Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts

[Ron Heggs]

Oh dear - The 1000+ chairs turned up in Friday's post - but they are the wrong ones

 

Ordered 1000 3 bolt/hole LMS/BR BH chairs - received 2 bolt/hole GWR chairs. Pack had the wrong item/order code marked on it

 

Cost more to send them back, so may use them in the carriage sidings where they are unlikely to be noticed. Have to re-order now with note/comment

 

Getting nowhere fast - sleepers and timber all laid for the approach trackwork to Platfoms 2, 3, 3/4 service road, 4, 5, 5/6 service road, 6 and 7. Cut, filed and soldered the common crossings for 16 turnouts, 2 diamonds and 2 slips - just need the chairs to lay everything

 

Looks like it is going to be back on Sri Lanka for a few more days

 

Ron 

[Simond]

Ron

 

If the supplier makes a mistake, surely the supplier must put it right, at their cost. It shouldn’t cost you anything, apart from the lost time.

 

If they want them back, they should certainly cover the return shipment cost.

 

Best

Simon

[Ron Heggs]

Ron

 

If the supplier makes a mistake, surely the supplier must put it right, at their cost. It shouldn’t cost you anything, apart from the lost time.

 

If they want them back, they should certainly cover the return shipment cost.

 

Best

Simon

 

I have contacted the retailer via there website, and await their reply

 

Ron

[Simond]

Fingers crossed!

 

Best

Sim9n

[HAB]

Cost more to send them back, so may use them in the carriage sidings where they are unlikely to be noticed. Have to re-order now with note/comment

 

 

I am sure you would get away with it - here is a pic of my carriage sidings - can anyone spot where the LSWR 4-bolt chairs (kindly donated by a friend) give way to 3-bolt S1s?   And my layout is about 0.001% of the size of yours Ron!

 

 

Even better, the "outsides" of both  the 2-bolt GW and 3-bolt S1 chairs are pretty much the same!

 

Good luck, and sorry that you have had such a setback,

[TerrySVR]

Any chance of more pictures Ron this is a fascinating thread

[Ron Heggs]

Any chance of more pictures Ron this is a fascinating thread

 

Hopefully soon. Just doing the final commissioning checks on the crossing barriers and flashing warning signs on the Sri Lanka project, before they fly off to Sri Lanka

 

Ron

Edited October 27, 2017 by Ron Heggs

[Ron Heggs]

I am sure you would get away with it - here is a pic of my carriage sidings - can anyone spot where the LSWR 4-bolt chairs (kindly donated by a friend) give way to 3-bolt S1s?   And my layout is about 0.001% of the size of yours Ron!

 

Chairs-1.jpg

 

Even better, the "outsides" of both  the 2-bolt GW and 3-bolt S1 chairs are pretty much the same!

 

Good luck, and sorry that you have had such a setback,

 

They look convincing enough. Just have to wait for the correct items to turn up for the present track sections

 

Ron

[darren01]

At a nominal £27.50 per 500 C+L chairs, my gads they have shot up in price!, how can they justify this cost.

How can such small bit of plastic cost this much, problem is no one else seem to make them, so he has the market cornered. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by darren01

[Simond]

I doubt there is any reason why someone else could not tool up and make them, apart from the cost of the tooling, and the hassle factor.

 

Then again, if someone did, it would result in some competition, probably reduced prices, thus reduced profits, thus less incentive to invest significant sums. Indeed, worst case, both businesses could go down the pan.

 

It’s probably why Peco have very little competition in trackwork.

 

Be careful what you wish for!

 

Best

Simon

[jonhall]

At a nominal £27.50 per 500 C+L chairs, my gads they have shot up in price!, how can they justify this cost.

How can such small bit of plastic cost this much, problem is no one else seem to make them, so he has the market cornered. 

 

You are paying for the plastic

You are paying for someone to mould them for Phil (and all their costs and a profit)

You are paying for an immense amount of stock, because you can bet even the largest order for Phil is a tiny order as a plastics moulding company see it.

You are paying for Phil's time to take them out of the box they come in and package them.

You are paying for the packaging

You are paying for somewhere to store them until you are ready to buy them (Rent/Rates/Utilities) 

You are paying for some of them to be carted round the country to exhibitions 

You are paying for them to be advertised

You are paying for Phil's wages

You are paying for the tax mans cut

You are paying for insurance

You are paying for Phil's Accountant

You are paying for a return on Phils investment - he could have left his money safely in the bank

You are paying for the original mould

You are (probably) paying for a proportion of the costs of some other items in the range that don't themselves make any money at all, but without which the range wouldn't be viable.

and hopefully

You are paying for the CAD designer to design the replacement mould

You are paying for the mould making company to produce a replacement mould

You are paying for any development/tweeks of that mould to make it work

 

And I'm sure I've forgotten a whole mountain of other stuff.

 

Now the actual cost of some of these is relatively small, but they are divided by a relatively small market maybe a few hundred (under a thousand? ) modellers who make their own track, and who probably only do so once a decade for a new layout?

 

I'm pretty sure Phil isn't going to get rich on C&L, and if you want him to invest in maintaining the range, and increasing it, rather than simply flogging the moulds to death until they can't produce a decent chair, then I'm sure it could be a little bit cheaper, but if there was that much profit then you would have seen others entering it. Would you prefer it all disappears?

 

My understanding is much of the Exactoscale stuff exists only because a backer was prepared to underwrite the costs to get what they wanted, and the subsequent availability on the open market is just a happy by product of that.

 

Jon

[SHMD]

...but in the mind set of the modeller, most of that is free as part of the enjoyment of the hobby!

 

 

Kev.

[hayfield]

At a nominal £27.50 per 500 C+L chairs, my gads they have shot up in price!, how can they justify this cost.

How can such small bit of plastic cost this much, problem is no one else seem to make them, so he has the market cornered. 

 

The prices actually went up whilst Peter owned the business, there have been discussions before and the main reasons are the cost of running a small business, minimum wages , rent, business rates etc. C&L was sold as in its previous state it was not profitable for the owner. To a certain extent Phil's overheads will be smaller which hopefully will make the business profitable again. I am of the opinion most of these businesses are only profitable when run as a cottage industry, or when grown to a similar size as Peco, where economies of scale kick in, but this is my own opinion which could be wrong

 

Anyway these 500 chairs will make about 4-5 turnouts, that's £7 per turnout, add a bit of rail and a few timbers and the component cost will vary between £12 and £15, which in turn will give you a bespoke turnout or crossing completely different to what's available off the shelf and half the price of Peco's latest offering

Edited November 5, 2017 by hayfield

[Tim Dubya]

Anyway these 500 chairs will make about 4-5 turnouts, that's £7 per turnout, add a bit of rail and a few timbers and the component cost will vary between £12 and £15, which in turn will give you a bespoke turnout or crossing completely different to what's available off the shelf and half the price of Peco's latest offering

Not forgetting the 'fun factor' which is priceless.

It's frustrating at times but rolling yer own track is the best!

.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[Ron Heggs]

Have been a little busy with some tedious assembly work on the Sri Lanka project, whilst continuing the trackwork build on the Manchester Central layout 

 

The approach trackwork into Platforms 8 & 9 and the centre service road has been completed and placed on the layout in its approximate position, and awaits the marking out of turnout motor and tie bar actuation positions. Hope that these positions are clear of the cross-bracing supports, otherwise a little bit of engineered carpentry will be required

 

Following receipt of 2000+ Exactoscale chairs, the adjacent trackwork into Platforms 7, 6, 5, 4 & 3, the two centre service roads, and parts of the trackwork into Platforms 2 and centre service road is almost complete, and awaits a shipment of copperclad strip for the completion of the final turnout on this portion of trackwork

 

This trackwork assembly comprises ten single turnouts, a threeway turnout, two diamond crossings, and a portion of a further threeway turnout which is part of the next adjacent section, all built in a curved close formation 

 

This assembly will then be moved to the layout and placed adjacent to the previous trackwork section

 

Will post pictures tomorrow when the lighting will be more favourable for photography, and the work area has been cleared of tools and scrap materials

[Alan Kettlewell]

Just joined this thread and am In awe of the scope of the layout and top class modelling skills. Brilliant craftsmanship.

 

Trouble is there's nearly 130 pages to catch up on now!

 

Cheers ... Alan

[Ron Heggs]

More problems - My Minolta Dimage 7i has just packed up after 15 years. Thought it may require a new set of batteries, but no. It is totally dead

 

It looks like one of my Xmas presents is going to be a camera

 

The pictures have had to be taken with my non-smart phone, so the resolution is a little poor

 

The turnouts on the extreme left await the copperclad strips. From bottom left to right - the tracks pass into Platforms 7, 6, service road, 5, 4, service road, 3, 2 and service road. With track into Platform 1 just off plan to the right 

 

View from opposite end

 

Overhead view

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Ron

 

That's some excellent S&C, flows beautifully.

 

SS.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Ron

 

That's some excellent S&C, flows beautifully.

 

SS.

 

Agreed, the advantage of doing it in one big chunk.

 

Mike.

[ColinW]

Hi Ron,

 

That is some very impressive trackwork you have built, but not surprising considering the buildings that you built earlier.  I shall look forward to seeing more of it

 

Colin

[Ron Heggs]

Hi Ron,

 

That is some very impressive trackwork you have built, but not surprising considering the buildings that you built earlier.  I shall look forward to seeing more of it

 

Colin

 

Thanks Colin

 

My one worry with the trackwork builds has been that trying to match the original complex track layout in OO gauge and 4mm scale would ultimately fail. So far it is working out quite well, with just a couple adjustments with the check rails to overcome slight lack of smoothness through the crossings 

 

Employing 00-SF has certainly eased the build and running qualities

 

There is the electrical switching problems ahead due to one or two switch rails closing over the common crossing on an adjacent turnout. In the prototype that was not a real problem, however with electrical feeds through the rails on the model, it can cause unwanted short circuits. These may require additional selective switching

[Steve K]

It's not too late to change to OO, you know!

[Siberian Snooper]

Thanks Colin

 

My one worry with the trackwork builds has been that trying to match the original complex track layout in OO gauge and 4mm scale would ultimately fail. So far it is working out quite well, with just a couple adjustments with the check rails to overcome slight lack of smoothness through the crossings 

 

Employing 00-SF has certainly eased the build and running qualities

 

There is the electrical switching problems ahead due to one or two switch rails closing over the common crossing on an adjacent turnout. In the prototype that was not a real problem, however with electrical feeds through the rails on the model, it can cause unwanted short circuits. These may require additional selective switching

 

Ron

 

If you cut the "V" rail beyond the associated switch rail, it will be the same polarity. When switched for the opposite leg of the "v" you won't have a loco using the side with the switch. I will try and do a sketch latter of what I mean.

 

SS

[Siberian Snooper]

Ron

 

Sorry for the delay in posting this, but I got side tracked. Sorry it's a bit rough  and ready, but I hope that using the different colours for the polarity of the rails it's self explanatory.

 

 

SS

Edited November 29, 2017 by Siberian Snooper

[Enterprisingwestern]

So basically, build it as a 3 way?

 

Mike.