RMweb Gold Savoyard Posted October 10, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2009 I would like to put some sound in my Kestrel and someone said it sounded like a Class 56, is this true? If so it could be a good starting point. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Jones Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I would like to put some sound in my Kestrel and someone said it sounded like a Class 56, is this true? If so it could be a good starting point. Peter Peter I also have one coming, and with all steam and diesel now running with sound I am keen to know what sound file will suit this best. Fingers crossed for an answer soon. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loickebros Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hi peter found this on the web " The hunt is on for some sound recordings of this beast, from which to make an Enginesound. Given there was only one ever built, and it was last heard by british ears in 1971, this is going to be a challenge. I have found a film of it - but the soundtrack is entirely obliterated with incidental music and commentary, and I can't hear the loco at all - it may not even have been recorded at the time the film was shot. If you happen to have recordings of it, or know where there are some, I would be very interested to hear from you. (My email address isn't here for antispam reasons, but you can contact me via the UKTrainz forum or grab my address out of one of my bits of content - it's in every config file.) Well, I hear you say, look for similar locos. Sadly, that's hard too. Sulzer only made one V16 diesel engine for rail traction - and this is it. I haven't found a record of another loco with this engine. After Kestrel, Sulzer built marine engines. The marine engine developed from the 16LVA24 is the 16ASV series. Interestingly, the ASV did come to rail for a few years in the early 80s - some SD45s belonging to American railroads ATSF and UP were re-engined with Sulzer 16ASV25/30s in 1980/1981. They didn't last long in service - apparently there were reliability problems. While these rev slower than the 16LVA24 (900rpm versus 1100rpm), they are going to be the closest match if I can't get real 16LVA24 sounds. If anyone has or knows of a recording of a 16ASV powered vehicle, whether on rails or water, I'd be very interested in that too..." Might be worth investigating further. Regards DAVE I would like to put some sound in my Kestrel and someone said it sounded like a Class 56, is this true? If so it could be a good starting point. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adge-peanuts Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well silly season has begun... Hmmm.... Guess which site i found this pearl of wisdom on?? HS 4000 Kestrel Hard to reproduce but a Class 47 12 Cylinder against the 16 cylinder this Beast had is available Cheers for the Laugh... Like putting a robin reliant sound chip into a rolls royce.... HA HA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted October 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2009 I Might be wrong but i believe the SNCF 67000 series had 12LVA Sulzer V engines in, as i believe when some of the 47s were fitted the engines were sent to france for spares after the trial finished... so that might be a better base....just 4 cylinders short So if you can find a recording of one of those....just ask your local french ned.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Well silly season has begun... Hmmm.... Guess which site i found this pearl of wisdom on?? HS 4000 Kestrel Hard to reproduce but a Class 47 12 Cylinder against the 16 cylinder this Beast had is available Cheers for the Laugh... Like putting a robin reliant sound chip into a rolls royce.... HA HA I agree with the sentiment but in essence, an eight cylinder played at double speed will get close. At the same time any 16cyl turbo overlaid will give a good shot at it. I assume Kestrel was turbo'd? It is periphery sounds that defeat and then ambience because you can bet that the exhaust was a one off!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Weren't there a small handfull of these engines built? I seem to remember reading that they were used as backup generators, what is the likelyhood that one or two still exists in working order? Given that some of the generators in the buildings I frequent (telephone exhcanges) date back to the '60s and older in some cases, there does stand a small chance that something has survived. Long shot I know, unlikely to be turbocharged and the exhausting arrangements would completely change the character as well, but at least it would give an idea of the beat Kestrel would have made both on and off load. And what about the TEP70, which is mechanically speaking a direct decendant of Kestrel? How much was the 4 stroke V16 prime mover in them influenced by the Sulzer unit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Savoyard Posted November 4, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2009 ESU have a SNCF 68000 series sound file which has the same engine as the 67000 series according to this webpage http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1AA1A_68000. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Savoyard Posted November 5, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 5, 2009 I uploaded the ESU SNCF 68000 series on my Kestrel tonight at the club and a couple said it sounded OK, it was a beefier Sulzer, so it will do for the time being. As someone said there are probably not many people who can remember how she sounded. I will hopefully do a YouTube clip tomorrow night. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Savoyard Posted November 7, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2009 I have uploaded a video on YouTube showing my Kestrel loaded with the modified SNCF 68000 class project. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iny5jf3QHk Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adge-peanuts Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Sounds good. Hmm wonder if i have got a spare sound chip to slap in the loco... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodnok Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Hi peter found this on the web " The hunt is on for some sound recordings of this beast, from which to make an Enginesound. Given there was only one ever built, and it was last heard by british ears in 1971, this is going to be a challenge. I have found a film of it - but the soundtrack is entirely obliterated with incidental music and commentary, and I can't hear the loco at all - it may not even have been recorded at the time the film was shot. If you happen to have recordings of it, or know where there are some, I would be very interested to hear from you. (My email address isn't here for antispam reasons, but you can contact me via the UKTrainz forum or grab my address out of one of my bits of content - it's in every config file.) Well, I hear you say, look for similar locos. Sadly, that's hard too. Sulzer only made one V16 diesel engine for rail traction - and this is it. I haven't found a record of another loco with this engine. After Kestrel, Sulzer built marine engines. The marine engine developed from the 16LVA24 is the 16ASV series. Interestingly, the ASV did come to rail for a few years in the early 80s - some SD45s belonging to American railroads ATSF and UP were re-engined with Sulzer 16ASV25/30s in 1980/1981. They didn't last long in service - apparently there were reliability problems. While these rev slower than the 16LVA24 (900rpm versus 1100rpm), they are going to be the closest match if I can't get real 16LVA24 sounds. If anyone has or knows of a recording of a 16ASV powered vehicle, whether on rails or water, I'd be very interested in that too..." Might be worth investigating further. That was me, and I still haven't found one. And yes, I'm still looking. (Why is it that old footage of Kestrel is always dubbed with ridiculous background music? Did they not record sound at all at that date?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Did they not record sound at all at that date? Not very much, no. The reason is that the sound track for such films was recorded on the film stock, down the edge and required special film, special camera and special projector. It was all hugely expensive and, even on cinema films, was frequently added afterwards by 'dubbing'. I don't recall ever seeing any of this kit that an amateur could buy and use and even the professionals needed studio back up to use this equipment successfully. AFAIK, the sound was produced as an optical file and required some sophisticated electronics to put on and interpret off again. Batteries were in their infancy and huge and heavy, electronics were still mainly valves with transistors in their infancy and mains electric power a necessity. A modern TV digital camera that records sound as well is well over ??30K to buy and even then a sound crew would be needed for anything other than someone speaking directly to the camera. BBC and ITV used to run vast sound libraries, all on tape and frequently dubbed on 'better' sounds. Entertainment was/is more important than the actual accuracy of the sound itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodnok Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Not very much, no. The reason is that the sound track for such films was recorded on the film stock, down the edge and required special film, special camera and special projector. It was all hugely expensive and, even on cinema films, was frequently added afterwards by 'dubbing'. I don't recall ever seeing any of this kit that an amateur could buy and use and even the professionals needed studio back up to use this equipment successfully. I guessed that synchronised sound and video would be out of the reach of amateurs circa 1970, but had thought that the professionals would have been able to do it. I guess it wasn't worth it for what was probably a minor news item at the time. (I've found a couple of news clips featuring of Kestrel - but the soundtrack is 60s voiceovers and incidental music. I guess that's also why you don't see the "presenter" in shot at all - because that removes the need to do lip-sync with dubbed audio...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Would this be how she sounded? http://www.filedropper.com/hs4000turbo2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 There is very brief clip of it on a BTF film and before the narrator talks over it you can hear it whistling on idle so that clip sounds pretty accurate. I would assume the horns are the same as a 47 Engine sounds fantastic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Many thanks, been working on it for a few days now, trying to get it right based on best guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 Many thanks, been working on it for a few days now, trying to get it right based on best guess. Where is actually from? Shame it doesn't seem to get flat out under heavy load Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 A bit more like this then? http://www.filedropper.com/hs4000turbo3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 It's one and a fraction class 47s + a class 40 and a speed change for the 1100 rpm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 That sounds great, the only thing is the LVA engine didn't sound like an LDA but I reckon you are in the right area Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That sounds great, the only thing is the LVA engine didn't sound like an LDA but I reckon you are in the right area Hmm, can you give me an example of a LDA engine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 The LDA is in the 47 and all other sulzers in the UK except the 48s and kestrel which were LVA SNCF have some diesels with 12 LVA engines Two actually came through the tunnel before it opened properly I'm not sure of their class Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 ah ok back to the drawing board then lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 No no, you may have actually go the sound pretty close From what I've been told LVAs were deeper sounding than the LDA and you have certainly done that and you have the idle whistle which is more subdued than the 40 which you also so have done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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