Strangers under the wires?

[Andy Y]

For most of its energised life the Woodhead was a two-trick pony although I recall seeing and seeing pictures of 25s, 37s, 40s, 47s and Peaks over the years.

 

Some time ago I saw a snippet on David Heys website - http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page3.htm as follows:

 

The 1969-70 Football season saw Manchester United playing Leeds United in an FA semi-final at Hillsborough, Sheffield on 14th March 1970. BR routed six specials for Manchester fans via the Woodhead line hauled by a Class 50 No D414, a 'Peak' class, a pair of Class 25s and three Class 40s including No D235 Apapa

 

The 50 was certainly a surprise to me so I wondered if anyone had any other knowledge of oddities under the wires?

[eastwestdivide]

The 50 was certainly a surprise to me so I wondered if anyone had any other knowledge of oddities under the wires?

For a while in the early 80s, probably before and after, there was a pair of Sunday St Pancras-Sheffield-Manchester trains which from time to time were routed via Woodhead for engineering work on the Hope Valley. Peaks (45/1) plus Mk1s when I caught them.

Think I mentioned them in another thread before. They were extremely susceptible to interesting diversions.

 

Edit: they were mentioned in page 1 of this thread, posts 5 and 6

[great central]

I've seen several photos, don't ask me where though, taken in the 50s and 60s of steam locos being dragged by an electric loco on their way to or from Gorton works. As many of the ex GC locos still went to Gorton for overhaul it's not surprising really.

When Mike Wild took the photos for Hornby mag I had 26055 towing a very dirty 63770, although I think he cropped the photo and lost the steamer, can't lay hands on the mag at the moment.

[Poggy1165]

Depends how you define the 'Woodhead Route'.

 

Between Manchester and Glossop/Hadfield there was still quite a lot of steam to be seen, certainly in the early 60s. For example there was a pilot engine at Glossop (in early days a J11, later a 4F) that I think was also used to work the Waterside branch (which was never electrified.) Lots of steam worked to Dewsnap yard, and out of it towards Macclesfield, while more steam was seen around Godley, where electrics handed the CLC traffic over to steam.

 

Between Manchester and Hyde Junction you'd also see DMUs working to Macclesfield (mainly). These were original Derby types at first, then various.

[Trevor H]

The 50 was certainly a surprise to me so I wondered if anyone had any other knowledge of oddities under the wires?

I have a picture of D414 on that occasion near Dunford East, It was taken from the web a while ago, but can't remember where. I guess when the FA Cup semi finals were played at Hillsborough, that their are probably quite a few occasions when specials were run across from the other side of the Pennines.

 

Some pre TOPS noting's, on occasions class 20s, both single and double headed would work up to Dunford, been noted in the late 60s/early 70s. AL3's (class 83) were also towed by EM1's en-route too or from Doncaster Works.

 

During 1968 when the EM2's were put into store, they experimented trials with Hadfield units across the route, on the feasibility of running Manchester/Penistone services to link with Penistone/Sheffield dmu services, but I don't know any more on this.

[Andy Y]

Thanks Trevor, I'd be interested to see that snap of D414 if you ever come across it again on the web. I've never seen a snap of 25kV's being dragged; interesting.

[MarkC]

I remember being hauled over Woodhead in the late 70s behind a brace of 24s. It was an excursion from Liverpool to Loughborough, iirc

 

Mark

[beast66606]

I used to travel to Sheffield and back quite a lot during 1979/80, several times the Sunday journey was over the Woodhead, I remember being hauled by a 40 and also a Trans Pennine set, iirc I photographed a TP coming the other way, through the front of the one I was travelling on. The 40 journey was used to photograph the signal boxes

 

I must dig out my photos of the Woodhead and Guide Bridge one day ..

[Andy Y]

I must dig out my photos of the Woodhead and Guide Bridge one day ..

 

Yes please!

 

It's a regret that mine are lost in the mists of time, grainy B&W snaps from a Zenit EM in murky weather processed in dad's darkroom (the larder). Nah, it's probably as well they're lost.

[Redkiterail]

how about some southern with a spoon on Robert Carroll flickr stie see link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5734961662/in/photostream

[robertcwp]

how about some southern with a spoon on Robert Carroll flickr stie see link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5734961662/in/photostream

There are some Woodhead images in my collection - in the Great Central set.

[Chris Higgs]

I used to travel to Sheffield and back quite a lot during 1979/80, several times the Sunday journey was over the Woodhead, I remember being hauled by a 40 and also a Trans Pennine set, iirc I photographed a TP coming the other way, through the front of the one I was travelling on. The 40 journey was used to photograph the signal boxes

 

I must dig out my photos of the Woodhead and Guide Bridge one day ..

 

Yep, I remember making a trip up specially from Oxford to travel Picadilly - Sheffield (reversing in the remains of Victoria to get back into Midland) and back in what must have been 1980. Trans-Pennine unit both ways.

 

The trip was also memorable for long delays sitting in Crewe on the way back. Train was over 2 hours late by the time we reached Stafford, at which point the guard announced he had received a new running schedule, so we were now on time!

 

Chris

[Chris Higgs]

Yep, I remember making a trip up specially from Oxford to travel Picadilly - Sheffield (reversing in the remains of Victoria to get back into Midland) and back in what must have been 1980. Trans-Pennine unit both ways.

 

I dug out the photos of that day. Here you will find the most awful photo, buts it definitely a Peak, and definitely on Woodhead.

 

 

and here is some scenery

 

 

the view off DInting viaduct

 

 

and the Trans-Pennine unit - complete with Oxford University Railway Society headboard

 

 

Chris

[DaveF]

Perhaps not oddities but here are a couple I photographed at Ardwick - in those long ago student days!

 

 

 

Do dmus count?

 

 

Edit - it's a Class 100 - Many thanks Chris for telling me - I must learn to double check my notes.

David

[Chris Higgs]

Do dmus count?

 

Certainly a characteristic part of the Manchester scene. But that's a Class 100, not a 104.

 

Chris

[298]

The Great Western Society's coaches appeared on a Railtour sometime in the late 70's. I once had a quick trawl of SixBells but couldn't find it.

 

We've dragged an ex-class 84 Loadbank around on Deepcar, but to date no other AC electrics.

[Leicester Thumper]

The trans-pennine sets are interesting, I would have never thought of them travelling over the woodhead....

 

EDIT: were the sets frequent visitors or were they just spontaneous visitors?

[Gwiwer]

For a while in the early 80s, probably before and after, there was a pair of Sunday St Pancras-Sheffield-Manchester trains which from time to time were routed via Woodhead for engineering work on the Hope Valley. Peaks (45/1) plus Mk1s when I caught them.

Think I mentioned them in another thread before. They were extremely susceptible to interesting diversions.

 

Edit: they were mentioned in page 1 of this thread, posts 5 and 6

 

 

08.00 SuO St. Pancras - Manchester Piccadilly. I travelled on that a few times as the one thing you could be fairly sure of was that it wasn't exactly going via the MML! Usually via Sharnbrook freight lines, twice via Corby and the "Ponderosa" reversing at Leicester, then once via Barrow Hill as well and into Sheffield from Nunnery before being pushed back up the hill and over Woodhead to Manchester. On another occasion it was booked via Woodhead but allegedly no driver was available who signed that road. After sitting in Sheffield (Midland) while thumbs were sucked (and the Hope Valley remained firmly closed) we were sent via Barnsley and Woodhead.

 

Traction was always a 45 and always the same loco throughout no matter how many run-rounds were required.

[The Stationmaster]

A long time ago I travelled on the infamous 'midnight' sleeper from Marylebone to Manchester Piccadilly (infamous because at one time it was shown in the public timetable as departing Marylebone at, well, midnight - so which day did it leave on? (I believe the WTT time was something like 12.01a.m.). No chance of a berth, it was heavily booked for the night of Maundy Thursday, but at least I got a reserved seat - and a compartment full of matelots just paid-off from a frigate in Chatham and mostly so drunk they were happy to giveaway rum to someone even younger than them.

 

But even if it was the middle of the night it was a trip up the GC, from end-to-end and the promise of an EM2 over the top. But it was not to be - our wreck of a loco from Marylebone spent 45 minutes at Aylesbury throwing out most of the fire and trying again - it came off at Woodford to be replaced by a Black Five. But horror - the Black Five was removed at Leicester and replaced by an EE Type 4; and then things got even worse as the bl*sted diesel worked right through to Manchester. So my sole acquaintance with Woodhead electrics over the years was restricted to Manchester Piccadilly and Sheffield's better station when making trips to and from York via 'the cheapest route' (which was always tremendously impressive when it came to underlinings in the Eastern Region ABC).

 

So the oddball over Woodhead was an EE Type 4 way back in the first half of the 1960s, on a train 'conveying sleeping cars'.

[Andy Y]

It may be my imagination (or even inebriation) but I'm sure this photo from Chris Higgs is back to front.

 

Well spotted. The church is on the left as you head from Mottram to Glossop.

 

 

 

[dave076]

When you look at it and do some research (well google) a surprising large number of BR classes visited Woodhead metals. Whilst some of them were in the after DC era , it would also depend on how far you want to stretch your defination of woodhead.

 

Here what Ive seen photographic evidence of.

 

 

 

Obvious ones

08,13,20, 24,25,31,37,40,45,47,56.

 

More unexpected

 

 

09 Sheffield area in the 90s

23, 55 ran new to Doncater from Vulcan Works.

33 Manchester Pic - cardiff trains in the 90 (can we stretch woodhead to platform 9 at picc!!)

35 Hymeks ran new from Beyer Peacock to WR over Woodhead

44 farewell railtours.

46 Struggled to find this one but some where on the internet is a picture of "the 46" 46026 running light through Dunford in 1981

50 the photo above is I believe from a chap called robin lush, also worked MGRs to Godley Junc.

58 toton - ashburys yard

 

83, 84 as mentioned hauled to doncaster for refurb.

86 as pictured

 

87 seen at Reddish depot for rectification work in the 1970s

 

which I suppose leaves 17,21/29, 26, 27, 41,42/43,52

 

Apparently some 17s spent time allocated to Barrow hill could we have one on a freight to Tinsley !!!!

I seen a pict of a 27 on the GCR mainline in notts but thats defo stretching it

Any extra information welcome

[bingley hall]

I've no idea where I got this image from - it is dated 14th March 1970 at Torside. If the owner wants to identify themselves? Obviously, if you're not happy with it being on here, delete it.

 

 

As someone has already mentioned pic is by Robin Lush. Appears on p25 of Diesels in the Pennines - image shown on here is a slightly better scan and not taken from the book. p24 has a pair of 25s (D7595/D7597) on one of the footex on the same day passing Torside LX.

[dave076]

Slightly off topic

 

Looks very cold at Torside on that day, theres snow on the hils.

 

D414 has no steam heating capacity being ETH only.

 

Would the Mk1s on the Footex have ETH???

[TheSignalEngineer]

Slightly off topic

 

Looks very cold at Torside on that day, theres snow on the hils.

 

D414 has no steam heating capacity being ETH only.

 

Would the Mk1s on the Footex have ETH???

Probably, as there was still a lot of Mk1 stock on West Coast after electrification, largely on trains via Birmingham to Liverpool and Manchester, and even some LMS-designed Portholes.

[eastwestdivide]

Not necessarily strangers under the wires, but I found a couple of my passenger journeys under the wires, on Sunday diversions.

 

All timings are passing times unless there's an a for arrive or d for depart.

 

Sun 23 Nov 1980

Caught the St Pancras-Manchester train from Leicester, with 47542 and Mk1s*.

Sheffield Midland d 1247

Nunnery Sidings a 1251/run round/d 1304

Penistone 1327

Woodhead tunnel E portal 1338½

Woodhead tunnel W portal 1343

Manchester Piccadilly a 1409

 

returning on a 6-car DMU, 5 of which were 59821 59768 51961 56473 51275, i.e. a Transpennine/Intercity unit (cl123/124 hybrid?)and a Cravens 2-car.

Manchester Picc d 1748

Woodhead tunnel W portal 1819½

Woodhead tunnel E portal 1823½

Nunnery Sidings a 1850½/reverse/ d 1854½

Sheffield Midland 1858½

 

Sun 8 Feb 1981

Again from Leicester on the Sunday St Pancras-Manchester train with 45103 and Mk1s*. 45103 was removed at Sheffield, from where where we were pulled by 45015, with 47215 on the back, up to Nunnery, where 45015 was detached for 47215 to take us through to Manchester.

Sheffield Midland d 1247

Nunnery Sidings a 1253/reverse/d 1259

Sheffield Victoria 1303

Penistone 1319

Woodhead tunnel E portal 1327½

Woodhead tunnel W portal 1331½

Guide Bridge station 1350½

Manchester Piccadilly a 1358

 

return was via the Hope Valley this time, in a Transpennine/Intercity set including 52093 (don't know the rest of the formation)

Manchester Piccadilly d 1649½

New Mills Central a 1708½ / d 1710½

Sheffield a 1747

 

Don't know what the speed restrictions were like at the time, but the best end-to-end of 55 mins Sheffield Victoria-Manchester Picc (on what was basically a freight line by then) compares OK with the 58 mins coming back via Hope with a stop at New Mills. However, the reversal at Nunnery into the rest of the rail network adds a good 10-15 mins to the time.

Today's TransPennine Express timing via Stockport is 51 mins.

 

 

*Those Mk1s - there were probably 3 or 6 of them from memory - the St Pancras-Manchester Sunday train used part of a set of 9 Mk1s which during the week was used on the once every 2 hours stopping service between Derby and St Pancras. That set was formed with three brake vehicles, typically spread out as vehicles 2, 5 and 8 in the train.

EDIT: probably 6xMk1s - just found a later note Sun 28 June 1981, where the train was:

45145 + 4798, 35124, 25798, 24441, 21248, 25997

Although I didn't catch it that time.