the penguin of doom Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Looking good... bah, but very nice indeed to see the steam boiler outlet in the wrong place (OK mine is wrong too at the moment, but in the right place at least... I need something to stop me being depressed about them blowing my model out of the water!) Ade Yeah. It should be nearer the centre I think eh DMH? Hope they sort that before the production batch is released. Otherwise its a nice looking model. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 ...The bogie / bodyside relationship looks better than Bachmann's attempt... Just glad to see it's not doing a Harrier impression, hovering over it's bogies!. Does look good in that respect. I have lowered my Bachmann class 55 body relative to the bogies for the same appearance - it is easy enough to do - at which point it becomes clear why Bachmann did it. If the wheels are scale diameter, with the body at correct height the wheel tops are inside the bodywork, that's an unavoidable aspect of the prototype design. Attempts to run the loco in this condition on set track curves will result in the wheel tops on the bogies ends chewing themselves clearance in the lower bodysides. Possible options to deal with this undesireable outcome. Model specified for a minimum curve radius 'X' ( will be greater than any UK set track radius, about 30") Undersize wheels (Hornby's solution on the class 50 model) Distort the bodywork so (as an example) it is wider in the lower body side area to provide clearance Use narrower tread wheelsets and hope that purchasers mostly won't use set track... (Bachmann fit a slim tyred end wheelset on their model in addition to raising the ride height) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mirreles31 Posted August 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi 34...B&D, quote "I have lowered my Bachmann class 55 body relative to the bogies for the same appearance - it is easy enough to do" how did you achieve this? as it's something I'd like do with a Baccy 37 and I believe they have similar bogie mounts. Cheers Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 The first images of tooling is now on the Heljan website. First images of DP2 tooling Luke I've had a chance to look at a side on picture of DP2 at Kings Cross. Everything else looks ok on the model to my eye. It's just that boiler port that needs to be moved closer to the roof ribbing strap to its right..... It's a shame because on the CAD drawing, the port looks to be in the right place. Anyone from Heljan looking in able to rectify that and I might be tempted to get one????? Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi 34...B&D, quote "I have lowered my Bachmann class 55 body relative to the bogies for the same appearance - it is easy enough to do" how did you achieve this? as it's something I'd like do with a Baccy 37 and I believe they have similar bogie mounts. Cheers Phil. Yes 34....B&D. Show us how it's done. I've got a couple waiting in the wings. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Cannot show (no digi camera) only tell. This operation equally applicable to all Bachmann bogie diesel locos except the Warship which has a different chassis construction. Take body off to reveal chassis block, disconnect wires to bogies from the pcb, and to release bogies undo bogie pivot screws, - catch a falling drive shaft - look inside the chassis cavities and you will see a cast on rib, running from side to side centred on the bogie pivot hole. Near the top of the bogie tower is what I think off as a 'table', that's what the rib rests on when the bogie is installed. Cut down the sides of the table and the body height above the bogie is reduced by the same amount. It is that easy. Sometimes a raised land at the bottom of the pivot also needs to be reduced in diameter so that it passes freely through the pivot hole. (If you happen to cut down the table too far, add a thin washer.) Reassemble... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mirreles31 Posted August 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks for the info, much obliged, now it's time to assault my new 37 can't wait to see it lookin as tho' it belongs on its bogies! Thanks again Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yes, Thanks for the info. I may be having a go at that..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I've had a chance to look at a side on picture of DP2 at Kings Cross. Everything else looks ok on the model to my eye. It's just that boiler port that needs to be moved closer to the roof ribbing strap to its right..... It's a shame because on the CAD drawing, the port looks to be in the right place. Anyone from Heljan looking in able to rectify that and I might be tempted to get one????? Cheers. Sean. Rather than leave it to chance, I suggest Heljan are informed of this detail error and shown exactly where it should be located on the roof before it’s too late. Has anyone got a decent enough photo to prove the point – perhaps it, or a link, could be posted on this thread? I’ll gladly forward it………….. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Rather than leave it to chance, I suggest Heljan are informed of this detail error and shown exactly where it should be located on the roof before it’s too late. Has anyone got a decent enough photo to prove the point – perhaps it, or a link, could be posted on this thread? I’ll gladly forward it………….. Thanks 00ERmissus. This is the link I used..... http://en.wikipedia....ross_-_1963.jpg If you Google english electric dp2, the wikipedia site has this photo. I think there may be other pictures and I have a good photo myself which is subject of copyright. I am happy to let anyone have a loan of this picture, as I don't think that would breach the copyright? I'm not sure how to contact Heljan re this, but it sounds like you're offering to help 00ERmissus? Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 There's also some good pictures in recent publications, "looking back at English Electric locomotives" springs to mind as well as page 53/54/55 of the magazine "Modern Locomotives Illustrated" No. 174 December 2008 - January 2009. Guess who's been doing his research?..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Rather than leave it to chance, I suggest Heljan are informed of this detail error and shown exactly where it should be located on the roof before it’s too late. Has anyone got a decent enough photo to prove the point – perhaps it, or a link, could be posted on this thread? I’ll gladly forward it………….. Speaking from personal experience, Heljan isn't going to go back and make changes at this point. If the exhaust port turns out in the wrong spot, it will have to be moved after the fact. Keep your fingers crossed that this will be the most objectionable fault that you find. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Cannot show (no digi camera) only tell. This operation equally applicable to all Bachmann bogie diesel locos except the Warship which has a different chassis construction. Take body off to reveal chassis block, disconnect wires to bogies from the pcb, and to release bogies undo bogie pivot screws, - catch a falling drive shaft - look inside the chassis cavities and you will see a cast on rib, running from side to side centred on the bogie pivot hole. Near the top of the bogie tower is what I think off as a 'table', that's what the rib rests on when the bogie is installed. Cut down the sides of the table and the body height above the bogie is reduced by the same amount. It is that easy. Sometimes a raised land at the bottom of the pivot also needs to be reduced in diameter so that it passes freely through the pivot hole. (If you happen to cut down the table too far, add a thin washer.) Reassemble... I believe this is called "slamming" in the chavved car world. So shall we call this "chavving" a model? :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Cannot show (no digi camera) only tell. This operation equally applicable to all Bachmann bogie diesel locos except the Warship which has a different chassis construction. Take body off to reveal chassis block, disconnect wires to bogies from the pcb, and to release bogies undo bogie pivot screws, - catch a falling drive shaft - look inside the chassis cavities and you will see a cast on rib, running from side to side centred on the bogie pivot hole. Near the top of the bogie tower is what I think off as a 'table', that's what the rib rests on when the bogie is installed. Cut down the sides of the table and the body height above the bogie is reduced by the same amount. It is that easy. Sometimes a raised land at the bottom of the pivot also needs to be reduced in diameter so that it passes freely through the pivot hole. (If you happen to cut down the table too far, add a thin washer.) Reassemble... That raises the bogie but that's not actual the problem. The ride height is fine as is but the side frames sit too low relative to the wheels. The bogies are also too wide. The solution is to cut the side frames off and re-mount them in line with the axles. If you use a hack saw it also narrows the width. Simples Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Speaking from personal experience, Heljan isn't going to go back and make changes at this point. If the exhaust port turns out in the wrong spot, it will have to be moved after the fact. Keep your fingers crossed that this will be the most objectionable fault that you find. Hi Pete. Without wanting to open a debate, and just "throwing this into the mix" so to speak, surely with todays improved model standards, Heljan should be considering sorting such a major fault before the production run? Us modellers would accept this a few years ago with things such as the old Lima models, but nowadays we expect more. I recall all the faults on the first Bachmann 37's as an example, but I suspect the experience you mention means this mistake is likely to get ignored by Heljan? Given that Dapol are waiting in the wings to assess Heljans effort, I would hope our comments are looked at seriously, (said in a menacing Bloefeldesque style)..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks 00ERmissus. This is the link I used..... http://en.wikipedia....ross_-_1963.jpg If you Google english electric dp2, the wikipedia site has this photo. I think there may be other pictures and I have a good photo myself which is subject of copyright. I am happy to let anyone have a loan of this picture, as I don't think that would breach the copyright? I'm not sure how to contact Heljan re this, but it sounds like you're offering to help 00ERmissus? Thanks for the link and comments from others, certainly a good enough photo for comparison purposes. There are some very eagle-eyed critics amongst us, to be honest I doubt I would have noticed it myself! As Pete says, it may well be too late for Heljan to do anything about it but as the saying goes ‘nothing ventured……..’ I’ll email them this morning and report back on any response I receive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks for the link and comments from others, certainly a good enough photo for comparison purposes. There are some very eagle-eyed critics amongst us, to be honest I doubt I would have noticed it myself! As Pete says, it may well be too late for Heljan to do anything about it but as the saying goes ‘nothing ventured……..’ I’ll email them this morning and report back on any response I receive. Excellent. Yes, keep us posted. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Even though its way before my time, that pre-production model is looking good ... resisting to buy is going to be hard NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Us modellers would accept this a few years ago with things such as the old Lima models, but nowadays we expect more. I recall all the faults on the first Bachmann 37's as an example, but I suspect the experience you mention means this mistake is likely to get ignored by Heljan? I agree with you 100%- we should expect more. From my experience, by the time you see a shell from Heljan, it is not going to change. Hopefully they are letting the "experts" see the CAD early enough to make a difference, so there is time to make changes from feedback. The single CAD image on the Howes website was more of a "look where we are", not a "do we have it right?". You may get a polite response to your message saying "what you have seen is a FPS (First Piece Sample) and there are still corrections that has to be made before we start up production." In Heljan speak though, corrections don't typically include changes to new tooling. I like Heljan locomotives. They have their faults, but they are mostly predictable, and Heljan seem to regularly flush out some nice items. I was sincere when I mentioned relocating an exhaust port- an easy fix. I'll be tickled pink if that is the best we can do in terms of finding faults with DP2. And if DP2 is to the same standard as Falcon, Kestrel, and Lion, Dapol would be nuts to repeat the effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It may be the quality of the Heljan image but to my eyes the radiator louvers look to shallow and too squared off at the corners? The gap between the air intakes and the top of the engine room windows appears a little wide. I guess I should wait till I see one in the flesh before passing comment. Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 That raises the bogie but that's not actual the problem. The ride height is fine as is but the side frames sit too low relative to the wheels. The bogies are also too wide. The solution is to cut the side frames off and re-mount them in line with the axles. If you use a hack saw it also narrows the width. Are we writing about the same models, Bachmann 55? I only have one example and the bogie frame to wheels relationship appears fine. Moving the bogie frames around does nothing to bring down the oveheight buffers, or the out of gauge height of the vehicle overall. To avoid cluttering up a Heljan thread, we should do this separately in Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I agree with you 100%- we should expect more. I like Heljan locomotives. They have their faults, but they are mostly predictable, and Heljan seem to regularly flush out some nice items. I was sincere when I mentioned relocating an exhaust port- an easy fix. I'll be tickled pink if that is the best we can do in terms of finding faults with DP2. And if DP2 is to the same standard as Falcon, Kestrel, and Lion, Dapol would be nuts to repeat the effort. It may be the quality of the Heljan image but to my eyes the radiator louvers look to shallow and too squared off at the corners? The gap between the air intake and the top of the engine room window appears a little wide. I guess I should wait till I see one in the flesh before passing comment. Porcy I agree with you there Pete and as per my PM, I'm probably a little pedantic with this. The modification to put this right would be relatively simple but there are those out there without the necessary skill who will have to make do and that's unfortunate...... Hi Porcy. Do you mean the vents should sit deeper within the body or should extend further down the bodyside? I THINK they're the right dimensions in that, the lower edge should extend to about half way up the upper kick plate of the drivers step if that makes sense? They're actually a lot smaller than those on the 50's and if you imagine the Deltic livery, the line between the light and dark green should pass directly beneath the bottom of these vents and through the upper kick plate. I agree, they look a bit square cornered though...... As for the other point you make, I'm just not sure..... I think it may be an optical illusion due to the orange, but I do remember there is a rain channel above the engine room windows which was added really early in the locos life. I can't tell if the Heljan one has this from the photo and it may be that this is causing some visual distortion to you? It appears ok to me though, I'd have to get me ruler out to check it...... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Man's Handle Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's just that boiler port that needs to be moved closer to the roof ribbing strap to its right..... Yeah that's it exactly. The proportions of the actual outlet are also rather inaccurate within the recessed section. I still have a tiny hope I may find a photo that shows it all very clearly, but I've seen enough already that show this. Everything else looks ok on the model to my eye. Well the side vents look poor with the square corners (maybe the most important bit to get right, as they are perhaps the biggest element that make the loco visually distinct from a 55, and there are many photos that show this very clearly) and the engine room windows look a bit dodgy, but it could just be an issue with the photo, so I'll reserve judgement for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Man's Handle Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 ...but I do remember there is a rain channel above the engine room windows which was added really early in the locos life. I can't tell if the Heljan one has this from the photo... Yeah, I've only seen one photo of it before it had the rain channel - June 1962 while outside the Vulcan Foundry following initial testing (in the book British Rail Main Line Diesel Locomotives). I haven't seen any photos that show DP2 'out in the wild' that show it without the channel, so it'll be odd if the Heljan one doesn't have it. On each side it was made up of 3 sections, unlike the Craftsman Kits one (not sure about Silver Fox without going to look). Ade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.