3 link couplers. If I were to fit Kadees then the 3 link couplers would have to be removed. Does anybody make a plastic hook which could be fitted to the end of the wagon for appearance sake ? I have not seen anything on the market.

I use whitemetal ones from Dart Castings, they come from the old MJT range and the reference number is 2953.

 

John

[JZ]

If you want Kadees in bulk I suggest buying direct from the US. With the GB£ doing well against the US$, I really don't understand why prices have risen over here. Walthers sell the NEM ones for $4.86, equivalent to £2.89 at today's rate. Bearing in mind that a UK retailer will pay Kadee the same as Walthers, or any other retailer, Kadee not being known for bulk discounts, the only extra should be shipping and I don't think they will be getting half a dozen at a time.

[MikeHunter]

Hi All, I'm slowly converting to Kadees, I'm finding NEM Kadees very frustrating on Bachmann stock, please Kadee can we have over shank and under shank versions? My older stock is proving easier with draft greaboxes, but many locos are a pain. Can anyone suggest the best solution for a Hornby Black 5, I have 5036 converted, but used a shank only ( no gearbox,) and this isn't great for coupling to stock.

 

Just converted an old Ima LMS GUV, there was no room between the bogies and the frames for gearboxes, I found a centre height shank fitted easily using the original screws from the tension locks. It runs beautifully.

[47137]

I had similar frustrations a couple of years ago and started this thread:

Preferred height for Kadee couplers on UK 4mm scale models

 

This evolved into seven pages in the end. I know, no-one wrote about the Black 5, but perhaps there are some useful ideas in there.

 

- Richard.

[brian777999]

So it would seem that the most useful Kadees for UK stock are the numbers 18, 19 and 20. Which one is used for the common Bachmann or Dapol 4 wheel open wagons ? I have not seen any mention of the Bachmann EZ mate NEM knuckle couplers. Are these not popular at all ? They are much cheaper than Kadees.

Edited December 19, 2015 by brian777999

[frobisher]

So it would seem that the most useful Kadees for UK stock are the numbers 18, 19 and 20. Which one is used for the common Bachmann or Dapol 4 wheel open wagons ?

You really need a selection of types, and a certain amount of trial and error to find the right one that matches your layout's curves.

 

I have not seen any mention of the Bachmann EZ mate NEM knuckle couplers. Are these not popular at all ? They are much cheaper than Kadees.

They're only available in one length, and not as well engineered as the Kadees. However, they do have some advantages in certain circumstances. Because the knuckle isn't on a swivel like the Kadee NEMs, they sometimes are a better choice for coaching stock with close coupling mechanisms, especially where the NEM box is a bit further back than it perhaps should be. The Bachmann MK2's work better with these than the Kadee 20's.

 

It would be nice if Kadee produced variants without the swivel for such uses.

[roundhouse]

So it would seem that the most useful Kadees for UK stock are the numbers 18, 19 and 20. Which one is used for the common Bachmann or Dapol 4 wheel open wagons ? I have not seen any mention of the Bachmann EZ mate NEM knuckle couplers. Are these not popular at all ? They are much cheaper than Kadees.

Most of my Bachamnn 4 wheel wagons are of the type with the incorrect height NEM box for Kadees. Newer releases have nowgeerally been changed so that a Kadee 18 - 20 is now at the correct height.

 

With mine, I removed the NEM housing and glued a Kadee number 5 in its box to the space left by the housing.

 

The big thing to watch is that the back of the inside of the knuckle is no further in than the buffers heads otherwise coupling up can be troublesome.

[Richard Lee]

I find that I have used 17s, 18s, 19s and 20s  It all depends upon layout specific things like your minimum curve radius, though.

 

Edit: Did a quick count of my current stock:

 

9 vehicles use number 17s both ends

21 vehicles use number 18s

3 vehicles use number 20s

2 brake 3rd coaches use number 19s on the outer ends of the rake, and 17s on the ends which couple to other coaches.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Richard Lee

[Dunsignalling]

You really need a selection of types, and a certain amount of trial and error to find the right one that matches your layout's curves.

 

 

They're only available in one length, and not as well engineered as the Kadees. However, they do have some advantages in certain circumstances. Because the knuckle isn't on a swivel like the Kadee NEMs, they sometimes are a better choice for coaching stock with close coupling mechanisms, especially where the NEM box is a bit further back than it perhaps should be. The Bachmann MK2's work better with these than the Kadee 20's.

 

It would be nice if Kadee produced variants without the swivel for such uses.

Disabling the swivel mount behind the knuckle means the loss of the delayed uncoupling facility but is simple enough to achieve with a small, well-placed spot of superglue.

 

However, knuckle couplers are not ideal for use between coaches fitted with close-coupling linkages - they are a great improvement on tension locks but still have too much slack to enable the CCUs to function optimally.  

 

I am a long-time user (and fan) of Kadee couplers but the Roco/alternative Hornby couplers perform better within sets of coaches and I fit Kadees to the outer ends only.

 

Obviously, 'loose' vehicles require Kadees at either end and my practice will not suit if you wish/need to be able to run coaches in any order.      

 

John

[roundhouse]

Yes I agree regarding the Roco couplings asxI use them on the inner connections on my Czech coaches. However they are quite fragile in comparison to Kadees and tension lock couplings

 

Edited for autocorrect and mistyping

Edited December 19, 2015 by roundhouse

[Dunsignalling]

Yes I agree regarding the Roco couplings asxI use them on the inner connections on mybCzech coaches. However they are quite fragile in comparison to aka fees and sat ensign lock couplings

I think pretty much anything is fragile in comparison to a Kadee.........

 

John

[JZ]

Like others, I have removed the NEM slot from incorrect height wagons and replaced with #5. All newer stock mostly take #18, with a few #19. But if you have Presflos, these need #17. Also keep a few #20 for the odd loco that needs them. With rakes of coaches, I also just fit the outer ends with Kadee, but use either a rigid link or the 'Bemo' type for making mixed formations. It would be nice if someone would make rigid links with differing lengths.

[Dunsignalling]

Like others, I have removed the NEM slot from incorrect height wagons and replaced with #5. All newer stock mostly take #18, with a few #19. But if you have Presflos, these need #17. Also keep a few #20 for the odd loco that needs them. With rakes of coaches, I also just fit the outer ends with Kadee, but use either a rigid link or the 'Bemo' type for making mixed formations. It would be nice if someone would make rigid links with differing lengths.

Bachmann make various rigid links (some electrically conducting) for use with various DMUs and modern container wagons.

 

They vary in length but don't quote measurements so it's a matter of trial and error which will suit what.

 

Another (cheaper) option is the flat blade connectors that form part of the original Keen Systems CCUs - these are glued into pockets but are fairly easy to adjust. If you need longer, don't glue fully home, if shorter file a bit off the pocket. These have the advantage that they can be parted manually for easy handling of coaches.

 

Unfortunately, they aren't listed separately but you should be able to use their manual buckeyes in a similar way.  

 

Both are clearly illustrated on www.keen-systems.com (usual disclaimer)

 

John

Edited December 19, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[JZ]

Yes, I have made use of these on coaches with no close coupling.

[96701]

Yes I agree regarding the Roco couplings asxI use them on the inner connections on mybCzech coaches. However they are quite fragile in comparison to aka fees and sat ensign lock couplings

Auto correct is a wonderful thing. I think I know what you were getting at.

[roundhouse]

Trying to type on an iPad in the car (whilst not driving) doesn't work too well!

[Phatbob]

Yes I agree regarding the Roco couplings asxI use them on the inner connections on my Czech coaches. However they are quite fragile in comparison to Kadees and tension lock couplings

 

Edited for autocorrect and mistyping

I generally use the Fleischmann Profi coupling within rakes, rather than the Roco / Hornby pattern ones, as they are a great deal more robust.  Once the outer prong+ hook thingy on the Roco / Hornby type gets bent, they're scrap. :-(  The Fleischmann ones are much more tolerant of being shoved into a stuck-box in a hurry at the end of an exhibition. :-)

As for NEM fit Kadees, start with a #18 and take it from there.  I've used all 4 sizes of plug-in Kadee couplings, but on UK stock probably 50% of them are #18s. 

For the non-NEM ones, #5s work well enough, but the draw boxes have to stick-out a bit beyond the buffer stock.  For a flush fit, a #46 (or #146) is usually the right length.

HTH,

BOb.

[roundhouse]

I generally use the Fleischmann Profi coupling within rakes, rather than the Roco / Hornby pattern ones, as they are a great deal more robust.  Once the outer prong+ hook thingy on the Roco / Hornby type gets bent, they're scrap. :-(  The Fleischmann ones are much more tolerant of being shoved into a stuck-box in a hurry at the end of an exhibition. :-)

As for NEM fit Kadees, start with a #18 and take it from there.  I've used all 4 sizes of plug-in Kadee couplings, but on UK stock probably 50% of them are #18s. 

For the non-NEM ones, #5s work well enough, but the draw boxes have to stick-out a bit beyond the buffer stock.  For a flush fit, a #46 (or #146) is usually the right length.

HTH,

BOb.

totally agree except that the number 5s will fit with a bit of filing of the rear of the NEM mounting and the slight dimple under the floor

[Phatbob]

totally agree except that the number 5s will fit with a bit of filing of the rear of the NEM mounting and the slight dimple under the floor

Agreed.

A bit of background information for those unfamiliar with Kadees.  The reason that it's helpful to know that #5s can be used on wagons with NEM pockets instead of the NEM couplings is as follows.

All Kadee couplings are supplied in bags of four.  Number 5s (and AFAIK only #5s) are also supplied in bulk packs as they are the size that fits nearly all US H0 stock. These means that they can be had for about half the price of the others if you have a large amount of stock to convert.

The #5s have to be made up from a kit of parts and some wagons require a bit of fettling with a scalpel and file to get the right fit.

So, if you are cash rich and time poor, go for the NEM ones.

If you are cash poor and time rich, go for #5s, kill a few happy hours and save some £o££€¥.

HTH,

Bob.