Michael Delamar Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Ive been searching for many years for any info on this short branch, from the Midland Langton branch. Ive only ever seen one overhead photograph and an ordnance survey map. Ive never seen any other photographs. I believe they had theyre own shunter(s) until the branch closed in 1968, but I know nothing about them, apart from one called Gilmore which was new in the early 1900s but know nothing about the later days. Id like to know how the wagons where discharged, my dad remembers 16t mineral wagons going in and out, behind a black 5. and places to search for photographs. many thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 No photographs (yet), but in the meantime... "GILMOUR" [sic] can be identified as Hunslet 597/1893, an 0-6-0ST sold directly to Liverpool Gas Co., Linacre. Standard gauge, 3'1" wheels, 12"x18" cylinders. (This is a useful resource for looking up a loco name: http://www.industrial-loco.org.uk/) There is a letter in Industrial Railway Record 60 which mentions working on the gasworks site and the remains of a 2ft gauge line visible in the 'fifties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The book "An Illustrated History of Liverpool's Railways" - Irwell Press (ISBN 1 871608686) has a good map on page 52 showing the branch, with paragraph on page 61 & a photo on page 65 looking along the line under the L&Y Southport line. This is the photo http://oritelad.webs.com/gaswork.JPG More info & photos here http://www.yoliverpo...e-pics-and-help Hope it helps - just edited this as the above links are from OP - but the info may be of use to others. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 thanks guys Eddie I do have a photo of Gilmore somewhere, a builders photo, outside cylinders with a basic cab,although it shows no background, Im wondering how long that loco lasted till,and did they get any other locos or diesel shunters later? Brit15, I do have that book, as you just noticed that thread was started by me thanks guys the line was double track over the canal into the unloading with wagon turntables and then on the OS map they went into covered buildings where I imagine the wagons were tipped up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Hi Mike, There are a few pictures of the Langton docks in 'Liverpool - Manchester Cheshire Lines' by Bob Pixton. Your thread(s) are always interesting, and have me searching reference books, which I really enjoy, but it always leaves me reflecting on the fact that there are too few photos of Liverpools railways, which is a great shame. Best regards, Tom D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 thanks Tom I agree there are very little although Ive come across lots over the last few years. some more do keep turning up, look at that new book Liverpool seaport city I do have the cheshire lines book, Ive got nearly every book done on Liverpool, it does have some nice photos of the branch, but at the west end of Bootle tunnel,Ive never seen any shots of the eastern end and the branch into the gasworks, apart from one shot a bit further up near Walton Prison and Hartleys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 a member of a liverpool yahoo group has done some digging for me.... "Info. from "Industrial Locomtives Of Lancashire" by Birmingham Locomtive Club (1952) - long out of print but 2nd hand copies occasionally seen. North Western Gas Board, Linacre Gas Works (formerly Liverpool Gas Co.) 5 locos are shown as having been here at some time, 3 steam & 2 diesel:- "Lawrence" 0-4=0ST, HE 534/1891. Sold before 1952 "Gilmour" 0-6-0ST, HE 597/1893. Reported derelict in 1951. "Frank" 0-4-0ST, AB 1261/1912. Short period loan in 1946. "Kirkby" 0-4-0D, JF 22944/1941. Ex- ROF Kirkby in 1946. (Unnamed) 4wD, RH 299101/1950. Only the two diesels were listed as in service in 1952. No photos of any of these in the book. Hope this is of some use" is there any way of finding any photos of these, or any more info on them, particularly the diesels? also I never knew the proper title of the gasworks, ie North western gas board hopefully some clues there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 its the 2 diesels that interest me, and if they aquired any more before closure in 1968. Im guessing "kirkby" will be a John Fowler? and unnamed will be a Ruston Hornsby, but what type of loco Id like to know if anyone can help please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Correct on both builders. JF 22944/1941 was no.4 of a batch supplied to ROF (Royal Ordnance Factory), Kirkby and was a standard gauge, 150hp, 4-cylinder loco (according to the works list published by the ILS). RH 299101/1950 was a 20-ton Ruston type 88DS, supplied new (left works) 11/10/1950. While no photos of this specific loco, there are numerous photos of similar locos and a scale drawing in The Ruston Class 48DS and 88DS Locomotives by David Hall (from which the above details were taken). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 thanks Eddie, a quick google has got pics of the 88ds. Im not well up on industrial loco's but I do recognise them just the john fowler loco, is it the type with the flower pot chimney? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2011 No, it would be similar to LMS ED2-6, the ones you are thinking of were 88hp. Both this and the RH 88DS are in our list of future kits. Michael Edge Judith Edge kits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 ah yes, Ive actually got one of them in bits, Chris Hewitts old one which wasnt a good runner so I took the motor out of it. not sure what make it was they had one ED7 at Aintree, their is a pic of it in the pictorial history of the diesel shunter. I think I remember hearing that Bank hall would lend shunters to the gasworks when their own locos needed to go off for repair. they also did that at Harteys jam works,. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 do any of the fowler locos survive? I know the BR ones were scrapped but wasnt there one at the severn valley? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted May 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2011 There are a few survivors but I haven't got round to any of them yet, one at Errwood (mid wales) externally restored, one a bit nearer at Embsay but I think it's in rather bad condition. There's one at Peak Rail which I have looked at but it has been rebilt as a Vanguard so it's all Thomas Hill above the frames. I have been told that all these should be essentially the same as the LMS ones but measuring the frame of the Peak rail one doesn't tally with the LMS or SR weight diagrams (Southern railway had a couple of these as well). I've never been ableto locate any Fowler drawings. If anyone can offer any assistance with these 150hp Fowlers, or point me in the direction of any more examples I would be very grateful - and the kit would be a bit closer to production. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 there is a great photo on the art in action Bootle Facebook site taken from Linacre lane. can just see the railway bridge in the background and all the towers and chimneys etc of the gasworks which have gone. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=208549205845853&set=o.130281883662401&type=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 here is an ordnance survey map from 1956. showing the tracks into the gasworks, what I cant fathom is how the wagons would be unloaded, pretty sure its just after the weighbridges but how they where unloaded ive no idea, can see what looks like a conveyor going from it to one of the buildings and also over the canal where I think they stockpiled coal. the lightley drawn crossing over the canal I think may be one of the electricity gantries seen in the facebook pic. also the building at the end of the tracks may be a engine shed? the long siding below the mineral works is where they would leave the brake van, they would run it down by gravity. how it looks today.. all that remains of the canal bridge on the left. and the bridge over hawthorne road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 this is the only photo Ive ever seen of the area, from the 1930s, although I have seen a better res copy than this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 There are a few survivors but I haven't got round to any of them yet, one at Errwood (mid wales) externally restored, one a bit nearer at Embsay but I think it's in rather bad condition. There's one at Peak Rail which I have looked at but it has been rebilt as a Vanguard so it's all Thomas Hill above the frames. I have been told that all these should be essentially the same as the LMS ones but measuring the frame of the Peak rail one doesn't tally with the LMS or SR weight diagrams (Southern railway had a couple of these as well). I've never been ableto locate any Fowler drawings. If anyone can offer any assistance with these 150hp Fowlers, or point me in the direction of any more examples I would be very grateful - and the kit would be a bit closer to production. Michael Edge I was mistaken I thought I had bought Chris's one from him but it was something else so he must still have it will ask him what make the kit was, unless anyone has an idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 just thinking is there any mention of this branch in the sectional appendix? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 can see the gasworks in the centre here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 26, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2011 just thinking is there any mention of this branch in the sectional appendix? I have 1931, 1937 and 1960 (and others), I will try and take a look later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 26, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2011 Many gas works had two connections to get in, especially if there was more than one pre-grouping company in the vicinity. Sometimes they were both capable of serving the works, but others just connected for tar tanks or other chemical by-product plants. Did this one have anything of this sort? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 thanks Dave, appreciate that. this only had the one line accessing it, a later branch from the Midland line. originally it was served by the Leeds Liverpool canal, but Im not sure when that finished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 can see the gasworks in the centre here So the Luftwaffe knew all about the gasworks then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 a bomb did drop on it but didnt explode luckily http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=conMediaFile.18791 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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