Ron Ron Ron Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Pictures of painted samples of the 350's are on the Bachmann site Will they make it in time for Warley? Probably not, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 All this excitement about the WEST COAST based multiple units, whilst those of us on the east don't have anything RTR, and there are a lot more options available:- 313 / 314 / 315, 317 / 318, 319 (a large class both north and south of the Thames) 320 / 321 / 322, and the 365's So Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol - and all you commisioning retailers, five possibilities for you. And you also have the newer classes like the 333's and the Heathrow sets. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 All this excitement about the WEST COAST based multiple units, whilst those of us on the east don't have anything RTR, and there are a lot more options available:- 313 / 314 / 315, 317 / 318, 319 (a large class both north and south of the Thames) 320 / 321 / 322, and the 365's So Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol - and all you commisioning retailers, five possibilities for you. And you also have the newer classes like the 333's and the Heathrow sets. It is far from perfect, I know, but give them a chance! ANY AC EMU in rtr form is a triumph over the Kettle and diseasal - a - holic norm and should be praised and encouraged as much as possible. If we don't, then there might not be any others. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 A 321 would have wider interest as the similar bodyshells were used on LM, GER, WYPTE, Stansted Express, and as 3 car units in Scotland. OK, there were bodyside window differences between the first batch of GE Class 321s and the later LM based versions, but I'm sure Bachmann would be able to work something out. They might even be able to work out a way to use the same mouldings with different front ends for a 319. The livery options would be enormous and ought to generate quite a bit of interest and sales I would have thought. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The livery options would be enormous and ought to generate quite a bit of interest and sales I would have thought. This is the real question. With no OEMUs on the market yet, the demand is unknown. After years of saying that EMUs would not sell well, Bachmann finally took the plunge with the 4-CEP. The results clearly convinced them the market was bigger than they thought as the 2-EPB was not far behind. Hornby also jumped on the bandwagon with the 4-VEP. I suspect the same will be the case with the 350, it will be used as a litmus test for the market as a whole. The choice of the 350 is quite a good one as it has a decent number of liveries and also offers easy pickings for the 360 and 450 in the future. Perhaps a success of the Desiro will prompt Hornby to look at other EMU families such as the Electrostar or Mk3 suburban units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Does the 350 really have a decent number of liveries, seriously? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 All this excitement about the WEST COAST based multiple units, whilst those of us on the east don't have anything RTR As above, give em' a chance! Leaving aside the rather specialised Javelin's this is the first EVER AC electric MU from a major supplier, so they have to start somewhere...if this does well then expect them to look for other possibilities, if it bombs then expect them to not bother. Does the 350 really have a decent number of liveries, seriously? Um, well I think really only 2 so far on the specific tooling, but potentially you can add TPX to that in the future - plus I still think it will translate into an SWT 450 fairly easily, even if the other 20m desiro's (360s for FGE/NXEA and Heathrow Connect) never appear. One oft-overlooked plus is you can use the 350/1 as a DC unit too... Have to say I don't think it's a bad choice, but with ALL EMUs being somewhat parochial in terms of operating area the 350 (useful anywhere between Euston and Preston? at the moment and in the future right up to Glasgow) do have a good spread. If the variations between the 319/320/321/322 are coverable then I agree they might be worth a look, Interestingly Bachmann should have a rolling chassis for these already from the 150s... The Mk3 MUs are already available in some form via Bratchell's custom service though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The Mk3 MUs are already available in some form via Bratchell's custom service though... True but Bratchell charge around £300 for an RTR 4-car unit. The 4-CEP is less than half that and I suspect they will try to keep future units around the same price point. I used to model overhead electrics in the days when the only option for MK3 EMUs were MTK kits. Bratchell's offerings (nice though they are) are not priced at a level that would tempt me. However if there were units at the price of a 4-CEP I would think again.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The 350 is a pretty canny choice by Bachmann for a dip into the market. They are contemporary, and should appeal to a similar market to their own Voyager and the Hornby Pendolino (the "moving onwards from the trainset" market Hornby targeted with the Pendolino) so I suspect it could do quite well. It also just overlaps into the last days of loco-hauled trains on the West Coast, and although liveries are slightly restricted to two, assuming they do the logical thing and make a 450 you do have the option of a third. There again, the 4-CEP only has green, all-over blue and blue/grey and a similarly limited operating range, so it seems having a wide geographical reach and dozens of liveries to choose from doesn't seem to be as important as some of us perhaps thought. Can't help thinking the "Dessie" could well become a must-have model for people prepared to risk penalty points on their modeller's licence if the pictures of the test mouldings, and the reaction to them, are anything to go by. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 It is looking rather good - may be very tempted by the N gauge version despite it breaking every rule I normally stick to (too modern, not nearby, not nearby where I grew up) apart from "It's my railway". I'll look dead good next to the 4CEP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 True but Bratchell charge around £300 for an RTR 4-car unit. Plus you then have to motorise it on top of that.... I agree with all your points, and a mainstream RTR release is sure to sell more purely by virtue that it will be out there on shop shelves and not effectively made to order, but thought it was worth pointing out that there were *some* options available already if the Mk3 based units are something that somebody is desperate for... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2011 Does the 350 really have a decent number of liveries, seriously? No two at most, but then Bachmanns first venture into EMUs, the CEP (in its origional condition) only had 3 and this did not afect sales. As other posters have pointed out though, the 350s do have a wide opperating range geographically and are a 'nice fit' with things like Pendalinos, Voyagers, 66s, turbostars, 153s etc all of which are avalable in RTR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Does the 350 really have a decent number of liveries, seriously? two at most, Well, 2 officially, but there were the slight livery variations and hybrids a few years back (2007ish) on the original silver/grey and blue liveried ones when the green first appeared. Grey cab window surrounds with reduced yellow front end anyone? I'll get me coat. Edited November 1, 2011 by 303013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 At a pinch, the 350/1 could be used on a Southern layout as they were "borrowed" for a short time. There are photos of the liveried units calling at Croydon on third rail. Personally, I'm waiting for the inevitable class 450 to follow. While Bachmann have not announced any such intention, I think it is a certainty. We just don't know when it will be produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Personally, if the TOC didn't faff about with slightly different designs, and had them all the same, then a class 380 would be most nice! Actually, is a '379 possible or is it different like the '444? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Actually, is a '379 possible or is it different like the '444? 379s are by Bombardier, so closer to a 377 than a 350/450. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 379s are by Bombardier, so closer to a 377 than a 350/450. Doh, of course they are! I realised that afterwards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Bachmann are showing the 350/1. in the natural Silverlink/Central colours in the next 60 days. Great Western, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Bachmann are showing the 350/1. in the natural Silverlink/Central colours in the next 60 days. Great Western, Ooh, the "Blue Pullman" Dessie arriving just in time for my birthday - that's timing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy P Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I have often wondered over the years, given that EMUs / DMUs are the common face of the modern railway, if this will ever be reflected in the modelling world, particularly in terms of R-T-R product. Bachmann's recent efforts are encouraging in this respect and it appears that the 350s will represent another significant sign of what we may expect in the future both in terms of a quality (and affordable) product and with regard to potential subject matter. The recent posts on this thread make for interesting reading. Thought provoking one might say. I hope I'm not too far off topic but bearing in mind that we can't expect everything at once, does anyone feel that there are some subjects that would usually be seen to tick all the right boxes for a viable R-T-R offering but have possibly missed the boat. Units that once would have been considered a must have for the modern image/D&E modeller but now are neither "new enough" or truly "Heritage". I'm not thinking of anything specific (OK, maybe I am) but just a general thought about the "state of the union". RP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Well, it took 25 years for a decent Class 150 sprinter to be made (sorry Dapol but...), and nigh on 40 years for a decent RTR Derby Class 108 to be made, so I suppose 5-6 years for a 350 is pretty quick by comparison! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrostar Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I think Bachmann should be commended for producing both the slam-door EMUs and the more modern Desiros, and I hope it's the start of a bigger expansion to include both classic and contemporary overhead units and third-rail stock. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the model will be critically-acclaimed and of the same standard as the 4CEP or higher. How do we think sales will compare between the blue-grey and London Midland liveries? I personally found the Silverlink-Central "shared user" blue-grey livery bland, and much prefer the detail of London Midland. However, I realise that by producing the blue-grey version first Bachmann are appealing to modellers who might also own Central units, Virgin Pendolinos and 87s etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 My gut feeling is the blue will not sell as well as it's not 'now' - but then there are two LM liveried ones being made and one Silverlink so it may all balance out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 These models look great on the (few) pre-production photos - I just hope they don't fill a coach with metal as they did on the Class 150. If they can get an underfloor motor into 'N' gauge models there's no excuse with '00'! There seems to be a common misconception that a manufacturer can simply 'modify the tooling' to produce a different model. I'm no manufacturing expert, but I imagine that in practice this would cost almost as much as making a new mould from scratch. Thinking about it, there are still design costs (modifying the CAD drawings to represent the different model), tooling costs (a new mould would need to be made for the different model, and I believe this bit is particularly expensive) and manufacturing set-up costs (i.e. a production line to apply different liveries and details to the different model). Personally I would love to see the Class 185 modelled, but I'm not holding my breath because bogies and basic body profile aside they are completely different from the 350. On the plus side, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before someone will be posting photos on here showing their conversion from a 350 to a 185, 450, etc. Cheers, Will 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The 185s are very different, the tooling would have to stretch for a start as they're longer The 450s are very close though.... And whilst a 185 is out of the question using this as a basis, TPX will probably have their own 350s within the next 2 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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