Foam suppliers

[Simon Moore]

I keep noticing blue/pink foam mentioned for baseboard building but it seems to be something i cannot find supplier for. When i worked for Travis Perkins i asked them but they seemed to try to palm me off with kingspan. Kingspan is a great product but i would like to get a perfectly flat sheet & kingspan would mean peeling back the topsheet of foil which could distort the foam. Eventually i would like to take the foam route because it is lightweight & can easily be carved to shape & hopefully be a cheaper option than using wood.

Does anyone know of a place where blue/pink foam sheets can be purchased??

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

 

 

[JZ]

I think you will find many are using Kingspan and it's generic equivilant.

[Kris]

Peel both sheets of foil of the Kingspan (or equivalent) and the distortions disappear. The foil on each side fights against the other so if you only remove from one side the other side wins and causes the distortions.

[polybear]

Try here:

 

http://www.trylon.co.uk/products/modelfoam.htm

 

As used by Gordon Gravett (Pempoul layout).

 

No connections etc etc.

 

Brian Tulley

[Re6/6]

Simon

 

Readily available in B&Q at about £20 for a four sheet pack.(Available individually in some of their stores) I built a couple of boards (1200L x 500W x 50D) a year or so ago kept them in a relatively damp garage and they have shown no sign of movement at all.

 

Details of how I built them on my blog .

 

I will now only ever use this method in future for the usual baseboard construction! It's fast, cheap and totally reliable.

 

You can of course, cover the whole top with ply sheet (4mm/6mm) for a conventional track base, as opposed to cutting and gluing on track profiles. The choice is yours.

[JZ]

Simon

 

Readily available in B&Q at about £20 for a four sheet pack.(Available individually in some of their stores) I built a couple of boards (1200L x 500W x 50D) a year or so ago kept them in a relatively damp garage and they have shown no sign of movement at all.

 

 

Seems strange that there is a limit of 167 boards per customer. What if I want 168.

[Ohmisterporter]

I have seen pink sheets recently in both Wickes and Focus DIY. I didn't make a note of the cost or sizes but they seem to be around 500 x 1200 x 50mm. I could be out on this. Sold individually too. HTH.

 

Geoff.

[Kris]

Seems strange that there is a limit of 167 boards per customer. What if I want 168.

 

It's possible that these boards are subsidised on an energy saving scheme. Most of these are limited to a certain square meterage. There might be a second higher price for boards that are over the 167, however if you were buying this many I would suggest that you could be negotiating a good discount.

[bertiedog]

This often comes up as a query, as US references often quote colour or trade names, but the material is generic, it is simply Styrofoam, expanded polystyrene sheet, sometimes supplied with paper surfaces or metal foil, but the key description is the weight per cubic metre, average light at 32kg/m³ with grades up to 200 to 250kg/m^3.

Most UK suppliers should be able to quote the cubic weight as an aid to choosing the right grade of the sheet or block. The colour means nothing except to the particular maker to identify the weight. Some suppliers just call it lightweight or dense grades etc.

 

Ceiling tiles are the lightest grades, and construction ones like surfboards are the densest at 300kg/m³.

There are variants in the plastic used, expanded PVC etc, these are different to the stronger Styrofoam at the same weight.

There is a variant in the form of Depron, which is the same core, but with an extruded surface of plastic added, making a natural sandwich, rather than the paper or foil on sheets and is usually in thin sheet surfaced products. Depron was developed for underfloor insulation and is tough in thin sheets and very popular as a substitute for balsa in aero modelling.and model buildings.

Some thicker boards are sheets glued together, laminated, which is said to make it more stable than a single structured block.

Try Google for local suppliers, or B&Q, Wickes etc.,

hope this helps.

Stephen.

[Re6/6]

Seems strange that there is a limit of 167 boards per customer. What if I want 168.

 

How odd! As has been stated could be something to do some energy saving scheme. It equates to 100 sq mtrs. 167 would give you some layout of around 200 metres long!

[Oldddudders]

This often comes up as a query, as US references often quote colour or trade names, but the material is generic, it is simply Styrofoam, expanded polystyrene sheet

Why did I think that this stuff is extruded, while the cheap and useless-as-a-baseboard white packing material we all know is the expanded variety?

[emac]

I bought Blue Styrofoam Insulation sheets 2400mm x 600mm x 50 mm and 75 mm from malcolm insulation in Dalmuir it may be a bit far for you but I found them on the internet a gooogle search for it may find a local supplier of building insulation

malcolm insulation

TEL: 0141 941 2204

[bertiedog]

Why did I think that this stuff is extruded, while the cheap and useless-as-a-baseboard white packing material we all know is the expanded variety?

 

It's made of separate expanded foam pellets like small peas, compressed, and extruded in to forms or moulds, or rolled into flat sheets shapes, fusing the pellets together with heat, usually super heated steam or air, on the other hand expanded PVC foam etc., is a chemical reaction that expands the stuff by gas generated in the mix.

 

The denser the pellets the denser the final foam block, which at 250grm/m³ plus, is pretty tough expanded foam!! Depron gains it's strength by making normal dense Styrofoam sheets and then further melting the surface to make a dense layer of skin to the sheet, and this is called an extruded foam as well, as it is forced through heated rollers to make the Depron.

 

Depron in thick sheets of 10cm is strong enough to make a layout base without wood edging or bracing, but would need some edge protection, but it is expensive in these thicknesses.

 

Builders foam is not so strong, but will work in a relatively light wood frame, with suitable cross battens in wood to bear across the sheets. It also works in a box structure, with other foam sheets.

 

Stephen

[Ron Ron Ron]

This often comes up as a query, as US references often quote colour or trade names, but the material is generic, it is simply Styrofoam, expanded polystyrene sheet........

Why did I think that this stuff is extruded, while the cheap and useless-as-a-baseboard white packing material we all know is the expanded variety?

Ian is right.

Blue and Pink foam is Extruded Polystyrene and not Expanded foam.

The latter is the crumbly stuff that sheds those annoying beads.

Extruded Blue/Pink foam can be worked with a surform or shaping knives.

 

Depron sounds interesting.

 

Incidentally, I've been advised by a couple of people, that stripping off the foil from Kingspan is a big mistake.

[Kris]

Incidentally, I've been advised by a couple of people, that stripping off the foil from Kingspan is a big mistake.

 

 

Did they say why?

 

 

[Dave at Honley Tank]

Hello Simon,

Have a look at my blog entry "The baseboards progress" dated around April-May this year.

 

The stuff is [/b]extruded polystyrene and B&Q have it available at a subsidised price."Styrofoam" is a trade name but many other companies sell the same type of material but at greater cost than the government supsidised stuff generally available at B&Q et al.

 

Kingspan is extruded polystyrene but the added aluminium skin is a pain.

As to the advice not to remove this skin, my bet is that this is more related to the consequent reduction in its heat insulation properties rather than any reason that would work against its use as a baseboard material.

 

Good luck with your endeavors, and keep us all up-dated.

 

Dave

[Ron Ron Ron]

Incidentally, I've been advised by a couple of people, that stripping off the foil from Kingspan is a big mistake.

Did they say why?

I think it was to do with a marked reduction in the rigidity of the sheets once the foil was peeled off.

 

 

 

[Kris]

I think it was to do with a marked reduction in the rigidity of the sheets once the foil was peeled off.

 

 

 

Thanks for that Ron. For our purposes I don't think that this is a real issue. Having pealed the foil of some myself I did feel that the foil stopped some flex when waving the sheet about.

[Oldddudders]

Mine's actually yellow - should I worry?! I buy mine at Castorama, which I believe is owned by B&Q. I have found the stuff to be very rigid and showing no sign of warping. Mine is double-thickness of 2 x 20mm, braced with 1"x1" in a fairly random way, yet even though the baseboard is effectively 8' x 18" I find it very easy to lift over my head to put back on top of the wardrobe. It won't hold trackpins - far too little grip, but double sided tape is fine for laying track, and no doubt other glues would do as well. I've used the French version of No-nails for making layers of the stuff into cliffsides.

 

Its portability certainly works for me.

[BigAndy]

I'm just in the process of designing an new layout.

 

Or thoughts were to use 2" thick styrene, with each board measuring 5' x 3', but reinforce around all four edges, with 1/8th inch ply. That way, if the foil is removed, the ply will more than make up for any loss, (can't see it though) that the foil provides, in rigidity .

[Ron Ron Ron]

The usual way to protect the foam sheets and provide full rigidity, is to bond thin ply around the 4 edges.

I suspect that once you get into wide sheets, as in the 5' x 3' example, then there may be a case for some intermediate bracing.

 

Just a thought.....

Instead of stripping foil off those products that have it; wouldn't it be better to buy foam sheets without foil?

Apart from being cheaper, it seems to be a waste of time, money and good material, when there is a more suitable alternative available.

[dymstocklr]

I've had 3" think styrofoam baseboards in use for some years now and 2" boards for just over a year. They have 6mm ply stuck around the edges purely to protect the foam - it adds little or nothing to strength. Rigidity, or rather lack of it, certainly isn't a problem in either case! One word of advice - use no nails rather than PVA (which I used initially) and clamp the boards to the foam while it sets. The main reason for not buying foil covered examples would be the additional cost. As others have said you can buy packs of 4 sheets of plain foam 1000 x 500 x 50 for under £20 in B & Q. The main disadvantage of using foam is in fixing point motors because of the thickness of the boards. I've tackled this by attaching the point motors to the plywood at the front of the board and using the wire in tube method (actually brass rod in square plastic tube!)to operate the points. I would never go back to the old traditional ways of constructing baseboards.

Bill

[Re6/6]

Just a thought.....

Instead of stripping foil off those products that have it; wouldn't it be better to buy foam sheets without foil?

Apart from being cheaper, it seems to be a waste of time, money and good material, when there is a more suitable alternative available.

 

You're quite right Ron. I've been saving as much foil covered foam offcuts as I can in all thicknesses by way of 'skip diving' for use on 'Balcombe'. We're going to need an awful lot of it for the scenery! Before storing in bags, I rip off the foil covering from both sides. After doing this, the foam surface tends to become crumbly. This is no problem for scenic use, but I wouldn't want to use it for the main baseboard construction.

 

 

Adding the ply sides and cross braces does give a rigidity to the whole thing. But above all it acts as protection and gives the depth to install 'Tortoise' point motors and the like.

Due to the ideal density of the pink foam the fixing of the ply is made very easy with the use of the long screws shown, which of course are re-usable after removal.

[Pullman65]

Just to say a big thankyou to all posters for this thread on Polyfoam. I had bought same size T&G polystyrene as I didn't like the look of Celotex at Wickes (foil covered and crumbly), but reading this I took it back for a full refund and went to B&Q. Got my Polyfoam and bought a large sheet of 9mm exterior ply which B&Q cut into 100mm wide strips, free of charge. Saved me hours of cutting and easier to transport too. A most satisfying day.

[scanman]

The trouble with BnQueue, Wicks etc is that you get what they want to sell you - flat packed in convenient (for them) sizes. I can appreciate Simon's original post comment about TP - mine didn't know what I was talking about either! Search 'Knauff Floormate' on the web. I got mine from 'Hampshire Insulation' ( www.hampshireinsulations.co.uk) who can supply it in board sizes up to 8' x 2' and thicknesses from 5mm (be prepared to pay for some waste...) up to 75mm. Comes in various colours - I have samples in pink, blue & cream. It is NOT covered with any finish/silver foil etc. This is the dense urethane extruded foam. Cuts with a saw, stanley knife, hot wire cutter with little dust. Can be sanded to contours with a surform (that is messy!) Glues with 'No Nails', is waterproof, stable in normal temperatures (although where it was subject to prolonged sunlight I did notice the exposed surface went 'floury'). If used for boards the only protection needed is to 'face' the edges with ply to protect it from life's little knocks & provide attachment points for baseboard dowels etc. You will also need to provide ply bases for any point motors - it does not like things being screwed into it! Like all plastics it does NOT like direct heat... do any soldering away from the board (i.e use dropper wires on track etc) It does NOT like solvents!

 

It IS different to 'Depron' foam - I know, I use both. Depron is essentially the same material that MacD's & BK use for packaging - see the excellent article in a recent Model Railway Journal.

 

In support of Travis Perkins - they are a trustworthy supplier of normal timber products. I would go nowhere else for my ply

(having suffered severe distortion on 'superstore' ply on a previous layout)

 

Regs

 

Ian