RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hello Folks, Just a quick one.... Did the NCB ever posess brake vans? If so, what type? If possible, info about South Wales would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Did the NCB ever posess brake vans? If so, what type? Ian, The NCB did operate brake vans on some of it's systems, most notably the Wemyss system in Scotland, where they had a couple of ex Midland Railway brakes amongst others. . They also used brake vans on the Littleton Colliery branch in Staffs. . I've no doubt there were others . Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The NCB Ashington system had a small fleet at the end of which several are preserved! Also NCB at Westoe had a van along with Burradon. British Steel also had two at Scunthorpe of which one is preserved. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 British Steel also had two at Scunthorpe of which one is preserved. Is that one of the ore branch ones?! Where is that preserved?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Is that one of the ore branch ones?! Where is that preserved?! It was a BR standard and was orriginally at Cottesmore but I understand it is now on the Nene Valley Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It must be one from the NLLR ore workings - I can't see why they'd need ones otherwise. Need to follow it up though - thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2011 Paul Bartlett's collection of photos from Littleton Colliery include a few shots of the ex-LMS 'van there: http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/c1943776.html There was an ex-SR van at Littleton; think Chasewater railway have one in NCB livery - not sure if it's the same one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2011 There are a few NCB brakevans in my Ashington colection on fotopic: http://davesnorthumb...c1747805_1.html It might also be worth having a look at Ernies Railways of Wales on fotopic at: http://railwaysofwales.fotopic.net/ , though I haven't looked at every image. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I think that anywhere that the NCB had running powers over BR lines the regulations demanded the use of a brake van. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Lambton58 Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2011 I think that anywhere that the NCB had running powers over BR lines the regulations demanded the use of a brake van. They definitely had them on the Lambton system and there's one preserved on the Tanfield Railway Ralph Lambton 58 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Ian, The NCB did operate brake vans on some of it's systems, most notably the Wemyss system in Scotland, where they had a couple of ex Midland Railway brakes amongst others. . They also used brake vans on the Littleton Colliery branch in Staffs. . I've no doubt there were others . Brian Several of the Littleton Colliery van in this collection, we travelled in it when we were not in the cab. http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/c1943776.html But there were other examples. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 A couple of odd ones were to be seen in the East Kent coalfield, working from Sheperdswell exchange sidings to Tilmanstone. They were ex-GWR fitted 'Toads' with footboards removed, presumably because of clearances in Golgotha tunnel- I'm not sure whether they were used as brakes at the end of trains, or as 'brake-force' vehicles at the train head, as the photos I've seen show them standing in the exchange sidings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The NCB had a brakevan at Comrie Colliery which got used a lot. Its use wasn't consistent as when I went it wasn't used, but following a runaway with a hired 08 diesel it then got used regularly on the line down to Oakley yard including with No.19 the Hunslet austerity painted yellow and blue. I have seen Jospeh at Bold Colliery shunting a BR van off a rake of 16 tonners prior to taking them up the yard. There was a blue livered brake van at Walkden workshops used by the P.way gang. Also there was an LMS brakevan at Avenue Carbonisation Plant at Wingerworth near Chesterfield. I dont know why they had it it wasnt used for working traffic. This van was preserved and is now at Rowsley so far as I know in the ownership of the Heritage Shunters Trust. There was a GWR toad at Maesteg used for attending to derailments. Also there was the Dudley Pilot on the Burradon system and there is footage of this operation on a couple of Industrial Railway DVDs. The Cannock Wood colliery brakevan was placed immediately behind the loco on trips down to the exchange sidings at Hednesford there are photos of the van in use with preserved loco and Hornby model Wimblebury on this line. The van went to Littleton after Cannock Wood closed. Another operation was between Chanters Colliery and Gibfield Colliery at Atherton in Lancashire. This was to get coal for washing to Gibfield and return with empties, austerity loco Humphrey was a regular on this work. So the list is:- Lambton, Cannock Wood, Walkden (pway/derailments) Chanters/Gibfield Comrie, Westoe/ Boldon Littleton Avenue (purpose unknown) Weymss Maesteg (derailments) Ashington "I think that anywhere that the NCB had running powers over BR lines the regulations demanded the use of a brake van. " This comment isn't correct as the NCB at Whitehaven crossed BR to William Pit at the end of Bransty Station without a van and Ackton Hall colliery, Featherstone took trains over BR to Snydale Colliery without a van, admittedly distances were short . Hope this helps 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted March 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2011 A couple of odd ones were to be seen in the East Kent coalfield, working from Sheperdswell exchange sidings to Tilmanstone. They were ex-GWR fitted 'Toads' with footboards removed, presumably because of clearances in Golgotha tunnel- I'm not sure whether they were used as brakes at the end of trains, or as 'brake-force' vehicles at the train head, as the photos I've seen show them standing in the exchange sidings. Aaah, the Tilmo Toads!! Does anyone have a photo of the beasties? Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway have a gala in September, and I would like to paint our toad into NCB colours, to match the occasion. Regards, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ailg8048 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 And I thought you were going to fit double glazing and make it an MSC Toad http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/images/RR_NWM_MSC%20Toad%20GRCW.jpg Back onto the NCB and Chasewater have a littleton one - http://www.aligrieve.fotopic.net/p46078184.html AliG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Back onto the NCB and Chasewater have a littleton one - http://www.aligrieve.fotopic.net/p46078184.html AliG That is a Southern Railway design brake van (the MoD had a number of similar vans). And having typed that, I notice that Chasewater has an MoD van http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6249 - no photo though. Kits available in 4 and 7mm scale. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted March 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2011 And I thought you were going to fit double glazing and make it an MSC Toad http://glostransport...Toad%20GRCW.jpg Back onto the NCB and Chasewater have a littleton one - http://www.aligrieve.../p46078184.html AliG You will need to speak to our gala manager.......... Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baldrick25 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Here is the Littleton colliery - now at Chasewater Light Railway - in service June 2009 there. I would have to bow to others superior knowledge of its authenticity.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Here is the Littleton colliery - now at Chasewater Light Railway - in service June 2009 there. I would have to bow to others superior knowledge of its authenticity.. It would be nice if you submitted one of these for inclusion on the Railway register - http://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/surveystatus.asp Far superior to most of the photographs they use! Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS239 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 A couple of odd ones were to be seen in the East Kent coalfield, working from Sheperdswell exchange sidings to Tilmanstone. They were ex-GWR fitted 'Toads' with footboards removed, presumably because of clearances in Golgotha tunnel- I'm not sure whether they were used as brakes at the end of trains, or as 'brake-force' vehicles at the train head, as the photos I've seen show them standing in the exchange sidings. I think these were for use as 'fitted head' on the coal trains,but they were B.R. NOT N.C.B.,so although interesting,not the subject of this topic..and removal of the footboards wasn't anything to do with Golgotha Tunnel,if you've ever walked through it you'll know that there's plenty of clearance.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have seen shots of footboard-free TOADs elsewhere - always the diagram (AA21) with cylinders; any other diagram with VB was piped only and therefore useless as fitted head. First wagon I converted (with footboards), before finding out that they were all officially out of use by 1969. I read somewhere that some were used over short distances for a short time after general withdrawal, so I'm working on the assumption that this is true... But yes, BR they were. This MoD brake: 4mm kit available? Where? Or is that the basic SR 25 ton brake? (In which case, back to the cutting board...) My memories of the Maesteg system are (sadly) fading even as we speak, but I'm sure I would have noticed a Brake van on the end of those boring COAL 16s, nor do I recall seeing one at the Forge sidings - so the TOAD must have been stored at one of the three collieries in the Llynfi Valley: St John's in Maesteg (known locally as Cwmdu, after an older, long closed colliery nearby), Coegnant in Nantyffyllon, and Caerau (in... Caerau!). The MSC van at Gloucester has been repainted since its last use, with (IIRC) the electricians at Ellesmere Port; it was, again IIRC, brown before that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludger Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The NCB had a brakevan at Comrie Colliery which got used a lot. Its use wasn't consistent as when I went it wasn't used, but following a runaway with a hired 08 diesel it then got used regularly on the line down to Oakley yard including with No.19 the Hunslet austerity painted yellow and blue. I have seen Jospeh at Bold Colliery shunting a BR van off a rake of 16 tonners prior to taking them up the yard. There was a blue livered brake van at Walkden workshops used by the P.way gang. Also there was an LMS brakevan at Avenue Carbonisation Plant at Wingerworth near Chesterfield. I dont know why they had it it wasnt used for working traffic. This van was preserved and is now at Rowsley so far as I know in the ownership of the Heritage Shunters Trust. There was a GWR toad at Maesteg used for attending to derailments. Also there was the Dudley Pilot on the Burradon system and there is footage of this operation on a couple of Industrial Railway DVDs. The Cannock Wood colliery brakevan was placed immediately behind the loco on trips down to the exchange sidings at Hednesford there are photos of the van in use with preserved loco and Hornby model Wimblebury on this line. The van went to Littleton after Cannock Wood closed. Another operation was between Chanters Colliery and Gibfield Colliery at Atherton in Lancashire. This was to get coal for washing to Gibfield and return with empties, austerity loco Humphrey was a regular on this work. So the list is:- Lambton, Cannock Wood, Walkden (pway/derailments) Chanters/Gibfield Comrie, Westoe/ Boldon Littleton Avenue (purpose unknown) Weymss Maesteg (derailments) Ashington "I think that anywhere that the NCB had running powers over BR lines the regulations demanded the use of a brake van. " This comment isn't correct as the NCB at Whitehaven crossed BR to William Pit at the end of Bransty Station without a van and Ackton Hall colliery, Featherstone took trains over BR to Snydale Colliery without a van, admittedly distances were short . Hope this helps A couple more locations to add to the list, Bates Colliery at Blyth had a couple and there was also one at Broomhill. Trev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 My memories of the Maesteg system are (sadly) fading even as we speak, but I'm sure I would have noticed a Brake van on the end of those boring COAL 16s, nor do I recall seeing one at the Forge sidings - so the TOAD must have been stored at one of the three collieries in the Llynfi Valley: St John's in Maesteg (known locally as Cwmdu, after an older, long closed colliery nearby), Coegnant in Nantyffyllon, and Caerau (in... Caerau!). In the days when the preserved 8750 pannier, 9642, was kept at Maesteg, it ran with a 'Toad' converted to a sort of observation coach set-up, could this have been the vehicle, or another 'toad' again ?. On the subject of 'Toads' - ADW35377 was purchased by Allied Steel & Wire (ASW) at Tremorfa and fitted with lighting, a compressor, jacks, beams and packing - renumbered RR1 and used for re-railing within the works. Shame it wasn't available this week when GBRf operated 08925 hit the dirt ! ASW also bought two BR vans B954532 & B954734 for use in tours around the company's rail network. Unfortunately these never came about, B954532 was gutted by fire, and both were scrapped after ASW went to the wall in 2002.Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I should have mentioned in my earlier post that the NCB brakevan at Maesteg, a Toad was obtained for use on coal trains originally. When the ex Port Talbot line was open through to Bryn Colliery and beyond the line was obviously BR owned and operated. The NCB had running powers from the washery to Garth where there were exchange sidings serving St Johns Colliery. The NCB brought the output from St Johns Colliery to Maesteg for washing over the PTR and had to run with a brakevan. When the PTR line was closed the NCB carried running over this stretch but didn't bother with the brakevan anymore, however it was retained for use on derailments. I don't know where it was kept but presumed it was either at the loco shed yard or in the sidings serving the wagon shops. Interviewing one of the drivers at Maesteg he said the brakevan was a nuiscance because of having to marshall it onto trains and the amount of running round and shunting it entailed. I think we need to be careful in this thread with brakevans being used for handling traffic and those used for Pway work etc. The prescence of brakevan at a colliery doesn't mean it was used in the working of trains. However this is a very interesting thread, keep em coming! There is a photo of the Cannock Wood colliery brakevan with an NCB English Electric diesel on the following webpage http://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/cannock-wood-colliery-and-paddy-train-%e2%80%93-part-2-b-j-bull/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2011 There is a photo of the Cannock Wood colliery brakevan with an NCB English Electric diesel on the following webpage http://chasewaterstu...art-2-b-j-bull/ There appears to be a problem with the link, it will not load. It might be something to do with there being no www. in there and a superfluous --? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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