Revitalizing Wrenn locos.

[handyman]

Hullo All, in my files, I have a copy of the plans for making the remagnetizer mentioned. PM me if you are interested and I'll try and dig it out.

 

The details came through from one of the many Hornby Dublo forums.

 

Personally, all my HD and Wrenn locos are fitted with Neodyn magnets when they show any signs of performance deteriation. I like to keep them going, stuff originality.

 

Handyman

[beeman]

Hullo All, in my files, I have a copy of the plans for making the remagnetizer mentioned. PM me if you are interested and I'll try and dig it out.

 

The details came through from one of the many Hornby Dublo forums.

 

Personally, all my HD and Wrenn locos are fitted with Neodyn magnets when they show any signs of performance deteriation. I like to keep them going, stuff originality.

 

Handyman

Be interesting if you could post your 'experiences' re fitting neo magnets. There seems to be quite a few sceptics on the benefits of these on the forums. from 'locked' armatures to burn outs. I have posted re fitting to the older Hornby ringfields, and interesting to read some of the replies/ comments. I am waiting the delivery of a Neo ring for a Hornby Princess that has been fitted with a 5 pole arm, but has little power. Also further to my suggestions , one supplier has 'picked up the gauntlet' by selling a correct sized replacement for the older ringfields. Expensive though, over £10.00 with post. I will stick with my proven, slightly undersize item.I will post results after I receive and fit. Beeman.

[Re6/6]

Hi all. Many thanks again for your assistance and all the tips at revitalizing the Wrenn engines. The 'mint boxed' ones were for the most part stuck almost solid, as was suggested on here that the oil that Wrenn used set hard with time, and that turned out to be the case. The white spirit tip (thanks David) certainly did the trick in almost a 100% of the cases. It may be that when I get round to looking at the unboxed items the remagnetizing may be needed. I'll see about it then!

[Il Grifone]

I've never had any problems with neo magnets, beyond a couple being a bit oversize and requiring modifications to the pole pieces to fit properly. I found that a full size magnet is a bit too strong and caused Duchess drawbars to lift out of position. This doesn't affect operation, but I now use smaller (and cheaper) cube magnets, calculating than the loss in power due to the smaller size is compensated by the extra magnetic strength. I can't say I've noticed the smoother operation claimed for neos though and any increase in motor power is lost as the limit to haulage is still adhesion.

[Colin_McLeod]

. One day I'd quite like to have a loop of coarse scale track it could run on, for old time's sake.

 

Why not try something like this on a shelf above your main layout:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/70/entry-218-Hornby-dublo-3-rail-in-cork/

[Il Grifone]

Why not try something like this on a shelf above your main layout:

http://www.rmweb.co....3-rail-in-cork/

 

An excellent idea! My problem is lack of space!

[RebGershon]

Hi there,

 

I'm new to this site but have been a model railwayer since early childhood.

 

Unfortunately, my kit had to be packed away and stored for over 30 years due to the arrival of babies and need for space.

 

However, I'm now wanting to rebuild my layout for the grandchildren (well that's my excuse).

 

I have 30+ locos all Triang/Hornby Dublo/Wrenn manufacture. Some of the locos have kept well with plenty of power and magnetism remaining. In my later teenage years I worked Saturdays and 1 summer holiday at the former King Charles Sports Centre in Leeds which became a branch of Beatties. Whilst there I was able to avail myself of abundant Triang & HD parts as well as the Hornby Dublo 'Re-mag' machine. As some of the locos are now denuded of magnetism, I have been investigating possible ways of re-magging.

 

A friend who's is all knowledgeable suggested using an old bulk eraser for magnetic tape. Has anyone any thoughts on this method as apparently the machine creates a high magnetic field to wipe the existing magnetic orientation of the tape's magnetic particles.

 

Alternatively, is there anyone in the Manchester/East Lancs. area who has a re-mag machine?

 

TIA,

 

Geoff.

[Il Grifone]

1092

Welcome to RMweb!

 

The bulk eraser unfortunately does just that*. It applies an alternating field to the tape to demagnetise it, which is  exactly the opposite to what is required. It might be possible to modify it to give a direct field, but I wouldn't like to advise on this.

 

My solution is neodymium magnets, which are quite cheap (I use two 6mm cubes plus a couple of steel 3mm washers for the vertical motors). Strangely, I have never handled a Tri-ang motor that needed a remag.

 

* A direct current causes a 'thump' to be recorded when it is switched off.

[sagaguy]

Over the years,i have had HD locos sent away for repair & remagging but they have never been as powerful as when they were new.I have since fitted a couple with Neo magnets & they have rejuvenated tired locos.

 

                             Ray.

[Dublodad]

Ronald Dodd manufacturers remagnetisers for Hornby Dublo/Wrenn magnets. I believe that he advertises them on ebay. Not cheap but work very well and are safer than the remgnetiser working off a 12 volt battery

 

I have a Ron Dodd remagnetiser for my extensive roster of Dublo locomotives,

 

Terry

[RebGershon]

Thanks for your replies.

 

You just saved me bidding on a Weircliffe bulk eraser on ebay.

 

I'd be interested in the Neodymium magnets if they really work. Any suggestions for suppliers?

 

I have the following HD locos:

EDL18 2-6-4 Tank with 3 rail conversion

EDL18 2-6-4 Tank 2 rail

2216 0-6-2 Tank 2 rail x 2

2205 0-6-0 Rank 2 rail

2234 Deltic 2 rail

2234 Deltic with 3 rail conversion

EDL12 Duchess 3 rail conversion

2230 BO-BO 2 rail

2232 Diesel Shunter 2 rail

Wrenn 2206 0-6-0 Tank

Wrenn 2216 0-6-2 Tank

Wrenn 2226 City 

 

What size magnets would be needed for these and Triang X04/motor bogie motors?

 

Also how does one find Ronald Dod for a remagger?

 

TIA 

 

Geoff.

[Il Grifone]

846

The vertical motors - 2-6-4T, Duchess/City and Dublo N2 tank (also the A4) all respond to the 6mm cube magnets (some have needed four) Magnets for the early horseshoe, 1/2" motor (Castle, 8F and 0-6-0T plus Wrenn N2) and the various ringfields and Tri-ang motors are all available on eBay. (I have found the firms website is cheaper sometimes).

 

I have never needed magnets for the Bo-Bo diesels, 1/2" motors or the Tri-ang motors so cannot advise on these. Add-on magnets are available as well which just stick on the pole pieces, but I have not tried these either.

 

The great advantage of neo magnets is that they do not demagnetise if the motor is dismantled, unlike the AlNiCo type. This saves all that messing around with keeper plates.

 

My Deltic was very tired until I fitted her with a neo magnet, but my Co-Bo is still OK with the original (same motor).

 

My two best runners are a horseshoe 'Athol' and a Southern 0-6-2T, both of which still have their original magnets.

[RebGershon]

 

846

The vertical motors - 2-6-4T, Duchess/City and Dublo N2 tank (also the A4) all respond to the 6mm cube magnets (some have needed four) Magnets for the early horseshoe, 1/2" motor (Castle, 8F and 0-6-0T plus Wrenn N2) and the various ringfields and Tri-ang motors are all available on eBay. (I have found the firms website is cheaper sometimes).

 

I have never needed magnets for the Bo-Bo diesels, 1/2" motors or the Tri-ang motors so cannot advise on these. Add-on magnets are available as well which just stick on the pole pieces, but I have not tried these either.

 

The great advantage of neo magnets is that they do not demagnetise if the motor is dismantled, unlike the AlNiCo type. This saves all that messing around with keeper plates.

 

My Deltic was very tired until I fitted her with a neo magnet, but my Co-Bo is still OK with the original (same motor).

 

My two best runners are a horseshoe 'Athol' and a Southern 0-6-2T, both of which still have their original magnets.

 

Hi David,

 

thanks for your reply, but what's 846?

[Il Grifone]

983

Re 846

 

I've no idea!   It appears to be a glitch in the programme though.

 

Random numbers started  appearing in my posts a week or two ago. I can edit them out, but reposting then sticks another one in. This is only a minor niggle, but now I find the 'quote' button will only open the reply without posting the quote (as has happened here.)

 

Perhaps it's telling me that I should be doing some modelling rather than wasting time on RMweb.

 

EDIT it's stuck 983 on now

 

Further EDIT  I've just remembered that 3/8" cube magnets were sold for Bo-Bo diesels on eBay some time ago*. They'd probably do the vertical armature as well. Some padding with steel washers might be necessary, but were said to not be needed with the Bo-Bos though they wouldn't hurt.

 

* I haven't seen this seller on eBay recently, but other suppliers are available.

996

[stewartingram]

I've just picked up on this thread again (after someone put a "Like" to one of my earlier posts, seems for some reason it completely dropped off my radar for a considerable time and I've missed a lot of posts!

Anyway, there was sum discussion going on about remagnetising; to cut to the point, I have a professionral remagnetiser, acquired during my days as a service engineer in the model trade. It is a large machine, cost around £200 I believe back in the '70s? I didn't pay for it though, the shop did, and I acquired it when they closed down for a song!

 

Stewart

[Dubloduke]

Thanks for your replies.

 

You just saved me bidding on a Weircliffe bulk eraser on ebay.

 

I'd be interested in the Neodymium magnets if they really work. Any suggestions for suppliers?

 

I have the following HD locos:

EDL18 2-6-4 Tank with 3 rail conversion

EDL18 2-6-4 Tank 2 rail

2216 0-6-2 Tank 2 rail x 2

2205 0-6-0 Rank 2 rail

2234 Deltic 2 rail

2234 Deltic with 3 rail conversion

EDL12 Duchess 3 rail conversion

2230 BO-BO 2 rail

2232 Diesel Shunter 2 rail

Wrenn 2206 0-6-0 Tank

Wrenn 2216 0-6-2 Tank

Wrenn 2226 City 

 

What size magnets would be needed for these and Triang X04/motor bogie motors?

 

Also how does one find Ronald Dod for a remagger?

 

TIA 

 

Geoff.

Hi Geoff, here is a link to Ron`s ebay auction for his re-magnetizer.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Dublo-Wrenn-Triang-magnet-Re-Magnetiser-Vintage-Scalextric-/251915416224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa75432a0

 

I bought one about six months ago, it is superb. I have a fleet of over 20 Dublo locos, they all had Neos fitted but now I have reused the original magnets and sold my neos.

 

Richard.

[mikesndbs]

Hi guys

 

Back in 2004 I took the step of replacing most magnets with super neo types.

This included the ringfield types fitted to my Wrenn Dorchester and 8F.

 

I have to say that while these magnets reduce considerably the current required to move the loco, they are just far too strong.

I am fed up with screw drivers sticking to the side of locos, and you have little chance when trying to remove the rear fixing screw on X04 types.

 

My question is, given the extreme power, would it be possible to remagnetize old magnets using these super neos?

[sagaguy]

I recall that when i was bought my first H/D loco,a Silver King in the early 1950`s,srewdrivers indeed did stick to the loco body when new.The magnets were extremly powerful when new.

 

                        Ray.

[stewartingram]

|nd are powerful again after I've remagnetised them.

 

Stewart

[Il Grifone]

Hi guys

 

Back in 2004 I took the step of replacing most magnets with super neo types.

This included the ringfield types fitted to my Wrenn Dorchester and 8F.

 

I have to say that while these magnets reduce considerably the current required to move the loco, they are just far too strong.

I am fed up with screw drivers sticking to the side of locos, and you have little chance when trying to remove the rear fixing screw on X04 types.

 

My question is, given the extreme power, would it be possible to remagnetize old magnets using these super neos?

 

Small neos are available on eBay for attaching to to the original magnet. I haven't tried them however.

 

I doubt that a neo would permanently remagnetise another magnet. It would need to be done in situ.

(I would like to be proved wrong on this!)

 

Screwdrivers will indeed stick to full strength Dublo magnets, but not as strongly as to a full size neo. I use smaller ones for this reason. ( A full size neo will lift a 'Duchess'/'City' drawbar and cause problems.)

[Colin_McLeod]

I suspect that a replacement drawbar could be easily fabricated from a non ferrous material such as aluminium.

[dcordingley]

Just to add my own thoughts on this subject following an extensive rebuild of my Hornby Dublo 3 -rail layout.

 

i had fitted a number of poorly performing locos with neo-magnets a few years ago in accordance with the advice of the time. Then came the revised view that neo-magnets generated just too much magnetic flux and were not properly matched for the performance of HD armatures, leading to burn-outs and armature bearings wearing out rapidly. . This seemed to make sense to me - after all, Meccano Ltd had an excellent reputation for model engineering, and it seems likely that the original magnets (fully "charged") and armatures were indeed optimally matched for performance.

 

Fortunately I had kept all the original HD magnets, so I invested in a Ron Dodd magnetizer, reinstalled the original magnets and re-magnetised them in accordance with Ron's instructions. (Some motors can be remagnetized in situ; some require dismantling of the motor.)  The results have been excellent, with performace every bit as good as I remember the originals. I fully recommend this course of action. Ron's device is not cheap (but you get a discount if you join the Hornby Railway Collectors Association - also recommended!) but it's a very strongly engineered machine and will last a lifetime. I expect to routinely remagnetize my locos every few years (more frequently if dismantling motors for servicing) for optimum performance, so it's an important piece of kit for me.

 

David Cordingley    

[Il Grifone]

I suspect that a replacement drawbar could be easily fabricated from a non ferrous material such as aluminium.

 

I have made them from 1mm copper wire with success. which also allows the engine tender gap to be reduced (it's generous even for Dublo curves).

[mikesndbs]

Thanks for the replies.

 

This subject really gets me lol,

 

As stated above, back in 2004 I invested in a good many superNeos, while some locos run whispa smooth, other grind horribly.

The current needed drops dramatically to around 100mA which is very helpful with the modern breed of controllers.

But, I am no over happy with the downsides of neos, fed up with having to prise things off motors and am concerned about bearing wear.

I was assured by the supplier of the magnets that bearings would not wear as the forced would be exerted evenly over the armature thus not pulling it in any particular direction.

 

Like David I kept all the old magnets and am very inclined to follow his re-magnetizer idea.

However I am also intrigued by the idea of adding small neos to the originals, the only pitfall there might be space issues.

 

Ah, what to do????

Thanks for the replies.

 

This subject really gets me lol,

 

As stated above, back in 2004 I invested in a good many superNeos, while some locos run whispa smooth, other grind horribly.

The current needed drops dramatically to around 100mA which is very helpful with the modern breed of controllers.

But, I am no over happy with the downsides of neos, fed up with having to prise things off motors and am concerned about bearing wear.

I was assured by the supplier of the magnets that bearings would not wear as the forced would be exerted evenly over the armature thus not pulling it in any particular direction.

 

Like David I kept all the old magnets and am very inclined to follow his re-magnetizer idea.

However I am also intrigued by the idea of adding small neos to the originals, the only pitfall there might be space issues.

 

Ah, what to do????

[Andy Reichert]

Thanks for the replies.

 

This subject really gets me lol,

 

As stated above, back in 2004 I invested in a good many superNeos, while some locos run whispa smooth, other grind horribly.

The current needed drops dramatically to around 100mA which is very helpful with the modern breed of controllers.

But, I am no over happy with the downsides of neos, fed up with having to prise things off motors and am concerned about bearing wear.

I was assured by the supplier of the magnets that bearings would not wear as the forced would be exerted evenly over the armature thus not pulling it in any particular direction.

 

Like David I kept all the old magnets and am very inclined to follow his re-magnetizer idea.

However I am also intrigued by the idea of adding small neos to the originals, the only pitfall there might be space issues.

 

Ah, what to do????

Thanks for the replies.

 

This subject really gets me lol,

 

As stated above, back in 2004 I invested in a good many superNeos, while some locos run whispa smooth, other grind horribly.

The current needed drops dramatically to around 100mA which is very helpful with the modern breed of controllers.

But, I am no over happy with the downsides of neos, fed up with having to prise things off motors and am concerned about bearing wear.

I was assured by the supplier of the magnets that bearings would not wear as the forced would be exerted evenly over the armature thus not pulling it in any particular direction.

 

Like David I kept all the old magnets and am very inclined to follow his re-magnetizer idea.

However I am also intrigued by the idea of adding small neos to the originals, the only pitfall there might be space issues.

 

Ah, what to do????

 

My early experience with my original Tri-ang Princess, was that the motor bearings wore out rapidly just with the original magnet. The grinding as the armature rubbed against the pole pieces was awful.  There were no neos in those days - so the wear wasn't due to them.

 

I suspect your problem with some motors grinding, is that those particular motors already have badly worn bearings, but your original magnets had become too weak to pull them fully out of line.

 

All motors need good bearings, and if well used, they need maintaining/replacing at intervals regardless. Doing that will likely fix the real problem. It's not possible for new magnets to compensate for that.

 

Andy