buffalo Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Over on my blog I've been building a Johnson 1P for use on a (still in design) S&DJR layout. The idea is to represent 58047 and to couple it with one of the driving trailers used on the Wells branch. This thread, started by Blandford1969, was a spinoff from the blog and has provided some more views of these relatively rarely photographed trains. As that thread started to veer towards the coaches, I thought it best to start a new one with a more appropriate title in order to pose some questions about these coaches. They are necessarily rather basic questions as I know next to nothing about LMS coaches. In The Somerset & Dorset Files, No 4, there is a photo of 58047 with driving trailer M24456. From information provided by Blandford1969 and, now that I have a copy, Jenkins & Essery, An Illustrated History of LMS Coaches, 1923-1957, this is a 1949 build to diagram D2122. The coach in the first photo of this post is similar and may even be the same. Another example appears in a photo of a mixed train on p94 of Stephen Austin's Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway, a View from the Past. Getting to the point, Comet do both a D1964 brake third (M58) and a driving end (EM5). From what I can see, there are no obvious differences (3/16" on the width is, I think, non-obvious) between a D1964 and a D2122 other than the driving end, the absence of duckets and a few more pipes and wires at the ends. This leads me to think I can make a good representation of the trailer with only minimal modification from Comet parts. So, am I right? Are there any other differences I've missed? Is there another way to tackle this? Thanks in anticipation, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSlack Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 This is an excellent, high-detail question that might benefit from being addressed to the Coaches Steward of the Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust for a definitive answer, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thanks for that suggestion, and for giving me something to reply to. Otherwise I was going to have to reply to my own question Since the OP, I've discovered by a closer scrutiny of the Jenkinson & Essery volume that the D1964 is not a good starting point. Unusually, it was provided with two pairs of double doors at the van end and so the Comet sides would need significant alteration to match the more normal LMS pattern of double door, window, single door. As I've not built a Comet coach, though am happy working with brass in general, I've no idea how easy such a modification might be. Another possibility would be to start with a Comet D1735 and modify it to a D1790, just as was done with the prototype. Unfortunately, I don't know whether this Period 2 type was ever used on the S&D or, if so, when. Maybe another question for the Steward? In the meantime, can anyone suggest a suitable kit or RTR model of a period 3 brake third suitable for modifying into a D2122? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I was going to point out the single door at the driving trailer end, this design being maintained for motor-fotted driving trailers, but you have already spotted it. I etched the Period II driving trailer as a short-run for my regulars. Without looking through Ivo Peters albums I cannot say if the Period II coaches ran on the S&DJR. Maybe Bill Bedford has done CAD artwork for the D2122.....worth a try PM-ing him. Modifying the Comet sides would be difficult as the luggage doors were further away from the compartments on the diagram with a single guards door than where two pairs of doors were fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks for the reminder about Bill Bedford, Larry. Somewhere I have a list of his coach etchings, but it may still be worth contacting him to see what he has. Now, the saga continues. Today I received a copy of the Middleton Press book on the Burnham to Evercreech Junction line. Until a couple of days ago I hadn't known this book existed. So, when I discovered it, I thought I'd get a copy to add to my other S&D literature, and there was always a chance there might be a photo or two of the push-pull trains. It turns out to be a real goldmine as it has sections on both the Bridgwater and Wells branches on which they were used, and there are photos of all manner of driving trailers of different dates. After browsing through this book at lunchtime, it now looks like I can continue the theme of answering my own questions. The book includes a photo of 58046 with a trailer that may be the same as, or a close relative of, the one that I had identified as M24456. Unfortunately, the number is even less readable than the one in the other photo. However, since my original tentative identification, I've been reading and looking at the photos in Jenkinson & Essery, and like to think I know a little bit more about LMS coaches than I did a week ago. So, whilst trying to read the number in the photo in the Middleton Press book I suddenly realised that I'd been suffering from a failure to see the wood for the trees. I'd thought the coach was 24456, looked the number up and read that it was a period 3 coach. My flash of insight was to realise that in both this and the S&D Files photo, the windows were not flush with the sides so it is presumably a period 2 design. In which case it cannot be 24456, but is probably some other 244xx, maybe 24466. So, it does now look like I can use a Comet M25 kit of a D1735 and convert it to a driving trailer Nick ps don't think you've heard the last from me on this topic, though, there are all those weird and wonderful other trailer types shown in the Middleton Press book, and I'll want to find out more about them eventually... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Dragging this thread up from the distant past - I know the Hornby D1907 can be converted to the P111 D1856 driving trailer. However, I am interested in attempting a D2122 too - but don't think I agree with the comment of it being a difficult alteration from a D1964. If I'm not mistaken, the double doors are in the same place, & the single door is in the same place as half the double doors at the end. So couldn't the extra door hinge line just be filled in? Or would the window be in the left hand door of the pair on both sides on the D1964 etch? This also presumes the double doors were twice the width of a single? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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