Lime Street Station

[Steve Hewitt]

Today, John and I have assembled the layout in preparation for the running sessions that will be starting shortly.

 

A number of things have been achieved since our trip to Watford.

The new roof sections have now been painted to blend in with the original sections many of you are familiar with.

 

Here is John putting the roof into place:

 

 

 

The last piece slots in:

 

 

A final check:

 

 

At eight feet long and five feet wide its a large structure:

 

 

 

Les, who designed and constructed it all, has produced a couple of manuals which record the whole production process for the station roof.

 

One deals with the pillars on which the roof stands. Each is a scale model of the prototype. 3-D CAD design, stereo-lithography, creation of moulds and casting of the final models and installation using jigs to ensure alignment etc. Its all in there.

 

The second manual deals with the roof structure itself, from 3-D CAD design to creation of the Nickel Silver etches - all 40-odd A3 sheets of them, to the use of the assembly jigs for the construction and erection processes.

 

These manuals will be available to read when we are at exhibitions - but don't run off with them! 

 

To transport the roof sections requires special facilities:

 

 

The bottom box carries the larger North roof. It has casters on its base for easy moving.

The second box carries the smaller South roof. It fits onto the lower box and is clipped in place.

Originally Les didn't intend to built the centre sections of each roof, but having now done so, they are carried in the upper box, again fitted and clipped to the others. The stack is too tall to go through the rear door of a Luton box van, so the top box has to be added to the others once inside the van!

 

We have a number of other developments in hand which are scheduled to be in place when we take the layout to Germany next month.

I'll post details as and when .....

 

Steve.

Edited March 8, 2013 by SteveAtBax

[artizen]

The complete roof finishes off this masterpiece. Well done and I'm glad you built it.

[emt_911]

Realy impressed with how it looks with the complete roof. An excellent job.

 

Duncan

[Les Green]

The finished roof looks good now it is painted.

[Steve Hewitt]

Another of the improvements that is currently "Work In Progress" is an upgrade to the Communications sytem which we use at Exhibitions.

 

In the shed we can get away with "Eh Up, what's matter", and stand a fair chance of getting a meaningful response.

However, at exhibitions we try to be somewhat more discrete, and use a 'phone sytem between the two panels and the "back-stage" operator.

Until now this has been a bit of a "lash-up" (John's words) with three handsets and trailing cables etc.

 

This is currently being properly integrated into the various control consoles, with new, smaller, hand sets.

It also means the trailing cables will go, and the connections will be made in the primary wiring system of the layout.

 

Geoff, who builds and maintains all this stuff, has just sent a couple of pictures of two of the consoles and the sector plate control box:

 

 

 

This has to be complete by 09:00 Monday, when I'm due to to collect it and take it to John's for installation!

 

We need it all back together to be able to get the stock out onto the layout, and start working on the next changes to the operating sequence. 

This in turn we aim to complete and test by Wednesday.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

The finished roof looks good now it is painted.

Les,

It didn't look too bad before!

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

This has to be complete by 09:00 Monday, when I'm due to to collect it and take it to John's for installation!

 

We need it all back together to be able to get the stock out onto the layout, and start working on the next changes to the operating sequence. 

This in turn we aim to complete and test by Wednesday.

 

Steve.

 

Monday was a great day.

All the control panels and the two computers were back at John's by 10:00.

Once they were in place and connected up we got the stock into place fairly quickly.

Everything is stored in cassettes in custom built transport boxes.

This was how everything was - as it had returned from Watford last month.

Casstettes are removed in sequence, clipped into place and the trains assembled in a matter of minutes.

 

Before 12:00 we were well into the first run-through and looking for places to improve the sequence.

 

As we acquire more stock, particularly locos, we get new opportunities to vary the operating sequence.

Such an opportunity came early on and we have improved the efficiency of the "Coal Train" shunt.

 

You may wonder why there is a Coal Train at a station which has no Goods and Mineral facilities?

Think of all the coal fired rooms and offices etc., and the Coach Heating boiler.

A couple of wagons of coal are delivered each day to the Steam Plant.

 

After a break for lunch we completed the run-through and identified a "check-point" near the end of the sequence, subsequent to which we knew we needed to make more improvements.

We carefully documented the location of all the stock at the check-point so that we can easily go back to that place in the sequence.

 

Doing so enabled us to modify the end of the sequence quite a lot with the hope that it will now flow much more smoothly from the end of one run-through and into the start of the next cycle.

 

This will hopefully be confirmed tomorrow, when Rob and I will be at John's for the day to give it all a thorough testing.

 

I'll let you know how we get on.......

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Today's running session has been 90 percent successful.

The three of us managed two full runs through the whole sequence.

Each took just under two hours, which is a significant reduction (10 plus minutes) on previous schedule.

 

Whilst it isn't a race by any means, because the sequence contains the same train movements in total as previosly, it indicates that they are better organised, with less waiting time for the operators, which in turn means fewer "Nothing Moving" moments.

 

Technically today presented a couple of items to be investigated and resolved.

 

The first is an electrical problem, which is repeatable and therefore can be identified and cured:

It arises when two particular routes are set at the same time, and there is a cross-feed of some sort.

Either controller will move both trains!

 

We think its quite unique, it occurred on only one occasion, and it is probably a consequence of the revised operating sequence that we've found it.

It's impact can be mitigated by separating the two moves, but the technical cause will be identified and corrected.

John is looking in to it.

Thank goodness for the wiring manuals!

 

The other affected one loco which derailed its pony truck a couple of times.

It's back to the workshop for attention for that.

 

All the other problems today were "operator error" in nature.

Mainly me not reading the instructions I'd written myself.

 

The other team members will be honing their operating skills over the next couple of weeks, so hopefully we can put on a good show in Dortmund next month.

 

Steve.

 

 

[Steve Hewitt]

Technically today presented a couple of items to be investigated and resolved.

 

The first is an electrical problem, which is repeatable and therefore can be identified and cured:

It arises when two particular routes are set at the same time, and there is a cross-feed of some sort.

Either controller will move both trains!

 

We think its quite unique, it occurred on only one occasion, and it is probably a consequence of the revised operating sequence that we've found it.

It's impact can be mitigated by separating the two moves, but the technical cause will be identified and corrected.

John is looking in to it.

Thank goodness for the wiring manuals!

 

The other affected one loco which derailed its pony truck a couple of times.

It's back to the workshop for attention for that.

 

I've had a couple of updates from John today.

First he tackled the "Mickey Mouse" with the disobedient pony truck.

Simply removing the pony truck (an etched assembly replacing the proprietry one) and re-fitting it seems to have solved the problem.

 

Later he reported on the solution to the electrical problem as follows:

 

"The fault I found today has been embedded in the wiring since the layout was first wired. We did see this fault some time before the Warley show I think. The nature of this fault was that it would only show when certain combinations of routes were set. Due to the very high number of route combinations that there are on Lime St., it's no surprise that it is only now when we have seen it, indeed who knows whether or not there are still more out their to be found !

 

After a couple of false starts during which I found some dirty relay contacts, I went back to basic faulting technique, and managed to localise the fault to baseboard 9. When I removed one of the inter board plugs between board 8 and 9, the fault went off. I then used the outrigger to test the wiring looking into baseboard 9. I found a contact between pins 2 and 15. Checking on the wiring chart for that particular plug, I found that no way should these wires be in contact. At first I suspected the wires were in contact inside the plug, but on inspection I found them to be O.K. When I looked at the associated dropper terminal that pin 2 should be wired to, I found that the wire from pin 15 was also terminated on it. Hay presto, fault found ! !

After further investigation, it was found that the wire on pin 15 had been provided by mistake, this was due to a printing error during the design stage of the traction wiring when the layout was first being built. The result of this wiring mistake was that one rail of Coal Siding 1 was in contact with Siding C. This rail of Siding C also in some circumstances is in contact with Platform 5."

 

No doubt more such problems are waiting to trip us up. W just hope we come across them "at home" and not "away" at a show.

 

Steve.

[Ian_H]

Hi Steve

Congratulations to the whole team on a fascinating/fantastic model. Very inspirational in the attention to details from the modelling of the buildings, structures (that roofs' amazing) and track plan together with operational procedures, traverser and the electronics behind it. I've also been following your thread on semaphore signals, great stuff .... I really must pull my finger out and get on with building my own layout rather than fantasising about it. Nevertheless I have a couple of question that hopefully you could enlighten me with.

 

 

With regard to the traverser is this pivoted at one end or does the whole thing move side to side?

Where about is the steam plant located for the coal train that you mentioned a couple of posts ago.

 

thanks

Ian

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi SteveCongratulations to the whole team on a fascinating/fantastic model. Very inspirational in the attention to details from the modelling of the buildings, structures (that roofs' amazing) and track plan together with operational procedures, traverser and the electronics behind it. I've also been following your thread on semaphore signals, great stuff .... I really must pull my finger out and get on with building my own layout rather than fantasising about it. Nevertheless I have a couple of question that hopefully you could enlighten me with. With regard to the traverser is this pivoted at one end or does the whole thing move side to side?Where about is the steam plant located for the coal train that you mentioned a couple of posts ago. thanksIan

Ian, thanks on behalf of all the team for your kind comments.

 

The traverser is pivoted towards one end.

The turntable is cantilevered out beyond the pivot.

 

The Steam Plant is in the area adjacent to the site of the original LNWR turntable.

It's to the very left of the platforms right up against the rock face before the first overbridge.

 

This link will show you the track plan from earlier in this topic.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=102604

You can just make out how the traverser pivots.

The steam plant is by the short sidings at the top of the plan

 

Hope this answers your question.

 

Steve

 

P.s. sorry, I can't get the link to work, but the plan is on page 1 of this topic.

Edited March 15, 2013 by SteveAtBax

[Michael Woolford]

Steve, this has probably been asked before but I have not found it. My question is about the uncoupling system that is used; I would like to know how trains are uncoupled on the layout. From the images of the station control cabinet with the view of the relays, I am assuming that this is done via some sort of electromagnetic system? Also, are there any specific couplings that are used for this? 

 

Will Liverpool Lime Street be making any appearances other than in the north any time soon? (Its a long way to travel for someone who lives in Swindon!)

 

Michael 

[Steve Hewitt]

Steve, this has probably been asked before but I have not found it. My question is about the uncoupling system that is used; I would like to know how trains are uncoupled on the layout. From the images of the station control cabinet with the view of the relays, I am assuming that this is done via some sort of electromagnetic system? Also, are there any specific couplings that are used for this?  Will Liverpool Lime Street be making any appearances other than in the north any time soon? (Its a long way to travel for someone who lives in Swindon!) Michael 

Hi Michael,

The coupling system we use is "KD"s.

There are permanent magnets in all the places where we regularly need to uncouple, with "landmarks" which we use for alignment, usually by the CCTV cameras.

The "buffers" end of each platform for example, when we align with some luggage on the platform, or the end of a parked coach in an adjacent siding.

Roads 2&3 of the sector plate also have permanent magnets located under the camera gantry.

There is also an electro-magnet in the station throat where we align with the "red bucket" by eye. Once uncoupled, stock can propelled into its destination by the station pilot or other loco.

 

No more exhibition venues outside the North are booked.

We have Blackburn and Southport this year, then Wigan and ExpoEM North in 2014, and that's it.

I suggest you get to Blackburn on September 7th/8th. I'm sure you'll think it's worth the effort.

 

Steve

[Michael Woolford]

Steve, unfortunately, the time and cost of travelling by train is too much for me to be able to get to any of the northern exhibitions. Watford finescale was my best chance but I had some personal matters to deal with which stopped me going last month. 2014 might be a better option as I may be driving by then, time is the biggest issue and I can't really afford the extra cost of staying somewhere overnight. Hopefully 2014 will be possible if I have a car by then (will make getting to other exhibitions easier too).

 

Michael 

[Steve Hewitt]

All packed up and ready for the OFF tomorrow morning.

 

Six of us are taking Lime Street to Intermodellbau in Dortmund.

We're looking forward to it with some nervous excitement!

Its an emormous show - about 85,000 visitors expected!

Open hours are 09:00 to 18:00 for each of five days, so we expect it to be exhausting!

 

Not just Railways of course - Boats and Planes and Road traffic and... and ... and ...

 

No doubt we'll find some interesting things to post on RMweb.

 

Steve.

[McRuss]

Hello Steve,

 

I wish you a good exhibition.

If you stay like me in the Holiday Inn, you should plan to start earlier in the morning for the drive to the exhibition centre.

There ususally some traffic jams on the way.

 

Markus

[Les Green]

What time do you suggest setting off from the holiday inn. Is there any public transport from hotel to venue?

Hello Steve,

I wish you a good exhibition.
If you stay like me in the Holiday Inn, you should plan to start earlier in the morning for the drive to the exhibition centre.
There ususally some traffic jams on the way.

Markus

[McRuss]

Hello Les,

 

by car we started about 7:30 in the morning to arrive at the Westfalen Halle Exhibition Centre about 8:00 in the morning. At these time you will need about half an hour from the hotel

to the exhibition, due to traffic jams on the B1.

The nearest tramway/subway station is Hauptfriedhof for the hotel and Westfalenhallen for the exhibition centre.

 

Markus

[Michael Delamar]

hope all is going well, recently discovered this shot of transpennine units at Lime street in 1963.

 

 

Liverpool Lime Street station by Ingy The Wingy, on Flickr

[Michael Delamar]

and a rare shot of platform 10 and 11 in the early 60s.

 

url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/8634481438/]
Liverpool Lime Street station by Ingy The Wingy, on Flickr]

 

and a shot of my AL5 in a similar position

 

[Bloodnok]

and a shot of my AL5 in a similar position

85.JPG

 

... and when are the wires going up on the model?

[beast66606]

Slightly off topic.

 

The prototype will be regaining a platform 10 if the latest plans come to fruition

[queensquare]

I'll be very interested in your thoughts when you get back from Dortmund.We love exhibiting but I'm not sure I fancy five, nine hour days - that sounds like hard work!

 

Jerry

[Michael Delamar]

... and when are the wires going up on the model?

 

if they had a pound for every one who says that at shows, could afford to build another model of lime street with the wires.

[Steve Hewitt]

Its been a bit quiet on this topic recently, so here's a quick summary of what we've been up to:

 

First we had our trip to Intermodelbau at Dortmund.

What a fantastic experience!

Five days of continuous operating - nine hour days at  that.

 

This is certainly the largest modelling event I've ever experienced.

The whole event occupied eight halls of the exhibition complex.

Two halls for railways, with the others containing all manner of modelling.

 

Indoor flying with up to twenty craft in the air simultaneously.

A large indoor pool with radio controlled boats, submarines, oil rigs, fish .....

All manner of road transport and civil engineering.

Several race tracks for "cars", both indoor and out.

 

85,000 visitors over the five days.

 

On our journey back to the ferry at Rotterdam, we called in Wuppertal to ride on the monorail.

This century old system is superb!

A fast, frequent  sevice along about ten miles of track suspended mainly over the river, with about a mile over a main road at one end.

We christened it the "Dangle Bahn".

 

The whole trip took us some nine days, and everyone was completely knackered at the end of it.

 

Since then John has started to re-erect the railway.

The main boards have been assembled and a lot of detailed work will take place in the station throat area.

 

Major task is completing the track details:

Grinding back the rivets on each sleeper of the ply and rivet trackwork, cutting plastic chairs in two and trimming them so they can be fitted individually against the web of the rail!

Mind numbing!

 

We had a servo motor fail on one of the signals, and I replaced that whilst we had the necessary baseboard clamped on the workmate. Thank goodness we don't have to do jobs like that lying on the floor.

 

During the coming months we hope to revise the operating sequence again.

This time basing it ever more closely on the prototype Working Timetable which Noel Coates obatined and analysed for us some time ago.

 

The next show for Lime Street will be Blackburn, at the Hyndburn Leisure Centre, Accrington on September 7/8th.

As most of the current operating team are members of the Blackburn Club, and involved in the exhibition anyway, there will be opportunities for new operators to join the team in the coming months.

 

 

 

Steve.