Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Comment posted by THEWORRALLS on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:53 pm Steve, you are not mistaken, the 'box is still there, and moreover - having driven past on Sunday - the new road's going in fully protecting the alignment of the South Staffs! Do I detect a glimmer of foreward-thinking transport planning here, for a refreshing change? EDIT: Steve, just read a couple of your comments, and I think the trackbed is probably protected right back to Ryecroft, hence the bridge. ??? posted on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:59 pm Hi Ian. Sorry if I wasn't clear - I know the box is still there, because I drove past it! What I meant was, I wasn't sure if I'd identified the correct grey blob in my photo above, or indeed, whether it's even visible from that spot. By Ryecroft, are you talking about the junction on the NE of Walsall? If so, that's one heck of a lot of near-derelict (or actually derelict) line that's protected. have you seen the state of the Brownhills part? __________________________________________ Comment posted by krhgcrr on Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:03 pm Best thing that could ever happen would be to re-open Lichfield-Walsall and put a passinger service on. However since it will come down to who's paying it will more than likely never happen. Pity. Keith __________________________________________ Comment posted by THEWORRALLS on Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:08 pm Hehehehe - I adjusted my post twice before sending, because we didn't drive past the box, however it is definitely visible from your vantage point so 'Yes,' that's it, humble grey blob! And aye, I do mean Ryecroft by Butts Lane Walsall, large stretches of it are very walkable - adjacent to the site of Rushall (I think) level crossing the council have put black-top down as a linear footpath/ cycle-route over some distance. Close to the site of Norton Junction between Pelsall and Brownhills there's still a signal-post (saying that, I bet I saw a pic on this thread of it too!!!), standing presiding over precisely nothing. But I agree about Brownhills, it's like a linear water feature these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Comment posted by dave_long on Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:15 pm Hey hey, If you turn 180deg from this photo you can see my little house next to Waitrose!! Thats the view although a little further back from my upstairs windows. Anyway, sorry but here comes the bad news, work stopped on that bridge a number of months ago and so far I haven't heard why, although I haven't actually looked hard to find out. __________________________________________ Comment posted by DavidBelcher on Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:50 am krhgcrr wrote: Best thing that could ever happen would be to re-open Lichfield-Walsall and put a passinger service on. However since it will come down to who's paying it will more than likely never happen. Pity. Keith Is it just me or have Centro gone a bit lukewarm on the rail front these days? Since the days of the Jewellery Line and Walsall-Hednesford re-openings, plus the Cross-City electrification (though I believe much of the campaigning for getting the northern half done was down to Staffs County Council), they haven't made anything like as much effort to improve or expand. The low-profile Wolverhampton-Walsall resurrection, the failure to build a station at Willenhall, and the subsequent decline of the service as a probable result serve as the best example. David __________________________________________ Comment posted by dave47549 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:35 am DavidBelcher wrote: Is it just me or have Centro gone a bit lukewarm on the rail front these days? Centro are positively red-hot on rail (as they have been since day 1) - rail of the pointless squandering-of-money Metro variety.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Before I move on, I should just say something more on the disused and/or mothballed status of the line out of Lichfield pictured in the last set of photos. Whilst driving West-ish out of Lichfield on the A461 the other day, I noticed that a bridge has been built to carry the line over the M6 Toll. I'm not saying it's brand new - I'm sure it's not, I just hadn't spotted it before - but the builders of the new motorway had obviously been told, 10 years ago or whenever it was, to make sure that this railway could be used at some point in the future. Just how far away that future might be is clearly shown by pictures in this thread of Lichfield, Hammerwich and Brownhills! Still, we can live in hope... Anyway, to the matter in hand. After taking the last set of pictures on this page, I took a drive past Lichfield's "other" station, Trent Valley, on my way to Burton. Trent Valley serves two lines, of which one is aligned roughly N/S from Burton-on-Trent to Birmingham, and another which runs E/W-ish from Nuneaton and Tamworth to Rugeley and Stafford. The latter is the main route through Lichfield Trent Valley, running on the "lower" level. This is the view of the station looking East: Near the top of this picture, and just below the line of pylons on the horizon, you can just make out the bridge that carries the "upper" line. The turn-off to the left joins the two lines, but I'll come back to that shortly... Looking in the other direction from the bridge on which I was stood, this is the view to the West: Massive amounts of new catenary and a Plasser-Theurer thingammy are evidence of the recent widening of this main line - indeed, just out of shot to the right is a largish Network Rail yard with large bits of stuff laying around. Still, it was the turning which I mentioned in the first photo which intrigued me. Not only did it seem to be on a very sharp bend, but it had to rise to the level of the upper platforms in a very short space. I managed to find a lane leading from a nearby industrial estate which promised to show me more. Although it was a no-through road for traffic, the lane continued as a footpath, crossing the line at a signal box. This would be just off the left-hand side of the first photo above, behind the trees. I couldn't see if there were anyone in the box itself, although a car parked beside it could well have been a clue. Either way, what with all the recent talk of anti-terror legislation, I thought it best not to take a picture of the signal box itself - no point in upsetting anyone. What I had come to photograph was this: We are now looking almost due South, and the line to the right is the one which connects with the lower line, as seen in the first photograph. The sharpness of the curve and the gradient can be clearly made out, and the 30mph sign seems a little optimistic! Either side of the two lines on the left, you can just about make out the platforms of LTV's high level, and you can see that this is where the OHLE, used for all the traffic carrying passengers from Birmingham New street, comes to an end. The wires are hard to make out in this picture, but the telegraph pole-like supports for the catenary are clear enough. It's the "joining" bit of line that intrigues me, though - not having done any homework, I've no idea of its gradient, or the radius of its curve, but both must surely be quite unusual on the modern railway network. If anybody is interested in more pictures of this "poor relation" of Lichfield's better-known (but more mundane) station, I'll see what I can do. Equally, if anyone has any snippets of their own about this odd place (bearing in mind that it's stuck out right on the edge of this admittedly small city), I'd love to know more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 ANOTHER MESSAGE FROM THE PRESENT DAY: I have now finished transferring all the content from this thread on RMweb3 . Any new stuff I find, and feel like sharing, will naturally be posted on only this thread, not the old one - no sense in duplication. Of course, it's not all about me. If any of you have any snippets of information or photographs relevant to the topic, I would implore you to add your contributions to this modest thread. There's a huge amount of disused railway in the West Midlands, and I can't be expected to find it all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi Steve That is the Lichfield chord whch has been there ever since Whale and Bowen-Cooke were in charge of the Premier line !!!. There are timetabled daily movements over it, XC having an ECS booked both ways over it for route retention purposes. There is an early Central Rivers - New St ECS which is booked via Lichfield chord to Stafford, reverse, then via Bushbury Jn etc to New St. There's also a corresponding working in the evening from New St back to "the mother ship", again via Stafford. I'm certain Virgin use it for their Voyager ECS movements too, as well as DBS freight movements like a daily Toton-Basford Hall and return infrastructure working. Thanks for the pics - "new" Lichfield low level is unrecognisable !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 A view of Lichfield TV high level SB back in 1993. http://krhatfield466.fotopic.net/p49030144.html The A38 is just about visable behind on the embankment. and a view inside http://krhatfield466.fotopic.net/p49030142.html cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Thanks, guys - very interesting info from both of you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckdancer Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Ive just been reading ON THE FOOTPLATE AT BUSHBURY, 1947 - 1962, AN ENGINEMAN's TALE by Keith Terry. It's an interesting book and I highly recommend it! Anyway, Keith mentions the Sutton Park line and says he found it a terrifying ride in his time - an old 0-8-0 with unfitted wagons and a switchback of a ride. Extreme care having to be taken not to break couplings or shake up the guard. I never realised the line was a switchback and wondered what the current state was - any comments from current drivers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Ive just been reading ON THE FOOTPLATE AT BUSHBURY, 1947 - 1962, AN ENGINEMAN's TALE by Keith Terry. It's an interesting book and I highly recommend it! Anyway, Keith mentions the Sutton Park line and says he found it a terrifying ride in his time - an old 0-8-0 with unfitted wagons and a switchback of a ride. Extreme care having to be taken not to break couplings or shake up the guard. I never realised the line was a switchback and wondered what the current state was - any comments from current drivers? Not been over there for a long time but it was always riddled with slacks - 20 mphs galore. Wouldn't describe it as a switchback as such. Basically the line climbs from Castle Bromwich / Water Orton up through Penns, then levels out through Sutton Park old station, the climbs again through Streetly, over the A452 road. IIRC the gradient peaks at Aldridge and drops down through Ryecroft Jn into Walsall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Not been over there for a long time but it was always riddled with slacks - 20 mphs galore. Wouldn't describe it as a switchback as such. Basically the line climbs from Castle Bromwich / Water Orton up through Penns, then levels out through Sutton Park old station, the climbs again through Streetly, over the A452 road. IIRC the gradient peaks at Aldridge and drops down through Ryecroft Jn into Walsall. They've been doing a fair amount of work over the past couple of years, and I think the slacks have been reduced considerably, albeit the line speed is only 45 or so, IIRC. Your summary of the gradient profile is about right [i must be honest, although it practically runs past the house, since DBBT (Demise of Best of British Traction), I pay it about as much attention as your average Joe ######]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 You're nearly right Phil but you forgot the 'dip' between Streetly and Aldridge, with a heavy train on you have to keep hold of them going down there in either direction, then it's back up to notch 8 to get them over the next 'peak'. The long straight section in the woods at Streetly is a very spooky place at night..... one night I was going up the bank en route to Bescot and turned all the lights off on the loco for a few seconds.....it all went inky black! There's a foot crossing at the top end of this stretch which is a good spot for photography, I've seen a few regular faces there from time to time snapping away. Steve Jones (once of this parish!) has taken some good shots from there back in the 70s and 80s. Line speed is 45mph and the P/Way is in generally good order but there is no AWS between Park Lane and Ryecroft Junctions, you really do have to keep your wits about you under those condidtions. Once over the top at Aldridge you drop quite sharply down to Ryecroft, and the signal at the bottom which protects the junction has been been passed at danger many times over the years. As you come down through Ryecroft into Walsall it's still quite rough despite the recent remodelling of the pointwork, it's 20 mph through the station then 45 towards Bescot - trouble is we usually get stopped at Pleck Junction anyway so there's not much chance of getting a shift on. There's plenty more I could add about this bit of line but I've got to dash off.....doing a spot of road learning to Worcester this morning! More later Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 In the last couple of weeks there's been a bit of talk in the local papers about re-opening some of the lines in the West Midlands which are not currently used for passenger traffic, including the Sutton Park stretch. Interestingly, the Sutton Coldfield Observer suggests: ... Next stop in the journey would be another park stop, dubbed Sutton Park Station. Around £2.8m would be needed to build on the remnants of the beauty spot's disused station site where only a platform remains. Only 800 metres away lies the proposed site of Sutton Town Station. For £2.5m, it too would be built on the site of a former station, located in Midland Drive. Both of these sites, of course, have been discussed at some length in this thread. Certainly, it would be no great task to re-build Sutton Park station, as the site is vacant, and would only need a couple of platforms and a footbridge to be usable again. OK, I'm not an engineer, but most of the ground has already been cleared, and there's pretty easy access to the site. Sutton Town would be a different prospect, I should think, if they are seriously considering re-using the existing site. The buildings I discovered and photographed (see early in this thread for more details) would almost certainly end up being pulled down, along with a lot of trees, and the old main building is now offices - will the current occupants be kicked out? Of course, you could have the new main entrance on the other side of the tracks, with just a platform behind Midland Drive, but this would make the station a bit less convenient for the centre of Sutton. I'd also remind the planners why Sutton Town station closed so long ago - it was too close to the other Sutton stations, and didn't get enough traffic. Even with the capability to beuild unmanned stations, are 2 within 800yds really viable? Anyway, plenty of food for thought, with mentions, too, of Aldridge, Streetly and Penns stations, amongst others - the full article can be read on the "This is Sutton Coldfield" site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_anorak59 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Sorry to butt in, but I've just dicovered this topic - facinating! Thought you might like to know that a model of (a derelict) Sutton Park Stn building has been made - see: http://www.gtbuildingsmodels.co.uk/page6.html and click on the seventh picture on the drop-down that's overlaid on the first picture. I actually bought this model on Ebay quite a few years ago for a bargain price - don't know why 'cos I've got no use for it Anyway - thought it might be of interest. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 Thought you might like to know that a model of (a derelict) Sutton Park Stn building has been made... I actually bought this model on Ebay quite a few years ago for a bargain price - don't know why 'cos I've got no use for it Anyway - thought it might be of interest. Cheers. Of course it's of interest - very nice indeed, particularly as even the derelict building is no longer there. As for "why?", I'm sure most of us look at stuff we've bought and ask the same thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Is there a direct link to the pic/ item itself, only I can't find the drop-down? Aaagh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_anorak59 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Can't see the thin strip of photos overlaid on the first picture? Hmmm... If you give me a couple of days, I'll take some piccys of the model from a few angles and post here if you like - would that be any good? (assuming I can take a decent picture for once...) BTW IMO its a cracking model and a credit to its builder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Found the drop-down on "Home page" top left. Slightly disappointing as the photo's had no captions to say what the models represented. Never used the Sutton Park station, I lived too close and could cycle to the park in 15-20 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_anorak59 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 As promised, photographs of the derelict Sutton Park Station buildings, as modelled by Geoff Taylor (GT Buildings), circa 2002 (according to the original invoices that came with the model when I bought it). I think it represents the station as it was in about 1980, as there was a picture on Steve Jones's Electric Nose site (which doesn't seem to be operational any more) dated 26/09/80, which showed the station in exactly this condition. Sorry about the delay, but I've been trying to upload for the past two days, and the pictures were being squashed. There were going to be two more: one of the other end of the building, and an overal view, but these are the only ones that are not distorted - any ideas? Site problems? Apologies also for the not-so-great quality, but I forgot to reset the white balance from indoor to outdoor, and I've only just realised (oops) The roadside elevation of the building has not been modelled, (obviously intended to go against a backscene when built) so no pictures of that, but I hope the post is of some use. Billy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckdancer Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 What superb models - my compliments to GT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Wow! The hours I spent loitering around there awaiting classic Blue traction. Even as late as 1015's return to the main line - her loaded test run went past here. And I wagged half-day from the Met to witness the spectacle It's sad to see the place laid waste now. At least I managed to save some bricks and floor tiles from the wreck before it was finally pulled down. Hard to believe the up building at Sutton Town is still basically intact, despite nearly a century of closure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted April 15, 2010 Author Share Posted April 15, 2010 It's sad to see the place laid waste now. At least I managed to save some bricks and floor tiles from the wreck before it was finally pulled down. Hard to believe the up building at Sutton Town is still basically intact, despite nearly a century of closure. The Sutton Town building is also quite similar, from the view I managed to obtain (the down building is completely intact, of course, but it's painted white now...), so if you want a few more matching bricks or tiles, you know where to go. I'm joking, of course, as I do not condone any form of vandalism - unless it's in the interests of preservation! A couple of quick questions for all you clever bods on the history of Sutton Coldfield: 1)In the most recent Sutton Observer, there's a picture of the old Tithe Barn, and a comment that it was demolished in the 19th century to make way for the Midland Railway. The photo is not well captioned, but from the look of the other buildings, I reckon it could be High Street, taken from in front of where the Police Station now stands. This would mean that the Tithe Barn stood right on what is now the railway bridge, adjacent to the College. Does this make any sense (if you live near Sutton, it might...), and more to the point, am I on the right lines? 2)Following on from question 1, and going back to Sutton Town station: the station was accessed from Midland Drive. Would it be safe to assume that this road was named after the railway, and indeed, was probably purposely built to proide station access? Thinking about it, there's also a Midland Road on the other side of Sutton Park station, which leads nowhere in particular any more - I realise that I'm referring to England's biggest park as "nowhere", but bear with me. Was that road, too, possibly named after the railway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Midland Drive was configured specifically for that purpose Steve, unless I'm very much mistook. Midland Road served the far side of Sutton Park station, which was accessed by footbridge from over there, and I expect the development was pretty much at the same time as the railway, so I would hazard a guarded yes there too. The tithe barn made me scratch my chin too, was trying to work it out from the lie of the land and the curvature etc of the street. I have it down as in the vicinity of the Butco (yes really, non-locals) gas showroom, which is right next to the bridge adjacent the college, as you've said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 The tithe barn made me scratch my chin too, was trying to work it out from the lie of the land and the curvature etc of the street. I have it down as in the vicinity of the Butco (yes really, non-locals) gas showroom, which is right next to the bridge adjacent the college, as you've said. I was in the vicinity again the other day (who am I kidding? I live in the vicinity), so I took the following picture to try and confirm our hunch about the location. Unfortunately, like a twit, I've thrown away the relevant copy of the paper, but for the benefit of anyone still holding on to a 10-day-old copy of the Sutton Coldfield Observer, this is my effort at recreating what I believe to be the scene on the "history spot" page, sans tithe barn! If I'm right, the barn would have sat where the wooden gate and bridge parapet are in the picture above. A much smaller (and unclickable) verson of the original photo may by found by following this link. The above-mentioned wooden gate, incidentally, was the one mentioned very early on in this thread, leading, as it does, down to the site of Sutton town station. While I was there, I thought it might be worth a re-visit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I went to the post office depot to collect a letter the other day and part of the old station building if not all of it has gone I was not able to get very close as there was construction fencing up but there is now nothing behind the post office depot the old goods building is still there but it does look in a sorry state. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_anorak59 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Don't know if anybody's seen this (out today) - if you're in the area, you're probably aware anyway: http://archive.railwayherald.com/Issue219.pdf And go to page 4 - "Reopening possible for Midlands route?" Billy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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