m davies Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hello Michael, I've had a look at the Scorpio list and they do do a Castle kit in 7mm complete with 3500 gal. or 4000gal. tender for £280. They also do the 4000gal. 8 wheeled Collett tender. What that was all about I don't know, as it was a standard 4000gal. tender body on an 8 wheeled set of frames. No extra water or coal, so all it have been for was to reduce the axle loading, But if your going to do that why run it with your bigger locos eg. Castles and Halls seem to have been its main companions. Sorry to babel on a bit there, Scorpio's phone No. is 01633 279897 and ask for Pat. If you do get one please do a photo build on here. Let us know how you get on as well please. OzzyO. Ozzy, I've no idea which variant it'd be, I'm not a GWR fan per se but do have a soft spot/respect for Castles and to some extent Kings for their presumptuous title of most powerful 4-6-0, which we all know goes to the Royal Scots LOL. The Castle would be BR with double chimney and with out more detailed research ( I tend to research the current project and perhaps the next perceived two ) thats about as concise as I can be. I've opted to model in 1:32 which is 9.5mm scale, but most Gauge1 models seem to be in the larger 10mm 1:30.5 scale, thats not a lot of difference but if your going to the lengths of scaling loco to the track then dropping a 10mm next to a 9.5mm might be an issue, more so the overall size rather than the detail. I can only presume that these photo etch suppliers are simply rescaling their 7mm etches to 10mm, probably at the etchers and not on the master drawings, in which case it should be easy enough to scale one at 9.5mm, I'd expect a premium fee for a one off scaling but if possible I'd stump for that, castings would be a different affair, mind but would a 10mm Axel box and spring look out of place on a 9.5mm scale loco?, how anorak do you need to get about it or care for ones own personal reasons. I did speak to MoK about something similar with their 8F, like other manufacturers I believe they are considering larger scale etches from current 7mm stock, the main issue seems to be the slot and tab, which when scaled does not sit well with the thickness of metal used or available in the larger scales. Its all a little exploratory at the moment. Rest assured if they will entertain a Gauge 1 Castle and hopefully 9.5mm and I do drop for one, then rest assured I'll do a photo build, warts and all , failing that scratch build it'll have to be but behind one or two others first, right, must get back to this beastly class 40 lol. Keep up the good work. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev T Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hello Michael, They also do the 4000gal. 8 wheeled Collett tender. What that was all about I don't know, as it was a standard 4000gal. tender body on an 8 wheeled set of frames. No extra water or coal, so all it have been for was to reduce the axle loading, But if your going to do that why run it with your bigger locos eg. Castles and Halls seem to have been its main companions. OzzyO. If I'm correct the 8 wheel tender was originally bult for the Great Bear, but when it was rebuilt as a Castle the tender was then used as a standard unit behind Castles. I've not read that it was run behind Kings, but that's not to say it didn't. Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 If I'm correct the 8 wheel tender was originally bult for the Great Bear, but when it was rebuilt as a Castle the tender was then used as a standard unit behind Castles. I've not read that it was run behind Kings, but that's not to say it didn't. Kev This is the experimental one off 8 wheeled Collett tender not the double bogie one used with the Great Bear. I would like one of these to go with 5904 Kelham Hall the last loco to run with it and both where condemed together. Theres a great colour picture on Rail photo prints. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_S Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I've just bought myself a JLTRT 4575 and looks like you have done a fantastic build of the 45XX so that will be a huge helping hand! thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 I've just bought myself a JLTRT 4575 and looks like you have done a fantastic build of the 45XX so that will be a huge helping hand! thanks It was a 44xx, but the two kits will be similar in the build dep. If you get stuck send me a PM and I'll try to help you out. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 If I'm correct the 8 wheel tender was originally bult for the Great Bear, but when it was rebuilt as a Castle the tender was then used as a standard unit behind Castles. I've not read that it was run behind Kings, but that's not to say it didn't. Kev Hello Kev, as Steve has said it's a different tender. AFAICR I have never seen a photo of the ex Great Bears tender behind a Castle. IIRC it ended up behind a 4-4-0. The Kings only ever ran with Collett 4000 gal. tenders. The only time that I have seen a King with a different type of tender behind it was in Swindon works, it may have not been coupled up, but just been stood on the same road. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This is the experimental one off 8 wheeled Collett tender not the double bogie one used with the Great Bear. I would like one of these to go with 5904 Kelham Hall the last loco to run with it and both where condemed together. Theres a great colour picture on Rail photo prints. Steve Did a 'Bing' search for '5904 Kelham Hall' and, oddly, it came up with a jigsaw which has the engine and the eight wheel tender! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev T Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hello Kev, as Steve has said it's a different tender. AFAICR I have never seen a photo of the ex Great Bears tender behind a Castle. IIRC it ended up behind a 4-4-0. The Kings only ever ran with Collett 4000 gal. tenders. The only time that I have seen a King with a different type of tender behind it was in Swindon works, it may have not been coupled up, but just been stood on the same road. OzzyO. oops and I thought I'd answered a question for once. I confess I wasn't even aware of an 8 wheeler that wasn't the bogie one from the pacific. Just got back from Kettering and for once didn't spend too much money, I've decided to finish what I've got before buying something else. Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hello all, I've had a go with the black etch primer on the tender wheels, it dries to a nice satin finish, so no need for a top coat OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi Ozzyo, That's good to know that your happy with the new primer, I will be getting some once my other tin of Halfords has been used up. Do you think it has more "grab" for want of a better word and won't flake or chip as much ? And are you going to clean the treads or do you think they might polish up a bit ? Thanks for the update, ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't know who makes the new primer as it has not turned up yet, I will let you know when it turns up if it has it on the can. As it seems to have arrived was there a label on the can? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hello Martyn, all, I have used etch primer on all my builds for the last 6 or 7 years, as I find it "sticks" better than the Halfords primer and I also think that it has a better finish. The black etch primer has dried to a nice satin finish so no more paint needed there. The wheel treads will be cleaned up later on. The next job on the wheels is to metal black the axles. Back to the build. The first parts of the scoop gear in place The scoop linkage, not all thing are big in 7mm The scoop with the last link in place The scoop gear all fitted in place, I have cut the operating rod behind the wheels just to make sure that nothing will touch The front end of the frames showing the brake cylinder, brake linkage and scoop operating gear The sequence that I used for folding up the brake blocks, on the first five I did it with the half etch to the outside of the fold. On the last one I did it with the half etch on the inside of the fold. If I do any more of these I think that I will stick to the half etch on the outside of the fold The completed brake blocks, the top ones are from the inside and the bottom ones from the outside. You can see that I angle the face of the blocks to match the wheel tread The brake hangers, there are two types of these so I did a dry run on one that I wont be using, the following is the bend sequence that I used The finished hanger, soldered together Checking the fit of the brake block Now another six to do. I can see that I may have some fun when I come to fit the brake pull rods to the hangers, in that the the brake hanger pivots are fitted to the rocking units and the pull rod have to fit to, A] the frames, fixed, B] the front rocking unit, front pull rod C] the front rocking unit to the rear compensation unit, middle pull rod. The plus side to the above is that I should be able to get the blocks nice and close to the wheels with out any chance of any shorts. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 As it seems to have arrived was there a label on the can? Hello Kenton. all, no actual makers name on the can, just the suppliers name. Fascinating Finishes Ltd., plus email address etc. Phone No. 01482 342216, Email, info@kpaints.co.uk Web, www.paintsrus.co.uk Hope that helps. OzzyO. Edit to the web address added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Looks like a Hull number...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Looks like a Hull number...... well spotted, it is. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hello John, I got it through ebay, I think that I put acid etch primer black in to the search engine. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Fascinating Finishes also have lots of other stuff in their ebay shop. I wonder what their varnishes are like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ebay link to the black primer here if thats any help....Will be ordering some myself. Thanks OzzyO! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 With reference to the original discussion on the ecth primer see below :- I forgot to say it is a bit of a b****er to find on ebay, but this is the item number you need :- Item number: 170781049587 ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 OzzyO Going back to your Bulldog I hope that I can attach a photo (first try!) of City of Truro sent to me in answer to my enquiries on the GOG forum regarding the layout of the cylinder front. This is the only surviving loco with a similar design of the front end. It shows that there were no circular cover plates. What is clear is that you can see the right hand front compression relief valve and just see the central snifting (steam chest air) valve. As the cylinders are high in the block, the cylinder ends were completely hidden by the flat cover plate which forms the front of the saddle (my guess is that the prominent bolt may be at the centre line of the rhs cylinder). This seems to suggest that the Martin Finney interpretation of the cylinder/valve fronts is correct. I also note that you had asked about missing fret parts. I suggest that you try Martin Finney himself as he was most helpful to me in supplying for a complete set of scrap brass body etches for a straight frame bulldog (which I needed to raid for some missing parts myself)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hello gateman49, I would say that the bolt head is fixing the plate to the front of the cylinder cover, the same would be on the L/H cover. I don't think that the plate is part of the saddle, it's more like a modesty cover. As the Bulldog is going to be finished in the last months of it's life, I don't think that it's unreasonable for it to have lost this cover by then. That apart both the owner and I like the look of it. Thanks for your input, and welcome to RMweb, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hello again OzzyO,, Glad to have been of some help even if my input came late in the day. I don't blame you for sticking with what you've done already as I must state that I think that your work is inspirational. Having skimmed through your pages, and seen the number of hits from others, it's not just my own opinion and I will now read all 24 or so pages more closely as they are full of ideas! Regards Gateman49 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hello all, just to go back a bit and to use the same photo twice, a set of tender wheels before and after metal blacking the axle First fit of the tender wheels, from the left and right sides The first three sets of brakes and hanger now in place from above and below The second side in place The brakes and pull rods from underneath, I have cut the front cross shaft to try and give a bit more play between the front wheel set and the rear two wheel sets, as the hangers are mounted to the front and rear compensation units. I will find out more when she has had a run on the test track. That is it for now on the frames Onto the body work now and a mind numbing couple of hours punching out the rivets on the following three parts. First the coal space. This was a bit of a bu99er to fold up as some of the rivets are where you want to clamp the box, the small L angle on the sides of the box beaning the main one. So out came some thin cardboard to cover the rivets and job done Then the sub footplate, you can just see that I have scored the etch fold line to just show on the out side The tender tank body, this did take some time, the best of it is most of them will be hidden by the coal, but ha we know that there their. This photo probable shows up the scoring of the half etched lines better than the last photo Starting on the fold up of the tank, first the two sides then the half etched panels, then the tank fonts and then the back The tank and coal hole in place on the sub-footplate, I now have to decide on which of the three types of footplate to fit. I may end up cutting out panels in the sides and base so that I can get my iron into the inside to solder the overlays on. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Tis coming along nicely. That primer sure looks good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Hi OzzyO, I've now read through the Bulldog part of this thread in more detail and though you've obviously moved on I wonder if you can enlighten me on the frame build? The Finney etches are clearly blown up from 4mm and MF gives three spacing options even for the 7mm kit. The model which I took over had been built using the middle set of spacers (EM in 4mm) with Slaters wheels. This frame spacing leads to one issue regarding the footplate opening under the smoke box. as the working frames are consequently narrower than the dummy frames attached to the footplate and there is an un-prototypical and visible gap between the two. In passing, when rebuilding it, I modified the loco to have full inside working cranks by using a new Slaters axle with soldered and pinned cranks (belt and braces) which I then sawed through with bated breath. With the "EM" spacings this necessitated reversing (and thinning) of the axle boxes on the crank axle so that there was just enough room for the inside cranks. Even then, I had to thin the horn guides as well as setting the cranks slightly inset from the slide bars! By the way, I noted your comment about the Finney "compensation" beams! As far as I can see, these don't give true compensation as defined by Mike Sharman so I will be using sprung axle boxes when I turn to two of his Bulldogs that I have to build myself (one of which, like your featured loco will have Harris wheels with full crank detail superbly turned by Richard Hersey). I'd like to use the widest setting to try to avoid this gap showing at the front end. Your built loco appeared to have this as I can see P4 on the spacers in one of your photos. So, how did you achieve this? Did you use the widest spacers (P4) which equate to Scaleseven and then trim them back to 26mm (parts 9 & 10) and 24.25mm (parts 11 & 12) as MF suggests in his instructions? I'd find this laborious to achieve and it would mess up the fit of the front buffer beam and rear drag beam both of which have three etched recess options for the inside frames. I'd be grateful for your advice on how you squeezed it all in across the frames. Thanks in advance Ps. On the point of what is actually visible between the frames here, I have the advantage of having a copy of a booklet, G W R Two Cylinder Piston Valve Steam Locomotives written by the late Ernie Nutty which goes into a lot of useful technical detail with even more useful drawings of the various valves etc. If you can get a copy I recommend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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