LBSCR 1910

[Brinkly]

Hi chaps,

 

This is one of my first posts on the new and improved RMWeb, as some of the good chaps here know I lost my partner to cancer over the summer which has knocked me for six. But I am now starting to gain my spark back again and think that I might just have a go at this challenge and get back to a 'normal' service again. Thank you to everyone who sent cards and emails of support, it really did mean so much to me. (Your all great really! )

 

I've decided that I will model something to do with the LBSCR in about 1910-1918, I'm not sure whether I will model a goods yard, or a station at the moment, but a trip to the library will soon get the old creative juices flowing again. I rather fancy some brightly coloured locos and stock!

 

Anyway I'll update again soon.

 

Best wishes,

 

Nick

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Sorry to hear of your loss??¦

 

For a small station, perhaps something like Fittleworth in West Sussex may be in order. Only about three or four points, overbridges at each end of the platform as well as a small, but interesting, array of motive power. The station building still remains, and plans/photos are readily available from a number of sources, in particular the two Middleton Press books cover the Midhurst branches.

[Nick Holliday]

Nick

 

I built my P4 layout of Fittleworth as a response to the Scalefour Society's 18.83 Challenge when it was completed for the 2005 Scaleforum. To get it to fit in the 2,700 or so square inches allowed meant that the length had to be compressed to around 75% of the original - for this challenge you will need to shrink things even more, if you are working in 4 mm. Perhaps you might think of doing it in 2mm, using the Dapol Terrier and Etched Pixels LBSC coaches and wagons, with perhaps a sprinkling of LSW stock to reflect the connection with that line at Midhurst.

Your period of 1910 - 1918 is, theoretically, rather towards the end of the colourful era for the LBSCR. The "yellow" Stroudley Improved Engine Green livery was replaced by the sombre Marsh Umber stating in 1905, although the changeover was attenuated, with the final yellow engine Tillington succumbing to the brown brush in 1917, so you may want to pitch it slightly earlier, although that might mean that locos like the E2, K and L would be strictly out of period.

 

Regards

Nick

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Way too many Nick's on this thread, as despite my user name I am a Nick as well!

 

I must say, that is a very nice model you have there of Fittleworth. Does it get out onto the exhibition circuit?

[Brinkly]

Greetings Nicks!

 

Thank you both for your interest.

 

Nick H thank you for the lovely photo of Fittleworth, something that I might do is model part of a station, or perhaps a junction or something where there is a bit of action and could be easily extended. Last night in bed whilst reading Iain Rice's Designs for Urban Layouts I found his take on Cyril Freezer's Minories; his idea was to produce a station in 6ft 6inches by 1ft 3inches, but the board had a curved, so being generous the part of the station being modelled would be about 1300 square inches, which would leave some 700 or so inches left. So I might get Templot out and have a go at a track plan to see what it might look like.

 

I had thought of 2mm, but I really don't fancy it! Far too small even for my 23 year old eyes!

 

Best wishes,

 

Nick

[10800]

Didn't see that one coming Nick! Just think, if you go a bit earlier rather than later in your period you can also do without sleepers!

 

Let me know if you want to raid my library any time .

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Nick

 

I built my P4 layout of Fittleworth as a response to the Scalefour Society's 18.83 Challenge when it was completed for the 2005 Scaleforum. To get it to fit in the 2,700 or so square inches allowed meant that the length had to be compressed to around 75% of the original - for this challenge you will need to shrink things even more, if you are working in 4 mm. Perhaps you might think of doing it in 2mm, using the Dapol Terrier and Etched Pixels LBSC coaches and wagons, with perhaps a sprinkling of LSW stock to reflect the connection with that line at Midhurst.

Your period of 1910 - 1918 is, theoretically, rather towards the end of the colourful era for the LBSCR. The "yellow" Stroudley Improved Engine Green livery was replaced by the sombre Marsh Umber stating in 1905, although the changeover was attenuated, with the final yellow engine Tillington succumbing to the brown brush in 1917, so you may want to pitch it slightly earlier, although that might mean that locos like the E2, K and L would be strictly out of period.

Fittleworth does look nice! Perhaps I'm biased, mind, as some of my forbears are in the churchyard there! I always wondered about an imaginary branch off that branch, terminating at Graffham. Of course the Midhurst line was originally the main line until Hardham Junction arrived, anyway. On a Route Availability note - to use a modern expression! - would K and especially L have been down that line? I always thought of it as mostly tanks, with Vulcans & C3s on freights, and B2s and then B4s taking the Prince of Wales to Singleton!

[Brinkly]

Didn't see that one coming Nick! Just think, if you go a bit earlier rather than later in your period you can also do without sleepers!

 

Let me know if you want to raid my library any time .

 

 

 

I do have a real love of little engines on what appear to be quite long trains, with Gentlemen in top hats and not a care for health and safety!

[Mikkel]

LBSC 1910, eh? Is it too early to cast my vote?

 

Seriously though, this sounds very good Nick. A pregrouping layout does have the advantage of shorter trains, platforms etc. Sounds like you will be building new stock especially for this layout?

[Captain Kernow]

I do have a real love of little engines on what appear to be quite long trains, with Gentlemen in top hats and not a care for health and safety!

I can see that I'm going to have to get you a few 4mm scale high visibility vests and some hard hats....!!

 

Presumably you will start with the Hornby Terrier tank and a Branchlines chassis to P4 standards? Have a read of the relevent chapter in the Tim Shackleton 'Plastic Bodied Locos' book with regards to bringing the Hornby model up to standard.

 

 

 

 

 

No smilies in this post out of deference to The FatAdder's wishes!

[10800]

http://www.5and9models.co.uk/index.html

 

This might be a bit too early Nick (nice though). Albion Models to some nice kits too, especially the D 0-4-2T and there's a number of coaches available from Roxey.

[Brinkly]

LBSC 1910, eh? Is it too early to cast my vote?

 

Seriously though, this sounds very good Nick. A pregrouping layout does have the advantage of shorter trains, platforms etc. Sounds like you will be building new stock especially for this layout?

 

 

Oh yes! Completely from scratch, I have ex GWR locomotives and stock suitable for another layout, but this I feel challenge will get me building again. And if I think it through carefully it could be extended/developed after the closing date.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick

[Brinkly]

I can see that I'm going to have to get you a few 4mm scale high visibility vests and some hard hats....!!

 

haha! Would be quite funny to include a man with a clipboard whilst building the layout!

 

Presumably you will start with the Hornby Terrier tank and a Branchlines chassis to P4 standards? Have a read of the relevent chapter in the Tim Shackleton 'Plastic Bodied Locos' book with regards to bringing the Hornby model up to standard.

 

 

And yeah that was the plan. Something small to get the old juices flowing again. I think this challenge might be just what I needed!

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick

[Brinkly]

http://www.5and9mode...o.uk/index.html

 

This might be a bit too early Nick (nice though). Albion Models to some nice kits too, especially the D 0-4-2T and there's a number of coaches available from Roxey.

 

 

Yeah Roxey make some beautiful coaches, some of the 4 and 6 wheeler carriages are just stunning.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

On a Route Availability note - to use a modern expression! - would K and especially L have been down that line? I always thought of it as mostly tanks, with Vulcans & C3s on freights, and B2s and then B4s taking the Prince of Wales to Singleton!

 

It would be extremely unlikely that either the K or L passed this way, too heavy. During the time in question passenger services were almost exclusively in the hands of D/D1 tanks, with C2s and C3s on the goods. You would have also seen E4s along this route. I have heard that the 0-4-4 Class D3s operated the line, although I have yet to see a picture confirming this... the only picture captioned as a D3 was actually a D1.

 

Would the Goodwood trains run via Midhurst, or would they approach Singleton from the south?

[John B]

Great idea, Nick. I'm rather fond of the Brighton line myself..

 

As Rod has suggested, Albion Models (available last I looked from Dave Hammersley at Roxey) do some lovely ex-LBSC etched kits - I've thrown together a D1 & E1 and have an E6 in the works - I liked them so much I have another few still in flat-pack format. Also, the old Wills (now SE) Finecast D1/E1 kit is pretty good. One I built (much) earlier is still plying it's trade occasionally on a P4 layout in the south of England..

 

5 and 9 models, if you can get 'em, are similarly lovely. As for more modern LBSC carriages, Roxey is again the place to go.

 

Let me know if you need any pics / drawings etc for inspiration. Sadly I can't use PMs on here but you know where to find me!

[Nick Holliday]

The only locos not allowed on the line were the Pacific and Baltic tanks and the K Class. In 1911 Midhurst shed had an allocation was four D1??™s - 78A, 239, 361 and 634 plus an E3 (455) and an E4 (482). Earlier, the services were in the hands of various Terriers, Nos. 42 Tulsehill, 77 Wonersh and 82 Boxhill, and for many years E1 0-6-0T No. 109 Strasbourg spent its weekdays on the branch goods services and Sundays in charge of the passenger trains, including the evening one which ran through to Horsham and Three Bridges. It was the only goods engine at Midhurst, and although seldom stopped on the shed was one of the best cleaned E1??™s on the line and a pleasant contrast to many of those at the London sheds, which were often grubby. (Bradley RCTS) Terriers re-appeared later on push-pull trains from Horsham.

The D3 class regularly worked the Midhurst branch, and it was while so engaged on the evening of 20th September, 1946, that No. 2373 crashed into a tree blown across the track by the high wind. No one was injured, though the chimney was knocked off and the cab damaged. One was actually named Fittleworth, but that was no guarantee that it worked on the branch.

Samuel Laing, one of the Gladstone class, often headed the 6.25 a.m. Brighton-Chichester, and then took an all-stations train mainly for the convenience of staff via Midhurst and Pulborough to Horsham, and then ran fast to Victoria. The return was with the 12.55 p.m. via Horsham. (Bradley RCTS)

I cannot recall seeing any photo of a C3 on the line at least in earlier days, but there are references to C2's including involvment in an incident with the LBSCR armoured train at the station itself.

As far as stock for 4mm is concerned, apart from Roxey coaches and wagons, Southern Finecast & Albion locos (Gladstone, D1, E1, E5 and E6 & I3) and the 5&9 items (lots of more modern wagons as well as the crusty Craven coaches), Branchlines produce a wide range of six wheel and bogie coaches, including the distinctive balloon push-pull coaches, EB Models (Exclusively Brighton) have produced kits for all the other Stroudley classes - C, C1, D2, G, Richmond, Abergavenny, Grosvenor, Sussex and a Craven single, as well as a six wheel coach and signals, ACE MOdels have a growing range of loco kits including the H1 and H2 Atlantics, J & L tanks, and, I think, the K and B4, London Road Models do the B4 and a couple of 4 wheel vans, Blacksmith do the K class and a range of balloon coaches, and Cambrian, Smallbrook and ABS can contribute a wagon or two and DJH a C2 and C2X, Chivers Finelines the D3 and Worsley a coach. Enough to be getting on with I would have thought. (Apologies to anyone I have missed out)

As for my Fittleworth layout, I was running it at Tolworth over the weekend, but I haven't received any invitations so that may be its last appearance.

[Buckjumper]

Ian MacCormac's site might be of interest with some nice bits in both 4mm and 7mm. Some of the bits are slightly early for your chosen period, but other may be of use.

[Mikkel]

I suppose you are familiar with the LB&SCR site? I try not to go there too much as I always get tempted to abandon what I've got and start off a new layout

[Guest 009matt]

In the past, I have built an Albion D1 (Roxey sell them) to P4 standards and a set of the coaches. They were my first try at etched brss kits and went together very easily. I used Sharman wheels and London Road Models Hornblocks with a 'wobbly bar' means of suspension (ie a brass rod soldered ast right angles to abrass tbe and threaded across a rod fixed between the frames - holes are etched ready for inclusion) . Ran very well and I would recommend the kit. The coaches look superb too and are extremely easy to put together snd contain the compensation units.

 

Matt

[Oldddudders]

The Brighton will always remain my favourite railway, not least because it was one of the two closest to my home - the SE&CR Redhill-Reading branch was actually much closer, and had steam in my yoof, but the Brighton routes prevailed. And Dorking North was where I started my career. Sadly I know from experience that kit-building locos and stock is not my forte - the result may not run well, and certainly won't look the biz to my critical eye. As I return to UK modelling for the first time in 25 years, it is the LSW in far Devon that will see me pitch in to the 2010 Challenge - simply because Hornby are selling products that overcome my limitations.

 

Brinkly has clearly had a dreadful time of things recently. I can sympathise, but my wife is merely in a wheelchair after an accident - not her fault. Let's hope building a Brighton model set in innocent Edwardian times helps you to bounce right back.

[Brinkly]

Chaps I am overwhelmed by the response that I have received with this project; I will try and answer your posts ASAP! (The advice has been excellent) Thank you all for your input so far.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick

 

 

[Brinkly]

Hi chaps,

 

 

Well time for an update as it has been nearly a week since I first posted, once again many thanks for your interest and input, I have really appreciated it.

 

On Monday I spent a very enjoyable afternoon in the company of Rod (10800) and his fantastic library of books and came away full of enthusiasm and ideas, almost too many ideas! I had planned to build a terminus station, based on LBSCR practice set between 1910 to 1920, although I might change the period to the early days of the Southern Railway, or even during the Second World War, as the painting and lining of LBSCR stock will probably take me a year in itself!

The plan itself is one of Iain Rice??™s in his book Designs for Urban Layouts, http://i71.photobuck...esrice_0003.jpg this is the web link, which I hasten to add I didn??™t copy the plan as I have my own copy of the book!

 

I do like the plan and I worked out that the layout only totals some 1080 square inches, leaving just under 1000 square inches for increasing the boards and the provision of a fiddle yard. At DRAG on Monday even Brain Harrap worked his magic and drew the track plan on a sheet of lining paper, but I must confess that I prefer through stations and just being able to watch the trains go by, which is interesting as Mr Cameron said the same thing regarding Camberhurst. So I am in two minds as to what do to currently. I really like the idea of the terminus, as it is an achievable project in the time given and that it fits so very well into the space permitted in the competition rules, but I still have this nagging voice saying build a through station, similar to, once again Mr Rice??™s Melling plan http://www.uckfieldm.../mellingnf.html but changing the plan to Mayfield Station and perhaps only having part of the layout being entered into the challenge. So chaps I??™d be very interested in hearing your suggestions!

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Nick

 

[The Fatadder]

but I still have this nagging voice saying build a through station, similar to, once again Mr Rice??™s Melling plan http://www.uckfieldm.../mellingnf.html but changing the plan to Mayfield Station and perhaps only having part of the layout being entered into the challenge. So chaps I??™d be very interested in hearing your suggestions!

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Nick

 

 

 

How about something along similar lines to what I am thinking. build a terminus station for the competition, but design the trackplan so that by removing the buffer stop/ station building shown in your first plan you can incorporate it into a continuous run after the competition?

[skipepsi]

Sorry to hear of your loss Nick. I had wondered where you had got to with your enthusiasm for P4. To me put the rice terminus on more of a curve and open up underneath the terminus with a mirror against the two tracks. Then when the competition is over complete the terminus and take the track on and around.