Jamiel Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 To Echo Great Western's question, is there anywhere on the web, a book, or indeed does anyone here knows the time period for these vehicles operated in these liveries? And please forgive my ignorance but what were 'Brake Force Runners'? I would presume coaches with test equipment to measure the breaking power of locomotives, but I may be very wrong. Would they be suitable to be run with the RTC 'raspberry ripple' coaches and locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 what were 'Brake Force Runners'? I would presume coaches with test equipment to measure the breaking power of locomotives, but I may be very wrong. They were simply coaches included in the formation to improve the brake force of the train, no test equipment carried, on loco hauled trains there are speed limits that apply to very short trains because of the lower brake force available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 no test equipment? what none? must be more to it than that. otherwise youd just add another passenger carrying coach if you wanted to increase the brake force. more bums on seats too if you want a simple analogy - i presume passengers werent allowed in these BFR coaches...... shorter formations do have lower BF but then why increase your formation just to increase the BF? surely you run the formation you want to run but at lower top speeds. has anybody got some facts about these coaches as id like to know more about their raison detre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 shorter formations do have lower BF but then why increase your formation just to increase the BF? surely you run the formation you want to run but at lower top speeds. has anybody got some facts about these coaches as id like to know more about their raison detre. It's exactly as Royal Oak stated. Running it at lower speeds is an option if that fits in with the booked speeds, and on a passenger train you can indeed add more ordinary vehicles if you need it to run faster. However, test trains are different. If you're testing the behaviour of a loco or vehicle at 100mph then you need the train to run at 100mph. In that case you need more brake force than a couple of laboratory coaches can provide so you hang BFRs on the back until the sums add up. The other use of BFRs was to comply with the 'last 3 fitted' rule where piped vehicles were being conveyed, I have a feeling that at least one of the test vehicles (SGT optical car ? don't quote me on that) was piped only so needed fitted vehicles behind it. Some movements I was involved with included condemmed DMU and AC electric stock (85s ?) from Cricklewood (?) to MC Metals in the early 90s. Each rake had a very long air brake pipe attached to the hauling loco, then passing through the smashed windscreen of the first dead one, then via the windscreens of the remaining dead locos until it got to the back, where three fully serviceable Mk2s were attached to comply with the need for the last three vehicles to be brake fitted.They ran at about 45mph from memory (when not sitting in loops and sidings waiting for axleboxes to cool down). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The internal user wagons (code 38-160U) were waiting for me when I returned from a trip to Maidstone. They look very nice, though not really a massive difference from non internal user wagons. They will make nice stock for 'Grove street' along with the condemned vans to give that layout a more industrial 'off the beaten mainline' feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
97403_Ixion Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi all, having just had some time spare, I took photos of the Internal User Vans to which Jenny Emily refers. Details are: Bachmann Part Number 38-160U 'Set of Internal User Vent Vans (Weathered)' Wagons are: 042130, 041478, 096047 I like Jenny's idea about mixing them with the Condemned Vans set, also by Modelzone Photos were taken quickly, so hope you like them! Cheers, Ixion. 38_160U_3_Vans 38_160U_042130_Left_Van 38_160U_042130_Left_Van_Close_Up 38_160U_041478_Middle_Van 38_160U_041478_Middle_Van_Close_Up 38_160U_096047_Right_Van 38_160U_096047_Right_Van_Close_Up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 no test equipment? what none? must be more to it than that. No, thats it. otherwise youd just add another passenger carrying coach if you wanted to increase the brake force. more bums on seats too if you want a simple analogy - i presume passengers werent allowed in these BFR coaches...... Why would they carry passengers, they are only needed on test trains or stock moves. shorter formations do have lower BF but then why increase your formation just to increase the BF? surely you run the formation you want to run but at lower top speeds.Try it on the East Coast/ West Coast/ Great Western mainlines and let me know how it goes on, the test trains have to get out of the way of service trains/ get to where they are needed as quickly as possible, they cant afford to waste time dawdling along at 60mph. has anybody got some facts about these coaches as id like to know more about their raison detre. I have given you the facts, their raison detre was to increase the available brake force on short trains to allow them to run at the maximum speed possible, if you are not happy use google. Try taking a light loco(s) (say a 50) up to its maximum of 100mph and see how long it takes to stop (I can guarantee it will be way past that red signal), that is why a light loco(s) also has limits on its maximum speed/ it will also be limited to below the line speed (typically 20mph below, so line speed 100mph, max light loco speed 80mph), it will vary for the type of loco and also the line speed prevailant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 BTW an unsold 00 RTC Class 24 appeared in the cabinet at the Holborn store on Monday. As l had one I tipped my mate off who duly bought it (to keep, not sell on I hasten to add!). Just shows that its worth keeping a lookout though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 24, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2012 i picked up the NSE 03 from the birmingham store last week which was duly dispatched to bryan at howes for fitting up with a lok-sound micro, however as he started to dismantle it it was discovered that the running plate mounted air tanks are glued in place which meant he couldn't get to the cab off to fit the speaker without cutting or breaking any of the tabs off, because of this bryan said he won't fit up any air tank fitted 03s for customers due to the fragility of them, i have told him to give it a go anyway as i dont mind him cutting bits about a bit! once its done i'll post a vid in the dcc sound section Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Photos were taken quickly, so hope you like them! Cheers, Ixion. Thanks for the photos. They convinced me to purchase the wagons from the MZ Amazon page (via the RMWeb Amazon store link) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 How many here put in an order for the Modelzone yellow Mk1 engineers tool van, Swansea Landore allocated model? I havent heard anything since placing my order last November and dont have a clue if the model is imminent, delayed or if its been canned. Maybe I am not allowing enough time for it to hit the shops but we are on month 5 now. No emails from MZ. anyone got any info? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 BTW an unsold 00 RTC Class 24 appeared in the cabinet at the Holborn store on Monday. As l had one I tipped my mate off who duly bought it (to keep, not sell on I hasten to add!). Just shows that its worth keeping a lookout though. That's pretty much how I acquired my lab 14, though from the Metro Centre branch, long after the Ebay gougers had been escalating the prices sky high. It is suspected that (due to the Modelzone website showing it as 'out of stock online') that at least one lab 23 is out there in this way, though I haven't found it yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2012 The Kent Coast signal box has surfaced, a picture has appeared on the Model Rail Facebook page, looks good: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/306241_10150733931493207_176420418206_9799783_1106099074_n.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb860 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 How many here put in an order for the Modelzone yellow Mk1 engineers tool van, Swansea Landore allocated model? I havent heard anything since placing my order last November and dont have a clue if the model is imminent, delayed or if its been canned. Maybe I am not allowing enough time for it to hit the shops but we are on month 5 now. No emails from MZ. anyone got any info? Nothing unusual in that. Just be patient, It will arrive once it has been manufactured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted May 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 3, 2012 The Kent Coast signal box has surfaced, a picture has appeared on the Model Rail Facebook page, looks good: https://fbcdn-sphoto...106099074_n.jpg Ah, that's what the Signal Box charged my card for.....maybe turn up in a couple of days.....it's a long way from Rochester to the coast Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinkyme Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Yes Signal box is out in the stores, well 4 were in Southampton branch today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Yes Signal box is out in the stores, well 4 were in Southampton branch today And do The Signal Box have the signal box as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted May 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 3, 2012 And do The Signal Box have the signal box as well? They sure did earlier this week when they posted mine Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I have a feeling that at least one of the test vehicles (SGT optical car ? don't quote me on that) was piped only so needed fitted vehicles behind it. I think the SGT would have been braked. You are probably thinking of the centre van of the Tribology Train which was braked for testing purposes but not for train stopping purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 They sure did earlier this week when they posted mine Ah, I wasn't sure if you were talking about the signal box or The Signal Box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 The Pack of 3 BSC slope sided mineral wagons have arrived according to the Modelzone and Signal Box websites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The Pack of 3 BSC slope sided mineral wagons have arrived according to the Modelzone and Signal Box websites. Hi Were these wagons internal user or could they be seen on BR in traffic? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Were these wagons internal user or could they be seen on BR in traffic? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bscotippler Used on the mainline for around 40 years, from Yorkshire and possibly Midlands collieries to Corby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://paulbartlett....com/bscotippler Used on the mainline for around 40 years, from Yorkshire and possibly Midlands collieries to Corby. Often said they were ore wagons but they weren't heavy enough for that and only ever used for supplies of coking coal for Corby. Trains usually arrived at Corby from Toton but would originate at any number of collieries in Notts, Derbys and S.Yorks - Dinnington and Manton were two which spring to mind. After Corby closed, there were lines of them standing in the former works reception sidings for several months. until they were cleared out over a week or so. Many of them ended up being stored around the area, Wellingborough, Leicester Bell Lane and Toton all having a line of them. They were common in Wellingborough yard as the pics show but I've no idea why. They were rarely if ever loaded in S.Wales pits so why they should be so common South of Corby I can't say. The usual workings were Toton - Lloyds Sidings from where they were worked into the works reception sidings by the resident 08 and thence to the Deene Coke ovens by the works EE 0-6-0 DH fleet. Empties were usually shipped out of the works to Corby sidings and back to Toton from there. Train engines were pairs of 20s nine times out of ten, the other 10% were classes 25 x 2, 44, 45 or 47. In steam days Lloyds had no BR pilot so the train engines worked their own trains from Lloyds into the works reception sidings which involving a 1 in 30 climb from a standing start out of Lloyds with an 8F, must have been quite a sight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 They were common in Wellingborough yard as the pics show but I've no idea why. They were rarely if ever loaded in S.Wales pits so why they should be so common South of Corby I can't say. Is it possible that they were sometimes routed down to Wellingborough then back north, rather than direct? Or maybe they went there for repairs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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