DLT's NG Workbench - Back to The Hunslets

[DLT]

Thanks Don, I must admit I'm warming to the Frog-Juicer idea. There are more diamond crossings on the British narrow-gauge than you might think, especially on the industrial lines.

Thankfully there were few really complicated installations like scissors-crossovers, although there was (is?) one on the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch, and one at Tooban Junction on the Londonderry & Lough Swilly.

Having contemplated a junction station based on Tooban, I may yet have to build one.

Cheers,

Dave.

[Jack P]

Just read through the thread DLT, Love it! The detail is superb and from what I can see, the layout looks the same!

 

Jack

[DLT]

Just read through the thread DLT, Love it! The detail is superb and from what I can see, the layout looks the same!

Jack

Thanks very much Jack, theres more pictures on my layout threads, links below.

 

All the best,

Dave.

[DLT]

The grounded van body that stood behind the platform at Charmouth is "grounded" no more.


The addition of a Peco narrow-gauge wagon chassis kit, couplings, a coat of grey paint and some of my wonky hand-lettering has transformed it into this:


A brake lever, some odd detailing and a dose of weathering. and it will take its place alongside the others.


These vans had originally come from a limited-edition basswood kit from the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association many years ago, and the grounded body was scratchbuilt to match.
The other vans recently had Irish-style corrugated iron roofs fitted, but this one will remain as timber and canvas for variety.

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[DLT]

DCC-ing the MVR locos is almost done, although it was a bit of a squeeze to find space for the TCS T1 chips in some locos. Even though they may seem pretty big to 009 or N-Gauge modellers, they are all pretty solid and some had literally been built around the RG4 mechanism, with very little available cavity.

The T1 does fit perfectly inside the boiler castings of the Wrightlines Baldwin kit though, after a little bit of scraping away for clearance. The whitemetal castings are so thick and hefty that you can carve out plenty from inside if needed, without affecting the strength of the parts.

I had deliberately left the boiler top as a sliding fit when I built it, to maintain access to the motor. The whole loco was built as a series of sub-assemblies, as these locos do not easily lend themselves to the classic body/chassis split method of modelling.

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 25, 2017 by DLT

[DLT]

While thinking about a few wagons for the Bridport Harbour Tramway, I decided that Welshpool style would suit them well.
Sooo, I dug out the batch of Dorset Kits wagons I built a few years back, and repainted one of the original type opens in a new livery. The later pattern wagons would represent the same vehicles after rebuilding by the MVR.
Gives a touch more variety in the wagon department. Does it look ok? Both still need dirtying down of course.


The new (old) livery is a darker grey, Humbrol 27, lettered with some Woodhead Transfers that I had from years ago.
Woodhead Transfers came and went quite quickly if I remember rightly. They were mainly sets of lettering and numbering for Private Owner Wagons, so you could do your own lettering etc.
I've no idea if anybody produces lettering in this style nowadays; white capitals with black shading. Any suggestions?

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[Adam]

Woodhead Transfers came and went quite quickly if I remember rightly. They were mainly sets of lettering and numbering for Private Owner Wagons, so you could do your own lettering etc.

I've no idea if anybody produces lettering in this style nowadays; white capitals with black shading. Any suggestions?

 

Cheers, Dave.

 

I think HMRS do something very similar. I only hope that they're more useful than the BR wagon types which are profoundly irritating and very limited in what you can do with them.

 

Adam

[DLT]

Hi Adam,

Just had a look and indeed, HMRS do a comprehensive range of wagon lettering. I don't know why I hadn't them before, I've been using HMRS transfers for years!

Thanks very much,

Dave.

[DLT]

Three wagons now resplendant in BHTC livery. The left hand wagon is the only one weathered yet.


Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[DLT]

My apologies to anyone who came to the Thorncombe Exhibition, for the very poor running seen on Bridport Town.

 

It was my first exhibition under DCC control and the results weren’t far off an unmitigated disaster. Locomotives stalling and needing prodding, stopping for no apparent reason, not starting and then taking off like a rabbit, & jerky running. All such operating problems had plagued model railways 25 years ago and were just what I had striven to eradicate in my own modelling. Then there were the glitches in control, such as the speed setting mysteriously resetting itself to zero.

 

I suffered an exceptional build-up of dirt on the wheels, which didn’t help, and I was cleaning locos by mid-morning! I would normally expect to get through a whole day without cleaning again. (As per normal, all locos were cleaned and packed away two nights previously, and all track cleaned at the start of the show)

 

Just to explain the setup, I have an NCE Powercab, and in addition we were using my friends Powercab as a slave unit, plugged into the right hand socket with the 4-pin slave lead. Is it possible that this setup isn’t suitable?

 

I’ve been using the Powercab at home for testing for quite a while with acceptable results but this was the first exhibition. I can’t really make any decisions yet on the usability of the controller due to the problems with running, but I’ve made some immediate short-term observations.

 

I had adopted dcc to get rid of the section switches and make operation more versatile. At shows we spend too much time peering at and fiddling with the section switches. Today we spent the time peering at and fiddling with the display and buttons on the controller instead! Some of the features of dcc control that seemed to be intuitive/improvement in theory proved not to be in practice. For instance, push-button forward/reverse, and “forward” meaning chimney first whichever way the loco is pointing. This proved to be a pain in the backside if the loco was out of sight in the shed or fiddleyard. I was having to look for the loco to see which way it was pointing and then look at the display to see which direction was set. All this compared to flicking a mechanical switch in the direction of travel. I realise that many of these features are designed for large American style basement layouts with umpteen locos, where the system really comes into its own.

 

I know this was only the first day under exhibition conditions, and I will let my anger, embarrassment and bitter disappointment recede before I have another go or make any snap decisions. The fact is I want this to work from an operational point of view. At the same time, I’m not a control-freak and don’t want to spend hours programing to get locos to work properly. For me it’s got to work, and be simple and reliable.

 

Thanks for listening!

Dave.

[Donw]

My experience is with Lens I have both the buttons type controller and also the Knob type. I find the Knob type more intuitive and you have an easy visual guide to the speed setting. Regarding the forward reverse. One thing I found was that the the chips remember the last direction of travel I tried this and it always seem to work despite being switched off and packed away replace a loco on the track turn the speed up and it will move off in the same direction as the last movement. On my system if you could see the loco all you had to do was press the desired direction button and it would be set. For a through type FY (especially with separate up or down lines) the is no problem so long as you want the train to come out the opposite end to which it went in. If you have a turntable type FY you have no problems once turned all the locos will be set to continue on and so come out in the right direction ( they do not know they have been turned. Problems arise with stub type yards particularly if you pick up the locos and place them at the other end. One approach would be for the FY operator to remove all locos on entry to the yard and store them on a small pice of track then before adding them to a train ready to exit just make them do a small movement in the required direction ( it could also be done as they are placed on the front of a train) and then they would be set.

There are other issues one of which is when you drive trains to you you may not be sure which loco is on the train so either you have to stick to a rigid system such as the flip cards where approriate details of the loco is direction and the chip address could be added or you need to establish a communication between operators. Of course if you have spells of operating alone you could arrange so form of aid. If the FY is hidden under scenery I think you could adpat fridge magnets and a metal plate. Mark the FY lines on the plate marke the magnets with the decoder address and the loco direction i.e facing left or right and you will know where you are. Personally for that sort of operation the trainturntable fy is ideal.

Regards Don

[DLT]

Hi Don,

 

Thanks very much for your thoughts and suggestions. The layout is terminus to fiddle yard, and the fiddleyard is the cassette type to give hands-off hand shunting, while saving space. Thus the locos do not end up in a predictable position or direction. The system can remember which direction they last moved in, but I can't!

 

One large dcc layout I've operated is Bob Harper's extensive 0n3 sytem, controlled by Lenz with each operator having a Lenz 90 handset with the knob and switch. This worked like a dream and was a joy to operate. However many of the dcc usability inovations can seem an unneccessary complication on a small terminus-fiddleyard layout.

 

I'm sleeping on it for a few days before I make any further decissions, and it may be a case of going back to dc for Warley. It could be suggested that as I'm not installing sound or lots of powered accessoruies than I'm wasting my time with dcc.

 

Cheers,

Dave.

[Stubby47]

That you've had such a bad experience is a great shame, espeically as you are used to such impeccable running.

 

I hope you do overcome your initial gremlins, the layout deserves to have the best control facilities, whether that's DC or DCC.

 

Stu

[PaulRhB]

Having used powercabs on Leaford when helping Kevin I can assure you they work very well under show conditions. The having to look at the locos bit is different as dcc wander leads tend to assume you go to the loco rather than controlling them from one point like you are used to?

Maybe take pics of the locos from the side and always place them on the same way round and have a sheet with the pics the same way round as the model stuck to the rear of the backscene at the scenic end of the layout?

The dirt issue does tend to suggest there was a lot of dust around from somewhere as we've found cleaning once a day is usually sufficient with all the dcc systems we've used on exhibition layouts.

Have you got any acceleration or deceleration programmed into your chips as I've found some decoders can really improve with a tiny bit of that added as they seem to use a bit of stored power. Maybe that's because I only use sound decoders, and they might have some capacitors that help, as it's the main benefit on small layouts for me.

[DLT]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, I'm still fiddling with it and trying not to lose any sleep. I know, I need to get out more!

 

I've made no major or irreversible alterations to locos or layout wiring, so its a simple task to convert back to dc if I get the urge. Its been suggested that this might be contributing to the problem with Bridport, the DCC signal is having to travel through the whole Cab Control wiring to reach the track, with the potential for voltage drop. Charmouth is wired in a more simple manner, for one dc controller with basic on/off switches. As the section switches are on a remote plug-in panel I can replace it with a blanking plug that shorts all the sections together, doing away with the switches. I can't do this with Bridport, as the panel is built into the layout.

 

Dave.

[Barry O]

Dave

 

If you have Bob Harpers email address seek his knowledge and support. If not PM me as I am not sure how often he visits RMWeb. Or seek him out at Warley - he is always very helpful.

 

However, there are a number of layouts which use dc cab control wiring with DCC (it plug and play) so this shouldn't be a problem. How big is your transformer? (ie is it giving enough umph in voltage/ampage terms?) In addition at some shows the actual voltage arriving at the transformer can be less than ideal - Digitrax handsets let you know what volts they are sending out- can you see this on the Powercab?

 

I have only ever used Lenz and my own preference of Digitrax systems so can't comment on your DCC controller.

[DLT]

Hi Barry,

 

Thanks very much for your suggestions.

Following a gap of a week or so while I regained my sense of objectivity, I have been back to operational testing. This time on Charmouth where the wiring is much simpler. After considerable operating/testing, I was still experiencing glitches in running and a general lack of prodictable/positive control. So with Warley less than a week away I have decided to stick with dc for now, and removed the decoders from my locos. (I hadnt got around to fitting all of them anyway)

Its quite a relief to get back the positive, precise control that I've always enjoyed, even if I have to live with the section switching. Running on dc with the decoders fitted didnt work either, although the manufacturers claim the decoders to be "transparent" to dc, there was still a delay on starting followed by a jump into movement.

I'm not completely giving up on dcc yet, maybe I need to try a different system. The Lenz Set 90 handset with the big control knob looks the best for me, but I had been put off by the price; approx twice the cost of the Powercab to start with. I've been offered a Roco Lokmaus system to try out as well.

 

All the best,

Dave.

[N15class]

Sorry to hear you have had problems with the running in DCC. I am sure going DC again for the exhibition is the best thing to do. You can then experiment at your own pace afterward to get it right.

[Barry O]

Hi Barry,

 

Thanks very much for your suggestions.

Following a gap of a week or so while I regained my sense of objectivity, I have been back to operational testing. This time on Charmouth where the wiring is much simpler. After considerable operating/testing, I was still experiencing glitches in running and a general lack of prodictable/positive control. So with Warley less than a week away I have decided to stick with dc for now, and removed the decoders from my locos. (I hadnt got around to fitting all of them anyway)

Its quite a relief to get back the positive, precise control that I've always enjoyed, even if I have to live with the section switching. Running on dc with the decoders fitted didnt work either, although the manufacturers claim the decoders to be "transparent" to dc, there was still a delay on starting followed by a jump into movement.

I'm not completely giving up on dcc yet, maybe I need to try a different system. The Lenz Set 90 handset with the big control knob looks the best for me, but I had been put off by the price; approx twice the cost of the Powercab to start with. I've been offered a Roco Lokmaus system to try out as well.

 

All the best,

Dave.

Dave

makes sense for you to be happy running the layout in dc mode at Warley.

 

I use Digitrax - and a collegue uses a Zephyr (which has a big control knob on it) and handsets which also have knobs and dial ups for loco numbers.

 

My Digitrax decoders will work with dc - indeed fitting one to a rtr loco turned it into being dc controllable.

BUT its horses for courses -try as many systems as you can - and also look at the decoders you use - the prime ones may be more expensive but seem to work so much better.

 

See you at Warley ( and Bob H is there)

 

Barry

[DLT]

Apologies that this thread has been quiet for so long, but the truth is that I havent done any narrow gauge modelling for a while. I am though, doing a bit of work on Bridport in time for the Taunton Members Day, and wanted to bring the DCC issue up to date.

 

Following the succesful Warley experience, chats with various fellow modellers and a lot of thought, I have decided to abandon DCC. I've sold my Powercab and decoders, as readers of the Narrow Gauge Online Forum will already know.

 

Aside from the reliability issues I suffered earlier, I realised that DCC was of no advantage to me on the types of layout I've built, and was simply adding unneccessary complications. So I'm sticking with the tried and tested methods that have worked for many years, and I can live with a few section switches.

 

Thanks very much to everyone for the advice, suggestions and support that you have given me over this issue, it was all very much appreciated.

 

All the best, Dave.

[Donw]

No need to apologise Dave we just enjoy the post when they come. At least having tried DCC staying with DC is now a positive choice.

Don

[DLT]

My NG workbench has been very quiet this year while I've been working on standard gauge locos, but I've got several projects coming up.

My K1 Garratt was never fully finished. It was a bit of a personal indulgence, not being really suited to the MVR, but it took so long I rather lost interest in it. I'm thinking about putting it up for sale, but I need to finish it first. So I will be detailing a few finishing touches on here.  This photo was taken several years ago, and its had quite a bit done to it since.

 

Having had a good look at my K1 and taken it apart, its somewhat protracted construction is starting to come back to me.  Most of the superstructure assembly is pretty straightforward as etched kits go, fold-up etches, half-etched overlays, a small amount of bending to a curved shape, etc, etc.

 

There is some provision for sub-assemblies in the kit design, but I wanted to break it down more.  The footplate is built in one piece as intended, but I added some strengthening ribs underneath where it seemed a bit flimsy, especially as I wanted the cab removable.  Not too difficult a job, I added some strips of brass angle inside the bottom edges of the cab for strength.  The cab floor with the backhead attached has captive screws going down through the footplate for nuts to be added underneath.  This actually holds the cab down.

 

The boiler/firebox is designed as a separate sub-assembly, and is secured by two screws; one through the cab front; and another through the middle footplate crossmember into the bottom of the boiler barrel.

 

 

The power-bogies presented a few challenges, but I'll talk about those later.

 

More soon,

Cheers, Dave.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[DLT]

Blimey 46444, that was quick, a "Like" within seconds of posting!

[DLT]

When it comes to the power bogies I could probably write a book on their construction.  I’m not going to though, as I wouldn’t really recommend some of the things I did!  The frames are the best example of the “fit once” design of the kit; one of the first things you do is to fold up the chassis frames and trap the wheels and axles in place for all time.   Now I like to finish a kits construction and then be able to take it apart for painting, hence my desire for screw-together sub-assemblies.  JC took the sensible approach and slotted out the frames to fit hornblocks, and that is the method I recommend.  I’m not going to detail what I did with the axles etc, as it’s a bit of a bodge but it worked!

Outside cranks are three etched layers, well designed so they solder together neatly.  Mounting them on the axles though is a rather hit & miss affair, involving little plastic bushes screwed on the axle ends, with the cranks Loctited to the bushes.  I don’t doubt that this method works fine in 4mm scale, for which the kit was designed, and may well work in 7mm, but I thought it needed something a bit stronger and more positive in its fit.  

In the end I engineered a solution, but again I wouldn’t recommend it!  If I was doing it again I would probably opt for Gibson wheels on extended axles with hornblocks, and the cranks very firmly fitted to the axle ends.  That way you drop the whole axle out from below in once piece.  In fact, just what JC did with his.

 

The other change I made to the bogie was the pickups.  As designed they are top-acting wipers, on the wheel treads.  All safely out of harm’s way, tucked up under the superstructure.  Pickups are mounted on an etched bracket that solders to the frames. I simply fitted this bracket upside-down so that I could fit the pickups from below, soldered to a circuitboard plate.

 

The motor and drive arrangement is superb, for each bogie you get a Faulhaber motor with integral gearhead, that drives the axle via a right-angled bevel gear.  The drive is very quiet and smooth, the gearing giving you a very nice flywheel effect.

The motor is mounted on a separate removeable plate, that is held in place by the reversing gear cross-shaft.  Mine was a bit slack and the bevel gear would come out of mesh.  This was a known problem, and cured by using a slightly larger diameter shaft and ensuring everything was a good tight fit.  

Herein lies the problem with the top-acting pickups.  Should you need to get at them for any reason, you need to remove the tank assembly, and then remove the motor by sliding out the cross-shaft.  Part of the valvegear is mounted on the ends of the cross-shaft, so this would need to be removed as well!

 

I'll talk about the valvegear later.

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[N15class]

Its a shame non members cant read your update on the narrow gauge forum.