angell328 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Hi all, I have a liking for all things engineering and have always wanted to build up a decent breakdown crane set. As I have one of the QQV breakdown coaches on its way to me (cheers steve!) I thought it only right to have a crane to go with it. I bought the good old Hornby 75 ton crane as its the best on the market (in my humble opinion) but it is starting to show its age and I thought it could do with some updating and detailing. Thanks to some of the previous threads on here and Paul Bartletts excellent site I had enough to go on. So here follows my attempt at updating the venerable kit. I would like to point out that this isn't going to be the 100% replica of the original but a good close copy to the best of my skills. Most of the measurements will be by eye and to capture the look not the blueprint! To start with a few pictures to show the crane to those not familiar with it. [/img] [/img] Its a good solid model,(in many ways!) that I'm sure would have seen lots of playtime on the track. The general look of it feels right too. You can see the left over of the steam crane about it by the chimney hole and boiler look of the back. This will have to go as I will be modeling the diesel version. [/img] Also there is no cab, and the counter wieght should overhang the rear and not flush with the bogie. This will be easy enough to sort out by cutting the back end off! Sounds drastic but time to be brave! Its also good that I got this kit off ebay at half the retail price, so if it does go horribly wrong then wont feel too bad on the pocket! I also intend to remove those heavy duty chains and build up the pulley system as on the real thing with some good thread. Then it will be a case of making the sides look a bit busier with parts from my spares box and making a elevating roof to cover the workings. The match trucks are looking good as they are and will hopefully only need minor work to bring them up to standard. Bit of shaping, painting and some three links and all will be good, i hope! Thanks for reading and I will post more as I go on. If any of you have any questions please feel free to ask, laugh, mock or encourage! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 Well this afternoon I took the plunge and started to take the old girl appart and got out the razor saw! I cut off the back end and extended it out so the overhang looked about right. The steel rule is there to keep the cab level as without the jib on she is very tail heavy now! After i was happy with the diamensions it was time to knock up some sides to form the cab. The cab has a door with window and also another window further forward on the cab side. The door sits in slightly so i had to make that up as a separate part. I decided to use some of the crane body as the cabside to as looking at the pics the crane workings seem to start further forward than on the model. Once i was happy with the cab walls I fitted the doors As the engine compartment/counter wieght now hangs over the back end of the bogie I thopught it best to cover over the now exposed hole. I also added a step onto the back of the overhang as seen on the prototype. As you can see, the step had to be contoured to allow the crane to rotate above the bogie without contact. The mounting bar for the pulleys is fitted to far forward on the model, so I drilled two 1.5mm holes further back so the bar fits just in front of the cab now. As time was drawing close to going off for my night shift I had a quick go at fitting a cab roof to see how things would look when fitted and to highlight any spots that would need filing for a smooth contoured roof. As you can see a bit of work to do yet! Well untill tomorrow! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Dear all For anyone interested in the steam period livery and use of these cranes there is a splendid series of photographs in the current (November 2010) Steam World. It is of DB966112 working on a rare old mess at Sandy in 1964, just a few years after delivery in 1961. Co-incidentally the smash does mean there are some interesting photographs of conflat decks, container roofs, LNER vacuum brake rigging - on a van which has only very recently been generally repaired from the lack of road dust on the running gear (interesting detail the vacuum cylinder is in freight stock red (bauxite) on the inner surfaces but is black on the outer part which shows!). Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabdiel Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Excellent. I don't think I've seen anyone do the diesel version before. I've got a red version somewhere which I bought second hand ages ago. I might try converting it into the diesel crane as I have fond memories of getting up in the middle of the night to watch them working in the cutting behind our house when I was about 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 Zabdiel Have a go! Its amazing what bits laying around and a tub of glue can create! May look a bit bodgit and scarper now, but a layer of paint and a bit of weathering can hide so many many sins! Well managed to get a bit more done today. First of all I made a roof to cover the cab I made yesterday. I deceided to have it continue to the end of the engine compartment so it would cover the hole where the chimney use to sit. Then I made a new back wall to cover over the boiler detail. Once everything is complete I will scribe panel line onto the new plastic to show the access hatches ect. Then it was a case of going through my old spares bit to find if I had anything that could recreate the look of the pulley wheels for the main jib. Being an avid kid builder as well as train fan means I have build up a fair selection of left over parts from everything from tanks to boats. It was ten I came accross these little beauties! They are a set of wheels from an old 1/72 half track kit. Stuck together and drilled out to 1.5mm to fit over the arm i think they look fairly close! A bit deep maybe, but some filler should take care of that! Then I turned my attension to the side detail. On the real crane there is what looks like a cover for the chain gear for either the gearbox or chain from gearbox to the cable spool. this was recreated using the spare front ends from a 1/35 german Panzer tank! I will need to fill in the cut out and fix some bearing cup covers on but not a bad fit! The air tank was again an armour spare that sits lovely on the side after I had removed all the raised detail from the side of the crane. So this is where I managed to get too before night shift called again! Next I am hoping to put a bit of interior detail to the cab and glaze the windows. Once That is done I should be able to close up the roof and continue on with the side detail and second cable drum. Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowvanman Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 looking good Matt ..will be checking for further updates ..you may have seen it ,but there a `crane` thread in prototypes at the mo ..cheers YVM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Look at www.ontrackplant.com for photos of cranes. A twin site on departmentals has support vehicle photos if interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabdiel Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 looking good Matt ..will be checking for further updates ..you may have seen it ,but there a `crane` thread in prototypes at the mo ..cheers YVM. This one: prototype rail mounted cranes thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 From a previous version of the forum. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35462&hilit=+crane#p544246 J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 Hi all, Many thanks for the kind comments and links. They have certainly helped fill some holes in my research. Thanks to Standman Link I now have some very good pictures of the left (port) side of the crane and have found now that I need some etch grill to fit! Jonhall, I dont think I will get anywhere near your level of a rebuild! That is really quiet something Major kudos to you sir! Popped down to see my friend and fellow rmwebber stevieb today as he has a few interesting things going on on his workbench. Whilst I was here he happened to mention his Hornby crane had turned up in the post! So it was time for a few comparison pics! As you can see there is a bit of differance to the old girl now. Steve also mentioned that now his is here would I be interested in doing crane MK2 when Ive done mine! What have I let myself in for now?!! Cheers For watching, hopefully have some more updates for you guys tonight. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Nice project Matt. I always had a soft spot for these cranes. It's great to see kit/scratch building/bashing on this scale, with loads of bits going together from other bits of kits. The main thing that stands out to me with these models are the bogies and chassis and how plasticky and "one part" they look. Do you have modification plans for these parts or carefull weathering ideas? Also, it's good to see a man with brown paint blathered all over his cutting mat......looks familiar Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 Evening all, Today I have been working on the cable and pulley system for the raising of the jib and the hook. First I made some connecting rods from plasticard to support the front set of jib pulleys. The pulleys where more wheels from the tank set. This was then fixed to the jib with some 1.5mm metal rod. I used some thread around 0.5mm thick to represent the cable. I have yet to make the tiebar used to attach the cable to the rear frame assembly. I just tied it on for the mo! Once the thread was routed correctly it holds the jib quiet happily. For the hook I used yet more tank wheels with some plasticard cut to shape. I have yet to find anything in my spares box to make a convincing hook. Another pair of tank wheels held in the jib using 1.5mm wire represent the top pulley for the hook wiring. Some more thread routed through the pulleys and the hook is hanging! Using some more parts from the spares box I built up the junction boxes, hydraulics and storage boxes on the side walls of the crane. Once everything is dried in place I will use some wire to make the different pipe and wire runs. Using a wire guide from a class 50 cab (cheers steve!) I made the exhaust exiting from the rear of the engine compartment. Thats about all for today. Hope your enjoying watching as much as I'm enjoying building! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 Hi Andy, Love kit bashing and building, been into military modelling for years. That brown will be a mix of tamiya red brown, and hull red from lots of tank kits! Re the chassis. Hmmmm yes it is a bit solid and I was looking at drilling few bits out but I think that will then just show how thick the kit is! So yes, a good bit of weathering and oil washes to bring out the detail and a good job uptop will hopefully pull the eye away from the chassis lack of tallent so to speak! Thanks for the comments, Hope you enjoy the rest of the build. Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I like what you have done here very much, Matt. I bought a cheap and slightly damaged version of this crane at a local swap meet, with a view to improving it somewhat. I added a roof extension forward of the rear weight/engine compartment but never thought of doing what you did and extending it backwards. The improvements to the rigging are great and very inspirational - I must redo mine, now you have made it look so "ordinary"!!!    Also inspirational are your ideas for materials for the rigging; absolutely brilliant!  I'll look forward to further developments and also to basking in your shadow when I can copy some of your ideas.    B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb860 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Goodness Mr A, don't you ever sleep? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Military modellers and scientists view sleep as an outdated concept Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 Hi Srman, Thanks for the very kind words. I'm glad I have given you some ideas for having ago at tinkering with your crane. It's amazing what you can find laying around that will do a job if you look at it a bit different. Also 10 years work of hording every spare part I had left over helps! As for basking in my shadow! Well, I wouldn't go that far, you might give me an ego! And Mr B you know very well that I dont sleep! Well unless the suns in the sky! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 14, 2010 Author Share Posted November 14, 2010 Hi all, Well today I have been detailing the sidewalls with some more boxes, hydraulic resiviours, electrical junction boxes and wiring. Before I fitted the roof I thought the insides looked a bit bland. In my spares box I found a radio panel from a german tank. (I know most of my spares come from german tanks but dont worry I make allied armour and aircraft too!) It is probably miles away from the prototype but adds a bit of interest to the insides. The section under the cable drums looked odd as a square hole, so a fitted a thin sheet of plasticard to contour the insides in a shallow slope. Then I got busy with some beading wire of various thicknesses to represent cable and pipe runs on the outside walls. The inside of the cab was sprayed a light gray and once that was dry I fitted windows using some clear plastic from some packaging. This then allowed me to fix the roof and then sand the edges to a smooth contour. Once I had a cup of tea and a biscuit everything had set enough to allow handling. I wasnt happy with the way the supporting rods didnt sit square on the jib. I found an old plastic shell and drilled it out to make a shim. This held the arms against the outside edge of the jib making everything sit much better. A quick rummage through the spares box found a cable eye end. This fitted over the rear pulley frame spot on allowing me an anchor point for the raising cabling. A few minutes of swearing at thread not going where it was ment too and I was happy with the rigging! The intake grill on the left side of the cab was taken care of by a Panther Tank intake screen (cheers steve!) Just the right size! I have made a front cover roof, it is just rested on for the moment but certainly adds an almost finished touch! Thinking of using a swann-morton foil pack to make a hinge (thanks again steve!) It will be thin enough and strong enough. Also will look a good copy of the felt used on the real thing. Once I had the crane like this I couldn't resist setting her up on my layout with my Dutch 08! Well next will be a light spray in undercoat to show up the, no doubt, hundreds of imperfections that will need fettling! Until then Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Hey Matt. One thing I haven't figured out how to do is to replace the wheels with some to finer standards. The need to keep the axles floating to allow the crane to go around "trainset" curves means one can't just replace them with pinpoint axles. Have you had any ideas for yours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 hi all, Today has been spent working out problems. SRman question came at a very good time as myself and steve have been discussing the best way to get around the problem of the old Hornby wheel set. I wasnt to concerned on the look as about 90% of the wheel is hidden. As I use code 75 finescale track it became essential to sort out the wheels as the main bogie bumps away over the sleepers! First I was just going to turn down the flange of the wheel with my dremel as it span in the frame until enough had been worn away. This would have hopefully kept it even. Then over a cup of tea at steves we went through his spares box. We came up with a set of 14mm coach wheels that suited. Unfortunatly the wheels on the crane are on a solid bar so the frame is to wide to hold the wheels. Hopefully some packing and some bearings will take care of that problem. Once they are all in I will test it on steves layout as his has curves! If I have problems with locking up on the curves I will remove the flange on the inner two wheels, just like the old tenders. See how that works! If I dont have any joy with these approches I expect I will get a spare bogie and start again! Whilst I was down at steves, took the opertunity for some more comparison pics! Also heres a pic of the crane with on of the breakdown coach kits steve is working on, hoping to have a nice rake soon! Hope to have some pics of the crane with some paint on for you next. cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Impressive work Matt! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb860 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Nice breakdown coach Matt, Oh it's mine lol. Can't wait to see the crane under a coat of paint. Southern Pride are working on decal sets for their breakdown coaches, plus a generic set , so life has got a little easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Pic for you http://www.ontrackplant.com/photo/paddington-1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Hi, your crane is looking good, I used to work with ADRC 96708, when it was based at Tyseley TMD. I know that the Hornby crane is short in length in the jib, but it isnt that noticable, what is though, is the fact that there are two hooks, the main hoist, which you have modelled, and an auxilliary hoist, only the 76tonne cranes had this, all others only had a single hoist. It just goes to show, that with a box of bits, the Hornby crane can be made to look good. Keep up the good work. Regards R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 Evening all, First off thanks for the comments and links. Its nice to know that you guys are enjoying this thread as much as I am creating it! Stadman, is that link a subtle hint at what to do when I have built the second one?! Nice detail of the cranes at work, cheers! Now I have managed to get a fair bit done today due to the fact I was off work this afternnon due to being numb and dribbling , the joys of the dentist! First off I tackled the crane bogie. I filled the instep with plasticard as the new wheels fit nicely at that width. Once the card had set i drilled a small pilot hole from the outside of the bogie though the centre of the axle box. This was to ensure the wheels would all be lined up. I then opened up the holes from the inside so they would accept the bearing cups. It was then the job of getting four wheels, two wieghts and two couplings to all stay put whilst I put the two halves together, not the easiest of jobs, espcially when your trying not to drool over everything! Whilst the glue was drying on the bogie I got the Tamiya hull red out to get a coat of paint to the crane and jib. This serves two perposes, one to show up imperfections in the filling and match of panels (there was lots!), and two to give a preshading to the kit. Several light coats of yellow over the top of this will allow the hull red to show though on panel lines and deep spots. Gives a much better depth to the finished colour. Then it was time to sort out the buffers and couplings on the match trucks. The crane match truckes had there buffers removed and coupling mounting point removed from one. I replaced the buffers with the Bachmann round sprung type as they look a lot better plus this will hopefully help with any possible buffer lock as I am using three links. Although the chance of the crane ever going around tight curves is very very minimal! I left one of the match trucks with a tension lock on, although I did use one of the Bachmann slim types. The jib match truck had the same three link treatment, although took a fair ammount of chopping and cutting the inside to allow enough room for the draw bar. I wasnt happy with the jib support structure on the jib match truck as it is too wide. This was a simple case of cutting it off and then removing some of the width before gluing it back together again! The remaining part on the truck had the sides nibbled out untill it was the same width as the newly cut jib support. The holes at the bottom where covered over with plasticard. Not a bad days work! Just left to show the obligatary set up shot with my Dutch 08! Until tomorrow people as I'm going to have an early night tonight before the painkillers wear off! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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