N C Keyser 7 plank private owner wagon, GWR Bogie coal wagon

[hayfield]

Those of you who have read a previous thread would have seen that I am collecting K's wagons. The 7 plank whitemetal kit was elluding me. I guess this may be one of the hardest to spot in the croud if its built and has no description. Thankfully a friend came to the rescue and found one in his loft and gave it to me which completes the set in whitemetal.

 

 

Well like busses once the whitemetal one came along I saw the hybrid on Ebay, I never knew that they did a part whitemetal part plastic kit. Then of course I had to buy the plastic version.

 

Unless there are more hybrids about I now only need the GWR bogie coal wagon to complete the plastic set, they are extreemly (only ever seen one and it was still in K's shrink wrap) rare. I have seen the 6 wheel tanker which had a metal tank first with a plastic tank so must keep a look out for one.

 

I have the GWR box van in whitemetal & plastic versions and the 6 wheel mink. I think though I could be wrong the SR 4 wheel utility van may have also been built in plastic as well, must have a look in the loft.

 

Have I missed anything or can anyone add to this please

[Il Grifone]

I can confirm the SR utility van as plastic. I got one on eBay recently complete with transfers, but haven't got around to building it. I started a 'meat' van several years ago, but it's still unfinished!

 

Was there a metal one? I thought it was only in plastic. Weight would be a problem here, like the LNWR coaches.

 

There was talk of the whole range being issued in plastic in the 80s, but it came to nothing. AFAIK, the plastic range was:-

 

GWR 'meat' van (really a goods van), 6w milk van and 40T loco coal wagon, RCH mineral and SR utility van.

 

I never got the loco coal as it was rather too specialised and uncommon, which is probably why the kit is hard to find now.

[hayfield]

The GWR Mink goods van first came out as a whitemetal kit, I have 2 though one has had different ends (ABS?) added. Right from the off K's called it a banana van I guess as a selling point. Weight is only a problem when either old Romford wheels or no pin point bearings.

 

Certainly for good running the minimum is pin point bearings and axles, but etched brass W irons square everything up. And unless you run long trains or have gradients the weight is not normally an issue

[hayfield]

Just had a recap of the SR utility vans and GWR GWR Syphons.

 

I have 2 whitemetal utility vans so I need to find a plastic one, The Syphon I have a hybrid with a plastic body and whitemetal under frame and an all plastic version. So will have to keep an eye out for the all whitemetal wersion. Must not let it become an obsession.

 

Thanks for the input

[Il Grifone]

And just when I thought I had most of the whitemetal ones, i find there's yet another.................

[hayfield]

As far as I know these are the whitemetal kits

 

GWR : 6 wheel tank wagon, Banana van, 20t mineral, Coral A, 16t brake van, 20t bulk grain & 6 wheel low syphon

 

LNER : GE sand wagon, Low mach, 24t hopper mineral, 12t box van, brake van

 

LMA : 15t brake van, 8t 3 plank wagon, shock asorbing wagon, Cattle wagon, HR twin wagon

 

SR : tarpaulin wagon, 25t brake van, 8T SECR box van

 

BR : Palbrick A, Palvan

 

7 plank PO wagon

[hmrspaul]

As far as I know these are the whitemetal kits

 

GWR : 6 wheel tank wagon, Banana van, 20t mineral, Coral A, 16t brake van, 20t bulk grain & 6 wheel low syphon

 

LNER : GE sand wagon, Low mach, 24t hopper mineral, 12t box van, brake van

 

LMA : 15t brake van, 8t 3 plank wagon, shock asorbing wagon, Cattle wagon, HR twin wagon

 

SR : tarpaulin wagon, 25t brake van, 8T SECR box van

 

BR : Palbrick A, Palvan

 

7 plank PO wagon

 

The 24.5t hopper was BR and not LNER. Unfortunately it was a unique prototype (Ks must have used the official photo for inspiration), the flat of the side came down lower than the flat of the side, whereas the production wagons had the flat of the side not as deep as the flat of the end - later altered so that both side and end had the same depth. see http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c128749.html

 

Ks seem to have been good at picking rare wagons - the GWR Coral A, bulk grain, syphon were all rare wagons - and I doubt there were many of the GER sand wagons - although good for loco depots.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Phil Traxson]

Unless there are more hybrids about I now only need the GWR bogie coal wagon to complete the plastic set, they are extreemly (only ever seen one and it was still in K's shrink wrap) rare. I have seen the 6 wheel tanker which had a metal tank first with a plastic tank so must keep a look out for one.

 

I have the GWR box van in whitemetal & plastic versions and the 6 wheel mink. I think though I could be wrong the SR 4 wheel utility van may have also been built in plastic as well, must have a look in the loft.

 

Have I missed anything or can anyone add to this please

 

I have a built up "K's" 40 ton loco coal wagon, allbeit on 'Ratio' bogies. As I am slowly getting rid of my 4mm stock (100 passenger vehicles, 40 loco's, 300+ wagons collected over the last 35 years) PM me if you are interested, I would rather they went to a good home than eventually to a dealer for 4 pence! I have two part built SR utility vans in plastic too if you need them.

 

Phil Traxson

[hayfield]

Thanks for that Paul, K's were a product of the 60's (if not earlier) customers started to want scale models, something better than what was available RTR. I guess what they got were 'as near to' models, books and plans were scarse, in fact people owned few books then so reference materials were not about.

 

These were a leap forward from the card/wood/stamped sheet metal models of the 50's and were far superior to those offered by the ready to run companies. Also they came at a time when money was not so tight and materials became available after rationing during the post war years. But most still had train sets and scratched built with available material most scenic items.

 

I doubt if most of the models are true scale, the banana van being a Mink. But they were good enough, and as for rare wagons I guess that is what people wanted. Having said that the GE sand wagon could have been painted in numerious liveries mostly private owner as would the the tanker. I even painted a LMS shockabsorber wagon in SR brown as I needed some SR wagons to go behing a SR 02 I built, it will be repainted.

[Il Grifone]

That seems to be the complete list AFAIK.

There were also GWR 4w third and 6w tri-compo coaches plus an autocoach (conversion from steam railmotor), LBSC and LNWR coaches and the SR utility van. In plastic, there was also a SIPHON F, a 40' brake van and a 20s B set for the GWR. The autocoach came with either a white metal or later a plastic roof. In addition the EMGS supplied a GER open, based on the sand wagon (much more useful) and a GWR van based on the banana van (likewise). Most are near to scale though the details are not always exact (incorrect axleboxes for example and the turned brass buffers, which are incorrect for almost everything).

 

The kits first appeared in the late 50s. I can remember building a banana van in BR livery in my youth (the prototype used to run on the Clifton Down branch at the bottom of the garden!). I can't remember how I got it to run on my HD 3 rail layout though. Probably I fitted Peco A/HD wheels, which would have made an expensive wagon with their couplings as well! (1/4d + 2/6d + the cost of the kit - 5 or 6 shillings IIRC). K's did an adapter for fitting Peco couplings (9d IIRC which was a little cheaper than the complete Peco coupling (1/6d + 9d versus 2/6). It also had the advantage of not requiring a floor to be made up for the vans. (Floors were a curious omission from the kits.

 

My example of the GWR 20T coal wagon (also to be seen across the fence) suffered from the axleguards being cast off centre) I made two attempts to assemble it . First with body square which would run properly and then with the axles square which required filling a large gap. I used plastic wood at the time with mixed success. It's now on the bench for a complete underframe to be fitted. Still in pieces following the failure of the first joint using 5 minute epoxy. I haven't got the courage to solder it! (I did succeed with the hopper part of the hopper wagon. (Interesting to read that it's a one off. That explains why I couldn't match it to a drawing. K's always referred to it as LNER IIRC.)

[hayfield]

David remove the W iron/axle box assembleys. Fit a floor plasticard/plywood/pcb board. Fit Etched W irons then refit the spring/axle boxes (after removing the W iron). Easy but very effective.

 

I also remove the inside fixing lugs that stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Some wagons (where the W irons are square) you can get away with one etched W iron and just use pinpoints in the axle holes at the other end, though I guess you could try with pinpoint bearings at both ends. A word of caution, taking the wheels out and putting them back again (for painting etc) will weaken the W iron struts. There are also inside bearing units but they may not be so free running.

 

I also have most of the coaches mentioned, pity the conversion back to a steam railmotor would be too hard for me.

[Il Grifone]

I've got a set of Peco W irons and axleboxes/springs (ex Wonderful Wagon) for it. It was assembled like this once, with a card floor, but somehow the solebars were too far apart. Wrong assembly probably, as a dry run seems OK. The new floor will be PCB (appears free of warping problems). It's removal of the lugs that causes it to keep falling apart!. Thay are handy as a rest for a coal load though. The raised panel "A K's model" has to go too.

[hayfield]

I have a built up "K's" 40 ton loco coal wagon, allbeit on 'Ratio' bogies. As I am slowly getting rid of my 4mm stock (100 passenger vehicles, 40 loco's, 300+ wagons collected over the last 35 years) PM me if you are interested, I would rather they went to a good home than eventually to a dealer for 4 pence! I have two part built SR utility vans in plastic too if you need them.

 

Phil Traxson

 

Phil I seemed to have missed your offer to PM you, I am sorry as I would have contacted you.

 

The other week I thought I had won one off Ebay, I took a gamble and brought 3 wagons. In the end I ended up with a Parkside Python (finished), Mink D (painted) and a Parkside ? (edit Cambrian) GWR 40T Loco Coal wagon (plastic underframe trussrods and Ratio bogies)

 

Today through the post came a K's (still shrink wrapped) GWR 40T Loco Coal wagon with 2 metal truss rods and K's whitemetal bogies. Now my K's wagon collection is complete all be it may be missing a couple of Hybrids as there.

 

The question is do I keep it as it is, or build it. I guess it will be the latter as the value to me is seeing them built.

 

Now if I was a plant enthuiast and had one of each of a type of plant it could be said I would have the "national collection of XXX", does that apply to model model railways. Still down 2 SR coaches and 1 LNWR for the full set, not too bothered about these

 

On the K's front last week I finaly won at a reasonable price a K's tram loco, sadly not 100% K's as the roof has been replaced with one made from brass. But then again many of the K's kits have had to have parts replaced.

[Fat Controller]

Phil I seemed to have missed your offer to PM you, I am sorry as I would have contacted you.

 

The other week I thought I had won one off Ebay, I took a gamble and brought 3 wagons. In the end I ended up with a Parkside Python (finished), Mink D (painted) and a Parkside ? GWR 40T Loco Coal wagon (plastic underframe trussrods and Ratio bogies)

 

Today through the post came a K's (still shrink wrapped) GWR 40T Loco Coal wagon with 2 metal truss rods and K's whitemetal bogies. Now my K's wagon collection is complete all be it may be missing a couple of Hybrids as there.

 

The question is do I keep it as it is, or build it. I guess it will be the latter as the value to me is seeing them built.

 

Now if I was a plant enthuiast and had one of each of a type of plant it could be said I would have the "national collection of XXX", does that apply to model model railways. Still down 2 SR coaches and 1 LNWR for the full set, not too bothered about these

 

On the K's front last week I finaly won at a reasonable price a K's tram loco, sadly not 100% K's as the roof has been replaced with one made from brass. But then again many of the K's kits have had to have parts replaced.

The 40t Loco Coal would be Cambrian, I think- it's just been reintroduced into their range.

[hayfield]

Could not remember whether it was Cambrian or Parkside, thanks.

 

Are the Ratio bogies supplied in the Cambrian kit or is it that the builder has changed them ?

[Fat Controller]

Could not remember whether it was Cambrian or Parkside, thanks.

 

Are the Ratio bogies supplied in the Cambrian kit or is it that the builder has changed them ?

The latter, I suspect;the majority of Cambrian bogies are now one-piece mouldings, but their early ones didn't always go together/stay together as well as they might...

I wonder how easy it might be to use one or more 40-tonners as a basis for some 21-tonners?

[Coach bogie]

The mink van in cast from, was altered at some stage. Although sold as a banana van, there were two different ends supplied over the years, standard two bonnet mink ends and the shuttered banana end. It then became a hybrid (plastic body cast/underframe), then a totally new moulding for an all plastic van based on a later mink with different doors.

 

The 40t coal wagon had incorrect bogies supplied One trick , back in the 70's was to swop the bogies with th BSL/Hobbytime bogie mink which also had incorrect bogies supplied.

 

I have a pair of all cast PO wagons supplied on the shrink wrap card, another packaging variation.

 

I have several K's wagons running, built in my younger years. I still like them, especially the grain wagons.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Several unbuilt on eBay at the moment including Corals and 40t bogie coal. Search under Keyser rather than K's and they should come up.

[roythebus]

Rummaging through my collection of unfinished bits to put on eBay, I've got a couple of the late Black 5s, unfinished with some bits missing, but fitted with portescap motors. I don't know where the tenders are. comparing the Ks kit with the late Hornby model, it's remarkably accurate for K's.

 

I just sold an 0-6-0 chassis on Ebay for about a tenner, and have a BR Palbrick fitted to an Airfix meat van chassis and an LBSCR brake coach in cast metal. there may be a Stanier 2-6-4T around somewhere too and a Met 4-4-0. PM me if anyone's interested.

[hayfield]

Rummaging through my collection of unfinished bits to put on eBay, I've got a couple of the late Black 5s, unfinished with some bits missing, but fitted with portescap motors. I don't know where the tenders are. comparing the Ks kit with the late Hornby model, it's remarkably accurate for K's.

 

I just sold an 0-6-0 chassis on Ebay for about a tenner, and have a BR Palbrick fitted to an Airfix meat van chassis and an LBSCR brake coach in cast metal. there may be a Stanier 2-6-4T around somewhere too and a Met 4-4-0. PM me if anyone's interested.

 

To maximise your returns sell the Portescap seperatly, as I doubt if those who want a Portescap want a K's loco. I think they sell for around £70 and I guess those who buy them have factored out the value of the loco and you would get the same with or without the loco. Additionally those who would like a cheap loco kit body would be willing to pay a few pounds for it.

 

The Palbrick will have a value, and the LBSCR brakes go for £15 to £20

 

The Stainer may be a Wills on a HD chassis, quite common but sell. The Met 4-4-0 (Milestone Tank?) is reasonably rare and sells well. Good photo(s) and decent description allways pushes up the prices

[Poor Old Bruce]

I have a (now unwanted) GWR Auto Coach kit in original vacuum packaging if anyone is interested.

[burgundy]

 

............ the LBSCR brakes go for £15 to £20

 

 

Ooops.

My current project is to backdate some K's Brighton 4 wheelers from their 1920's Isle of Wight condition to about 1880 as an 8 coach block set. In other words, I have just butchered about £150 worth of historic castings that probably originate from the days when Harold MacMillan was Prime Minister!

Does anyone know when K's first produced these kits?

Best wishes

Eric

[hayfield]

Eric

 

You have probably inhanced the value of the coaches, any 4 or 6 wheeled kit built and painted to a reasonable standard sells well.

 

As the first loco was the mid 50's I would guess the LBSCR 4 wheeled coaches were either late 50's or early 60's

[roythebus]

At one time you couldn't GIVE K's kits away! In the late 1960s when I worked at the shop at kings Cross the late AG Thomas who used to run the shop used to announce that you couldn't get K's kits; "they're making plastic bingo cards you know". Now THERE'S a collectable item, K's plastic bingo cards.

 

BTW, K's done the moulds for my plastic VGA wagon kit.

[hayfield]

I have a pair of all cast PO wagons supplied on the shrink wrap card, another packaging variation.

 

I have several K's wagons running, built in my younger years. I still like them, especially the grain wagons.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Several unbuilt on eBay at the moment including Corals and 40t bogie coal. Search under Keyser rather than K's and they should come up.

 

The cast 7 plank wagon on the shrink wrap card I guess was the same as the boxed one, just different packaging.

 

From what I have seen some of the plastic bodied wagons/vans went through a hybrid mode, certainly the 7 plank wagon and the 6 wheel syphon had plastic bodies and cast underframes before going all plastic, not too certain if the Southern utility van was ever a hybrid

 

I have a Mink/Banana van with a differend end casting, but I think the builder used an ABS (?) cast end certainly its not a K's casting on my model

[hayfield]

Now finishing off my coach collection, as I have just got a LNWR Brake 3rd. Had two all 3rds and a full brake for some time but had no luck for some time with this one. As at the club we might be building a small LNWR station I thought I better had get the brake 3rd, as far as I know these never ran on the branch but goes with the Webb coal tank

 

Only missing two LBSCR 4 wheelers now for the full set