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Building a G.W.R. Grange + more in 7mm OF from a JLTRT kit starts on P.85 by OzzyO,





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#601 ozzyo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:51

Hello gateman49, all,

sorry but I cant really help you with the frames as I didn't build them, but measuring them between the drivers it looks to be 26mm and around the valve gear 24mm. The narrowing around the valve gear will have been done to give the bogie wheels a bit more clearance, you could not have arches as the flange of the bogie wheels come almost to the top of the main frames. HTH.

Back onto the build now.

The outer frames as first riveted at the top, but when I came to fit the spring hangers the four rivets in the square were where the hanger bracket wanted to be, so I drilled them out as seen on the frame below
DSCF1671.JPG

All 24 parts for the springs, hangers and axle box's in place
DSCF1672.JPG

As I mentioned before you have three footplate options, these two photos show the two a supplied as etches, narrow footplate with a step at the front end and wide footplate, the third option is narrow parallel footplate, that's the one I've gone for so you'll see that later
DSCF1673.JPG
DSCF1675.JPG

The inner footplate as supplied
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The inner footplate as modified so I can get the soldering iron inside
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The inner tank as supplied
DSCF1669.JPG

This is where the madness that's OzzyO takes over, at first I was going to do this but when I came to do the four vertical cuts I ended up cutting out the middle bar as well
DSCF1676.JPG

So this is what I was left with
DSCF1678.JPG

Now don't go sending for the men in white coats just yet, the reason that I have done all this cutting out is so I can get in to the solder the tank overlays on.

OzzyO.
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#602 Mike

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 18:28

Made absolute sense to me.
Mike

#603 3 link

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 19:56

Hi Ozzyo,

Well thanks for listerning to my tales of woe on the phone last night, like you said it's hard to explain without see the problem in front of you :blink: .
Here's a photo of my mini mill and with a minimum speed of 5,000 rpm :O I did not think I could use it on white metal, but thanks to you matey and with using white spirit as a lubricant it's done the job.

P1060371-1.JPG

The problem was the white metal cast axle boxes, the grooves were far to narrow to run in the etched brass axle guides. So with Ozzy's help I have managed to open them up, ignore the cruel close up as once I have tidied them up with a file they will work just fine :senile: .

P1060375-1.JPG

ATB,

Martyn.

Edited by 3 link, 13 March 2012 - 15:46 .

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#604 ozzyo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 23:41

Hello Martyn,

glad to have helped, I was a bit under the weather when you phoned on Sun. night, England V. France and we won, god knows what sort of state I would have been in if we had lost?

5,000 r.p.m. for the bottom speed is a bit fast to me, so what is the top speed?
I've just had a look at my mill and its bottom speed is 315 r.p.m. (and I still think that's fast) and the top speed 1600 r.p.m.

When you get a fly cutter set at about 30mm dia. whizzing around you would know what I mean, this is for when I'm cutting the base for chimneys and domes for my scratch build jobs, I would like to have a bottom speed of about 70 or 80 r.p.m. for this. But I just have to work with the M/Cs speeds.

But in my other life I did have have a bigger milling M/C to play with.

7.5h.p motor for the drive and a 1.5h.p motor for the feeds. But it would cut to 0.0005" so that's what I had to do and was expected to do.

Sorry for going off track a bit, M.R.C. night and all that,

OzzyO.

#605 ozzyo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 23:56

Hi Ozzyo,


The problem was the white metal cast axle boxes, the grooves were far to narrow to run in the etched brass axle guides. So with Ozzy's help I have managed to open them up, ignore the cruel close up as once I had tidied them up with a file they work just fine :senile: .
P1060375-1.JPG
ATB,
Martyn.


Sorry Martyn,

my inspectors would not have passed that job. :D :D .

One or two of these at Telford ? :drinks:

OzzyO..

#606 ozzyo

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 00:27

Made absolute sense to me.
Mike


Sounds like your as mad as me,

OzzyO..

#607 3 link

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:32

Sorry Martyn,

my inspectors would not have passed that job. :D :D .



OzzyO..


Oi,

I did say they still needed tiding up with a file : -

" So with Ozzy's help I have managed to open them up, ignore the cruel close up as once I have tidied them up with a file they will work just fine :senile: ."

ATB, Martyn.

Edited by 3 link, 13 March 2012 - 15:49 .


#608 3 link

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 16:11

Hello Martyn,

glad to have helped, I was a bit under the weather when you phoned on Sun. night, England V. France and we won, god knows what sort of state I would have been in if we had lost?

5,000 r.p.m. for the bottom speed is a bit fast to me, so what is the top speed?
I've just had a look at my mill and its bottom speed is 315 r.p.m. (and I still think that's fast) and the top speed 1600 r.p.m

OzzyO.


Hello Matey,

I do not know how to put a link on here but if you go to Proxxon MF70, you will see the speed goes from 5,000 rpm to 20,000 rpm. :O .

ATB, Martyn.

Edited by 3 link, 13 March 2012 - 16:12 .


#609 ozzyo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:32

Hello all,

just a quick up date today,

the front drag box, the L/H side is roughly formed to the shape the the manufacturer intended, and on the R/H side how I'm going to fit it
DSCF1680.JPG

The same as above, but from above. You have to fit a 8BA nut above the small hole in the apex of the Vee for the fixing point of the front of the tender and also to work as the draw bar fixing
DSCF1681.JPG

The front drag box in place along with the intermediate buffer body's ( 4mm L.M.S. buffer body's with the square base turned off). I have to say that this is one of the best draw bar set ups that I have seen on a tender. The down side is that you have to fit the front and rear buffer planks from separate etches rather than fold down parts of the inner footplate
DSCF1682.JPG

The same as above but with the front footsteps up-stands in place
DSCF1683.JPG

The rear buffer plank in place along with the rear step up-stands, as you can see I have added some support to the rear of the up-stands. When I did a test fit of the outer frames it showed that there would be no movement of the buffers, so I ended up cutting the ends off the buffer bodies castings (not shown in this photo)
DSCF1684.JPG

OzzyO.
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#610 ozzyo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:05

Hello all,

just a quick up date on the tender build.

As I mentioned in my last post that I was going to cut the tails off the buffer bodies, there is still not a lot of room to get the nut on and have a decent amount of movement, so it looks like I'll have to cross drill the buffers and pin them
DSCF1685.JPG

The outer frames in place along with the first of the footplate overlays
DSCF1687.JPG
DSCF1688.JPG

All three overlays in place, jumping ahead a bit before I fitted the inner tank to the footplate I cut the tags off just to make it a bit easier to solder it to the footplate
DSCF1689.JPG

The front of the tank overlay as supplied
DSCF1690.JPG

The loco that I'm doing had the drop to the front of the tank top, to do this you have two cutting jigs that you fasten to the tank overlay
DSCF1691.JPG

The excess cut out but with a bit of tiding up to do
DSCF1692.JPG

The beading soldered in place still some cleaning up to do, I'm hoping the the grit-blaster will take off the excess solder that I can't remove
DSCF1694.JPG

The flare formed on to the overlay
DSCF1693.JPG

OzzyO.

Edited by ozzyo, 19 March 2012 - 10:50 .

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#611 ozzyo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 00:14

Hello all,

this post may go on a bit, for that I'm sorry. Some of this may be down to the kit (it's the first one of these that I have built), or me!
Anyway on to the build,
The tank and tank sides on the footplate and frames, I think that this is where the fun starts?
DSCF1695.JPG

Coal raves fitted on both sides
DSCF1696.JPG

Using the cut dome to position the rear coal plate
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The rear coal plate from the inside
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The front coal plates in position, this is when something started to look wrong
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The fire iron rack folded up and in place
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But like a ship in full sail, I kept on, the iceberg would miss us, no it would not, it would come back and bite me until it was sorted out.
DSCF1709.JPG

When I had to start removing the punched out rivets that I had done, this shown up that the tank side were over hanging the tank fronts by different amounts. This also put the coal raves in the wrong position, when you looked at them across the tender. Maybe I should have measured (or checked them) the hand rail holes from the front edge of the tank sides better? All will come out better and look the part, I hope.

OzzyO.
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#612 ozzyo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:48

Hello all,

two posts in one day, what's happening to me?

While all the above was been sorted out I was also working on the toolbox's , the top one with the rivets embosed
DSCF1702.JPG

The following is the sequence that I used for folding up the box's
DSCF1704.JPG
DSCF1705.JPG
DSCF1706.JPG
DSCF1707.JPG

Then it was onto the detail parts, these are the lock tabs, after I had lost three of them to the black hole I thought bu99er this and just fitted the handles and lids. I will post a photo of the box's later
DSCF1708.JPG

I also decided that it was about time that I checked the fit of the frames to the body. The result was that the frames wouldn't fit, you can see in the photo the pencil lines where the frames are catching on the fixing bracket. So it was out with the Dremel and slitting disc, the left and right hand straight bits were cut off this bracket, but the pyramid bit had supports going to the body, so the clearance had to be cut out on the frames. I'm still not satisfied with the fit of the frames to the body, so this will be getting looked at soon
DSCF1710.JPG

Now that I've got the coal raves sorted out it's onto the detail parts. The first of these is the tank filler the parts for this are shown in this photo
DSCF1711.JPG

The first three parts assembled. As you can see the base is longer than the sides
DSCF1712.JPG

The base after modification, as you can see the base is now in line with the sides and a cut out for the back between the sides
DSCF1714.JPG

The top now in place
DSCF1715.JPG

The filler lid now in place. If I do another one I will use 0.5mm wire for the handle rather than 0.7mm
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The filler rear in place, as you can see I have drilled some holes in the front and rear of the filler base
DSCF1717.JPG

The filler rear from above,all that has to be done now is to fit it to the tank body and hope that it does not fall to bits
DSCF1718.JPG

OzzyO.
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#613 Kenton

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 14:38

after I had lost three of them to the black hole


Don't you just love this when there are no spares supplied and comparatively acres of scrap fret on which they could have easily been provided?
Interested to watch this come together, warts and all. Just reassuring it is not all plain sailing, even for you.

#614 ozzyo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 15:29

Don't you just love this when there are no spares supplied and comparatively acres of scrap fret on which they could have easily been provided?
Interested to watch this come together, warts and all. Just reassuring it is not all plain sailing, even for you.


Hello Kenton,

that was the point there were four of them and I only needed two. Yes I do make fobars but I think that it's right to show them up as a warning to other builders, sometimes we just expect that much out of a kit we don't check the fit of the parts.

At the end of the day the most important thing is that the finish job should look like the prototype.

OzzyO.
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#615 Kenton

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 16:03

4 - 3 (lost) = 1 not twotoo few ;)

like, as in not too dissimilar, is good enough for me. But you are so right in the expectation that we expect the kit designer to get it right and to test build/have it test built to iron out the parts that do not fit. It is so so annoying, and a waste of time, to solder something up only to find that the part doesn't fit. So often this only comes to light later in the build when you try to fit another part.
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#616 N15class

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 19:15

4 - 3 (lost) = 1 not twotoo few ;)

like, as in not too dissimilar, is good enough for me. But you are so right in the expectation that we expect the kit designer to get it right and to test build/have it test built to iron out the parts that do not fit. It is so so annoying, and a waste of time, to solder something up only to find that the part doesn't fit. So often this only comes to light later in the build when you try to fit another part.

4 - 3 (lost) = 1 not twotoo few ;)

like, as in not too dissimilar, is good enough for me. But you are so right in the expectation that we expect the kit designer to get it right and to test build/have it test built to iron out the parts that do not fit. It is so so annoying, and a waste of time, to solder something up only to find that the part doesn't fit. So often this only comes to light later in the build when you try to fit another part.



But surely as the builders of kits it is also upto us to make sure the parts and associated parts all fit together before soldering. as ech componant my not form and fold the same as when some one else assembled the same thing. There are only a very few shake the box and out comes a loco.

Can we all afford them anyway.

#617 ozzyo

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:48

Hello all,

just a quick up date today.

Getting the tank top rear ready for the tank filler, the two large holes are so I can get the solder to the filler bottom, you can also see two lines to help position the filler
DSCF1719.JPG

The tank filler now in place
DSCF1720.JPG

The front footplate folded up, before this was fixed in place I fixed some brass L angle over the gaps under the footplate and sides
DSCF1721.JPG

The same from above, as you can see I've nibbled out four gaps in the footplate
DSCF1722.JPG

When I fitted it to the lower footplate it was approx. 3mm shy of the footplate edge. As you get two front footplate's the fold up one and a flat one. So I decided to fit the flat one on top of the fold up one, this brought the front footplate edge in line with the lower footplate. This left the sides about 3mm short of the footplate, so it was out with the 3mm L angle brass to fill in the gaps. In this photo it still has to be cleaned up
DSCF1723.JPG

The same as above but from above. There are still some gaps to be filled and the top footplate edges to be filed back to the tank sides
DSCF1724.JPG

OzzyO.
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#618 Sandy Harper

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 18:06

Hi Matey

Thought you might like to see David Andrews version of the 3000gal tender. This was the original supplied with the Bulldog, that I recently built with a 3500gal version, but my friend wanted this tender to go behind a 22XX that has been towing a ROD. Big improvement in my opinion!
Sandy

DSCN5900.JPG

DSCN5905.JPG
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#619 N15class

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 18:10

Very well finished tender, it sits well with the 22xx.

#620 richbrummitt

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:01

Woo hoo. I'm up to date with this thread (it's taken me weeks to read it all). Hugely inspirational. As a 2mm modeller I find the level of detail hugely appealing. I think it disappointing to look at 7mm scale models with very little detail fine detail on - it is really nice to see someone trying to get as much as possible on there! Good work. I will now be continuing to follow updates.

#621 ozzyo

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:07

Hello all,

nice looking tender there Sandy, I see it's got the rivets for the handrail on the coal raves that are missing from the Scorpio one.

Hello richbrummitt, welcome on board.

Back onto the build,
the tank filler before gritblasting
DSCF1720.JPG

and after a quick grit blast, as you can see it's taken off a lot of the excess solder
DSCF1726.JPG

The toolbox's made up, you get three types in the kit, this sort, flat topped and half round
DSCF1725.JPG

Rivets removed under the toolbox's and the fire iron stand fitted. On the water gauge it looks like the base had been casted 90deg. out and would move the tool box to far forwards, so it had to come off. The handrails have been fitted, the horizontal handrail supports look like they will foul the toolbox's. For setting the horizontal handrails I used a strip of 1/16" brass about 1/4" wide
DSCF1728.JPG

And so they did
DSCF1729.JPG

Before I fitted the toolbox's I drilled three 3mm holes under the toolbox's, I don't think that it's good to have an enclosed space that can't be washed out
DSCF1731.JPG

The mod. to the toolbox's
DSCF1730.JPG

Now on to the water cocks, this is where a problem arose in that the handles have to fit onto a spigot of 1.3mm dia. so if you drill a bit to deep, well you can see what happens! It would have been better if the handles had had a locating pin cast on them
DSCF1732.JPG

So it was into one of my numerous spares box's and two new handles were fixed in place. I must do something about the gap at the front
DSCF1733.JPG

The front of the tender just about finished. Just the water and hand brake stantions, brackets and handles to add, I think?
DSCF1734.JPG

OzzyO.

PS. I would like all to thank all the people that have viewed this thread, I never thought that it would have had over 37,000 hits when I started it.
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#622 Adrian

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:39

OzzyO. PS. I would like all to thank all the people that have viewed this thread, I never thought that it would have had over 37,000 hits when I started it.

Actually there's only two of us viewing the thread, we just keep clicking it thousands of times hoping for an update!!
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#623 ozzyo

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 19:41

Actually there's only two of us viewing the thread, we just keep clicking it thousands of times hoping for an update!!


That I could believe,

OzzyO.
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#624 steve fay

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 15:49

That I could believe,

OzzyO.


Make that three!!

#625 Sandy Harper

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 17:10

And from number 4! Thanks for the tip on flare bending, I'll give it a try
Sandy







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