Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts

[Ron Heggs]

And here's me thinking you were having a bit of a siesta this last couple of weeks!

 

Must be nearly ready for the first bits of track?

Hi, Ian

 

Gardening and Walking Group reccies have interrupted the flow slightly, but back on course now

 

Have to order the track bits and pieces from C+L / Exactoscale for the GN Goods Yard

 

In the meantime the GN & CLC Warehouses will be finished off

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[Ron Heggs]

Hello Ron,

 

sorry it may just be me but I would have though that the supports for the first floor of the warehouse would have been underneath the supports for the second floor. It's just that they look wrong off set to the side ( I'm talking about from the left 2, 3 & 4 ) it may be right but it just looks wrong.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. nice to see you back.   

Hi,

 

The openings at First & Second levels really are offset

 

At First Level/Ground - the 1st opening has 2 wagon tracks, 2nd opening has a wider vehicle access, 3rd opening has 2 wagon tracks, 4th opening has a narrow vehicle access, and the 5th opening (fireproof tunnel) is a loco & wagon access to the rear of the warehouse

 

At Second Level - the 1st and 3rd openings are all the same width, and the 2nd is wider, each with 2 wagon tracks

 

Will scan and post copies of the relevant sections of the original GN plans. Historic pictures don't show the first level openings as the goods yard structure obstructed the view. Present day pictures are also obstructed by the new 'Great Northern' Car Park

 

Cheers

 

Ron

Edited April 11, 2013 by Ron Heggs

[Ron Heggs]

Oh, this just got exciting again!

 

It's great to see things starting to come together in one place Ron.

 

Phil

Thanks Phil

 

It's good to see some of the model structures temporarily in their intended positions, if only to check everything is as it should be

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[ozzyo]

Hello Ron,

Hi,

 

The openings at First & Second levels really are offset

 

At First Level/Ground - the 1st opening has 2 wagon tracks, 2nd opening has a wider vehicle access, 3rd opening has 2 wagon tracks, 4th opening has a narrow vehicle access, and the 5th opening (fireproof tunnel) is a loco & wagon access to the rear of the warehouse

 

At Second Level - the 1st and 3rd openings are all the same width, and the 2nd is wider, each with 2 wagon tracks

 

Will scan and post copies of the relevant sections of the original GN plans. Historic pictures don't show the first level openings as the goods yard structure obstructed the view. Present day pictures are also obstructed by the new 'Great Northern' Car Park

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

it still just sounds wrong, in that the supporting brick work would be off set by about over half the column width by the fourth column. That would mean that the girder would have to carry all of the offset weight of the wall above it and then offset it. 

I would have expected something more like this.

 

Sorry about the drawing quality, but I hope that it explains what I'm trying to say better.

 

Having the wall column's off set would also mean that any supporting columns would also have to be offset and that does not seem right. As these supports would now be in the "working areas", not in the middle of any platforms.

As the ground floor ones have to carry the weight of all the building floors above them. I would not expect any of them to be offset.

If you were building a large structure you would not normal place a large opening (say a window) at the bottom and then build a large wall above it. I know it does happen. But the outward forces are a lot more, one of the reasons for buttress walls etc. to add support.

 

Seeing the drawings of the building should help a lot more

 

OzzyO.

[woodenhead]

I've been looking at 'scenes from the past 48' this evening and I have to agree with OzzyO, the plans show the entrances on both levels are aligned. Whilst my eyesight isn't letting me confirm the drawings for the upper and lower levels are exactly the same scale I can see that the wagon turntables at the other end of the warehouse which are on the lower level do line with the tracks on the upper level meaning the entrances had to also be aligned. The drawings are on pages 55 and 59.

[Adrian]

Hi,

 

The openings at First & Second levels really are offset

 

At First Level/Ground - the 1st opening has 2 wagon tracks, 2nd opening has a wider vehicle access, 3rd opening has 2 wagon tracks, 4th opening has a narrow vehicle access, and the 5th opening (fireproof tunnel) is a loco & wagon access to the rear of the warehouse

 

At Second Level - the 1st and 3rd openings are all the same width, and the 2nd is wider, each with 2 wagon tracks

 

Will scan and post copies of the relevant sections of the original GN plans. Historic pictures don't show the first level openings as the goods yard structure obstructed the view. Present day pictures are also obstructed by the new 'Great Northern' Car Park

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

Hi,

 

impressive stuff as usual however like Ozzy has mentioned the positioning of the pillars do look a little odd.

 

This was the best square on photo I could find of the right hand side. Although you can't see the track openings the support pillar here does appear to be directly under the windows. Which appears to be different to your version, if the pillar on the model was moved to under the windows then the remaining ones would fit in what I see as their more natural position.

 

[R A Watson]

Looking at the size of that carrying girder above the lower doors there should be no problem with offset openings on the first floor.

 

Wally

[Ron Heggs]

Have scanned the drawings, and show the alignments below -

 

 

Comparing the Second Level drawing with actual pictures of this face, the second/centre opening was built wider than shown on the drawing. That means the Second Level openings are correct as modelled and based on photographs

 

Comparing the First Level drawing with actual pictures of the 4th & 5th openings, these openings weren't built as shown on the drawing. The other openings must not have been built as per the drawings, as their width and alignment appears incorrect. That means the First Level openings will need to be re-modelled

 

OzzyO, Woodenhead, Adrian and RA Watson - Thanks for all your help in identifying this error before the model was completed

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

Well it's given me an excuse to re-aquaint myself with 'scenes from the past 48'

[Ron Heggs]

Pictures of progress on baseboards -

 

Watson St looking South from Windmill St corner towards Great Bridgewater St

 

Windmill St looking East towards Lower Moseley St

 

Windmill St looking West towards Watson St corner

 

CLC Goods Yard

 

CLC Goods Warehouse along Windmill St

 

CLC Goods Warehouse and GN Goods Warehouse from across the CLC Goods Yard

 

View from the bottom of Watson St, with bridge over Great Bridgewater St on the left

 

Close-up view of above pic

 

Close-up view of CLC Warehouse across Goods Yard

 

Another close-up view

 

Close-up view of GN Warehouse

 

The access bridge to the GN Warehouse and Goods Yard over great Bridgwater St looking West

 

Close-up of the bridge showing the three separate spans - two outer spans are for the tracks which access the lower level of the goods yard - max gradient 1:28

 

Another view from over Deansgate

[d winpenny]

Looking good keep it up, david

[Siberian Snooper]

One starts to realize the enormity of the project now. Good stuff Ron.

 

Cheers SS

[ColinW]

Hi Ron,

 

Its good to see the various pieces being put in place, it gives us not only a chance to see all the work that you have carried out, but also the staggering amount of work originally wanted, and how much work you have left to do.  Looking forward to more of it.

 

Colin

[Ron Heggs]

Looking good keep it up, david

Thanks David

 

One starts to realize the enormity of the project now. Good stuff Ron.

 

Cheers SS

Thanks SS - It is looking bigger everytime a model is placed on the baseboard - they seem to vanish into the void

 

Hi Ron,

 

Its good to see the various pieces being put in place, it gives us not only a chance to see all the work that you have carried out, but also the staggering amount of work originally wanted, and how much work you have left to do.  Looking forward to more of it.

 

Colin

Thanks Colin - the amount of work still outstanding is enormous, but we shall prevail and it is exciting seeing it all come together all be it slowly

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

PS. Thanks to all those viewing and liking the show - Cheers

[artizen]

Viewing ...          

 

Liking ...             

[rannorgana]

If it hasn't been mentioned before(only just seen this thread) Scenes from the past 16 (part 1) Manchester Central to New Mills by E.M. Johnson has a large section devoted to Manchester Central.

 

 

[Ron Heggs]

If it hasn't been mentioned before(only just seen this thread) Scenes from the past 16 (part 1) Manchester Central to New Mills by E.M. Johnson has a large section devoted to Manchester Central.

A number of the Foxline Scenes from the Past series were been obtained a few years back, and have been extremely useful in providing much needed photographic evidence of the buildings and track formations in years gone by

 

  #3  - Manchester Railway Termini

  #8  - Railways in and around the Manchester Suburbs

  #16 - The Midland Route from Manchester - Part One Central to New Mills

  #48 - Manchester's Central Station and the Great Northern Railway Goods Warehouse

 

  All authored by E M Johnson

 

also

 

Kestrel Railway Books

 

    Liverpool & Manchester  2: Cheshire Lines

 

Author Bob Pixton

 

Ron

[phixer64]

Hi Ron, been following this from the start, and maybe like the rest on here, wow comes to mind, superb modelling, if only we all had the space like yourself!!

Keep up the fantastic work.

 

phixer (pronounced as fixer) aka Jeff.

[Ron Heggs]

Hi Ron, been following this from the start, and maybe like the rest on here, wow comes to mind, superb modelling, if only we all had the space like yourself!!

Keep up the fantastic work.

 

phixer (pronounced as fixer) aka Jeff.

Hi, Jeff

 

Thanks

 

Space can be a two edged sword, when you haven't got enough it limits your project, on the other hand when you have a lot it can be quite daunting to fill. That is until you find you could still do with a bit more

 

At present I am the stage where I know I can achieve my initial project goals, but I have that nagging feeling that I will need just a little more space for future project extensions

 

Anyway I am here for the modelling - The future is another game

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[rannorgana]

A number of the Foxline Scenes from the Past series were been obtained a few years back, and have been extremely useful in providing much needed photographic evidence of the buildings and track formations in years gone by

 

  #3  - Manchester Railway Termini

  #8  - Railways in and around the Manchester Suburbs

  #16 - The Midland Route from Manchester - Part One Central to New Mills

  #48 - Manchester's Central Station and the Great Northern Railway Goods Warehouse

 

  All authored by E M Johnson

 

also

 

Kestrel Railway Books

 

    Liverpool & Manchester  2: Cheshire Lines

 

Author Bob Pixton

 

Ron

 

 

If you go back I did say that I did not have the time to read the whole thread and that If it hasn't been mentioned before could also be read as have you already got?

 

I have #16 to hand and #3 on the way.

 

Also good reading are

 

The LMS & LNER in Manchester by R.E Rose

Great Northern Railway Engine sheds Volume 3. Yorkshire and Lancashire

 

I don't know if you've got these books or not, I'm just letting you know that there is information in them.

 

no need to bite my head off for not spending the time to read all 50+ pages of this thread.

[uax6]

I don't know if you've got these books or not, I'm just letting you know that there is information in them.

no need to bite my head off for not spending the time to read all 50+ pages of this thread.

 

I think you are mistaken, I can't see where Ron is supposed to have bitten you?

 

Mind you, if you haven't read all the pages, you have missed out on some epic modelling.

 

Andy G

[Ron Heggs]

If you go back I did say that I did not have the time to read the whole thread and that If it hasn't been mentioned before could also be read as have you already got?

 

I have #16 to hand and #3 on the way.

 

Also good reading are

 

The LMS & LNER in Manchester by R.E Rose

Great Northern Railway Engine sheds Volume 3. Yorkshire and Lancashire

 

I don't know if you've got these books or not, I'm just letting you know that there is information in them.

 

no need to bite my head off for not spending the time to read all 50+ pages of this thread.

Hi,

 

Sorry if my reply was taken in the wrong way, there was no intention for it to do so

 

Thanks for the additional book information

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[PaternosterRow]

Gosh Ron, you've done an amazing amount since my last visit to your blog.  The station roof is absolutely brilliant and the Goods warehouse.  Most of all, I think the use of drainage pipes for the baseboard is a dead clever idea - never occurred to me to use them like that.  Superb and igneous as usual. 

 

Mike.

[Ron Heggs]

Gosh Ron, you've done an amazing amount since my last visit to your blog.  The station roof is absolutely brilliant and the Goods warehouse.  Most of all, I think the use of drainage pipes for the baseboard is a dead clever idea - never occurred to me to use them like that.  Superb and igneous as usual. 

 

Mike.

Hi, Mike

 

Thanks for your much appreciated comments - always looking for more efficient and cost-effective ways of construction, whatever scale 1:76 or 1:1

 

A great deal of the drainage pipe was recycled from the underbuild reform project (thoroughly cleaned first of course), and the baseboard boxwork/eggcrate which was a throw back to the old ornament wall racks of the 1960's, using T&G MDF wallboarding which I had used for the suspended ceiling in our kitchen reform

 

.... and of course the patchwork quilt of plywood for the actual baseboard surfaces, recycled from all the packing cases which were purpose built to transport the models, etc. from the UK to Spain 3 years ago

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[Grafarman]

.... and of course the patchwork quilt of plywood for the actual baseboard surfaces, recycled from all the packing cases which were purpose built to transport the models, etc. from the UK to Spain 3 years ago

 

Now that's what I call forward-planning...!!  

 

Looking good; I'm sure the team from Grand Designs could make a whole episode out of this build...

 

David