Xerces Fobe2 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Below is an e-mail I received from Leonie Dubois, Consultation Manager the of Croxley Rail Link on the 17th May "Invitation to Public Exhibitions In February 2011 Croxley Rail Link was admitted to the development pool of schemes seeking funding from the Department for Transport. Since the announcement the project has been developing its proposals, working towards the submission of the ‘Best and Final Bid’ for funding in September 2011 and the Transport and Works Act Order anticipated for November 2011. Prior to those submissions the project needs to consult widely on the proposals allowing for the feedback to be assessed and included in the design process where applicable. We are pleased to announce the Croxley Rail Link project will be holding a series of public exhibitions which will provide more information to local community, businesses and stakeholders about this exciting project. The details of the exhibitions are Unit 17, Charter Place Shopping Centre, Watford, WD17 2RU (formerly Hi-Fi City unit) on: Thursday 26th May 12.00 pm - 8.00 pm Friday 27th May 10.00 am - 5.00 pm Saturday 28th May 11.00 am - 4.00 pm. St Oswald’s Church Hall, 17 Malvern Way Croxley Green, WD3 3QL on: Wednesday 1st June 12.00 pm - 8.00 pm All of the exhibitions will contain the same information and individuals are welcome to attend any of them. The Croxley Rail Link project is committed to working with the local community, businesses and stakeholders. The formal consultation period is due to end on 18th August 2011 and further information sessions will be undertaken with stakeholders to ensure engagement with the project. The project www.croxleyraillink.com provides more information about the scheme." I certainly will pay the exhibition a visit Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 I went to the Public Exhibition in Watford today and it was well worth this visit. A well versed team from the project who were happy to talk about all aspects of the proposed link and a lot of interest members of the public some of which were railway definitely railway enthusiasts. There was a large screen with a computer simulation of the proposed link numerous display boards emphasising the many aspects and advantages of the scheme. Some of the issues regarding project - The closure of Watford Met station ( it might be kept as a stabling point for empty stock it is one of the options) The fact that that Watford Met is in Zone 6 and Watford Junction is in Zone 7 and the potential associated increase in fares Where to stable the stock - it looks like there will still be only 4 DC platforms at Watford as the potential 5th " has a lot of signalling equipment in the track bed which would need to be re-sited for which currently there is no budget". I did suggest they rebuilt a depot on the land were the former BR depot was but again there is no budget – Croxley Wiggenhall Road Met Depot!!! The Met S stock is equipped with moving bock signalling and will share the tracks from Watford High Street junction to Watford Junction with the Overground which is fixed block! The full budget for the project has not yet being approved - the go/no go decision will be later this year The proposed new viaduct from the Met line to the former Croxley Green branch has been redesigned and looks far more aesthetically pleasing than the previous versions. One of the reasons the old Watford West station will not re-open is because it is on a gradient and does not comply with the current operation and safety requirements There will be 2 new stations Ascot Road near the old Croxley Green station and Watford Health Campus which will also serve the Watford FC football stadium. More information about this project can be found at www.croxleyrailink.com Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 3D flythrough of the proposed route is now live of the Croxley Rail Link site http://www.croxleyra...flythrough.aspx XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chris116 Posted September 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2011 I went to the Public Exhibition in Watford today and it was well worth this visit. A well versed team from the project who were happy to talk about all aspects of the proposed link and a lot of interest members of the public some of which were railway definitely railway enthusiasts. There was a large screen with a computer simulation of the proposed link numerous display boards emphasising the many aspects and advantages of the scheme. Some of the issues regarding project - The fact that that Watford Met is in Zone 6 and Watford Junction is in Zone 7 and the potential associated increase in fares More information about this project can be found at www.croxleyrailink.com Xerces Fobe I hate to say it but the team are not as well versed as they may be if they believe what is quoted above. Watford Met is in zone 7 not zone 6 and Watford Junction is zone W and not zone 7. Yes there will be fare increases but they have made it appear that it is a one zone difference when it is in fact a two zone difference! It may only be a very small detail but after seeing that you have to wonder what other facts they are putting forward that are not quite true! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 I hate to say it but the team are not as well versed as they may be if they believe what is quoted above. Watford Met is in zone 7 not zone 6 and Watford Junction is zone W and not zone 7. Yes there will be fare increases but they have made it appear that it is a one zone difference when it is in fact a two zone difference! It may only be a very small detail but after seeing that you have to wonder what other facts they are putting forward that are not quite true! Chris Hi Chris, You are correct I made mistake in my earlier post. I am aware of this issue and it was raised by a number of people at the Public Exhibition in Watford. It appears that the reason for Watford Junction being in a different zone is that London Midland serves Watford Junction and this caused issues potentially different fares on the Overground. Now that Bushey is going to have an enhanced London Midland service it will be interesting to see how the Watford zone issue pans out. Nigel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2011 Hi Chris, You are correct I made mistake in my earlier post. I am aware of this issue and it was raised by a number of people at the Public Exhibition in Watford. It appears that the reason for Watford Junction being in a different zone is that London Midland serves Watford Junction and this caused issues potentially different fares on the Overground. Now that Bushey is going to have an enhanced London Midland service it will be interesting to see how the Watford zone issue pans out. Nigel. IIRC the main obstacle regarding Watford Junction was not London Midland but rather the fact that Virgin trains call there and they were the ones resisting any changes to the current method of fare divison in place. Its worth remembering that of the ex InterCity opperations, West coast was one of only two route to have their first / last stop so close to London (Anglia services calling at Stratford was the other one but that was deffintley in the zonal fare area from the begining). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2011 Its worth remembering that of the ex InterCity opperations, West coast was one of only two route to have their first / last stop so close to London It is hard to think of a situation in which the two main TOCs serving a station are so diametrically opposed in their needs. Virgin would like a nice big car park so their customers can drive round M25 and join trains to the Midlands, North West and Scotland at any time of day. There is already substantial parking, but the last thing the incumbent TOC - now London Midland presumably - wants is more parking so his present customers from Hemel, Berko or Milton Keynes can drive to Watford and save on their season ticket costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ah well, that's Virgin for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I thought that most if not all Virgin services did not stop at Watford Junction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Would it not be sensible to build an "M 25 Parkway" station with the parking, and then the Virgin trains would not need to stop at Watford? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2011 Would it not be sensible to build an "M 25 Parkway" station with the parking, and then the Virgin trains would not need to stop at Watford? But where to build it? The M25 is within a very few miles of Watford. Land here is worth a fortune, and car parks cannot yield enough return in prime commuter-belt. Furthermore, while most Virgin trains don't call there, if any more stopped, at Watford or a new station, it would reduce line capacity, which is already critical, which is why most don't call...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 But where to build it? The M25 is within a very few miles of Watford. Land here is worth a fortune, and car parks cannot yield enough return in prime commuter-belt. Furthermore, while most Virgin trains don't call there, if any more stopped, at Watford or a new station, it would reduce line capacity, which is already critical, which is why most don't call...... Leavesden Aerodrome is ideally located it could have Met and the Overground serving it and also be used as a freight hub ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 If you charge a large amount for parking with little or no discount for regular users then the car park becomes attractive only to long-distance passengers. So London Midland can probably solve some of their problems by making sure that their own stations offer reasonable parking rates for season ticket holders. They have no control over the parking charges at Watford, but it is pretty steep at most in-town intercity railheads. This would also probably minimise overall car usage, with people driving to the more distant station only when necessary to catch a long-distance train, but may hit some part of LM's bottom line! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 Leavesden Aerodrome is ideally located it could have Met and the Overground serving it and also be used as a freight hub ! Leavesden was looked at more than a decade ago, and the realities of WCML track occupancy, even on the slow lines, prevented real progress. I greatly doubt that has changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I received the update below on this project today- "As you may be aware Croxley Rail Link is the proposed diversion of the Watford branch of the Metropolitan line to Watford Junction via the former Croxley Green branch line. The scheme involves the construction of a new viaduct and two new stations, at Ascot Road & Vicarage Road. The link will also connect with Watford High Street station. As part of the proposals the existing Watford Metropolitan line terminus station will close to passenger services. We are close to finalising our designs for the Croxley Rail Link scheme. Six new fact sheets will be available to download from 14th November 2011 via our website www.croxleyraillink.com. The contain information on • Consultation Feedback • Response to Key Issues • Environmental Assessment • Funding Update • Next Steps • Scheme Plan If you would like to talk to a member of the project team about the specific proposals we are holding a series of drop in sessions. Please see below for details. 16th November 2011, 1pm–8pm 17th November 2011, 1pm-8pm Explore Church Watford Museum Fuller Way 194 Lower High Street Croxley Green Watford WD3 3PJ WD17 2DT 22nd November 2011, 5pm-8.30pm 24th November 2011, 5pm-8.30pm Laurence Haines School Watford Grammar School Vicarage Rd Rickmansworth Rd Watford Watford WD18 0DD WD18 7JF Alternatively you can contact the consultation team by: Free phone E-mail Address 0800 6125240 info@croxleyraillink.com 4th Floor 209-215 Blackfriars Road London SE1 8NL" XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 This would be a very useful link from North Harrow to Watford and I'm pleased that it has got this far. The roads from Harrow to Watford are a real pain at the weekend/peak periods and direct line to High Street/Junction is needed. This project should solve most of the issues. For those who don't know, Watford already lies outside the London travel card zones and I'm not all sure that Hertfordshire permits travel cards to be used within the county. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 As much as i support this project the Harrow issue always troubles me a little in that why would I go to Watford Junction via the Met when I can go to Harrow & Wealdstone and get a fast train to Watford Junction? I appreciate that the big picture for this project brings numerous benefits and this is just one these querks that occur in many other rail locations especially in and around London. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 As much as i support this project the Harrow issue always troubles me a little in that why would I go to Watford Junction via the Met when I can go to Harrow & Wealdstone and get a fast train to Watford Junction? I appreciate that the big picture for this project brings numerous benefits and this is just one these querks that occur in many other rail locations especially in and around London. XF Well, for me to get to Harrow & Wealdstone requires two buses or a 25 minute walk, but North Harrow station is only ten minutes walk away. I suppose it's all down to where you live in the borough. Watford High Street is only six and a bit miles away by road from our house, but it can be a serious issue to get there. The roads are inadequate, and there is now only one bus from Harrow to Watford as the 'Hopper' which took in North Harrow and Carpenders Park was withdrawn about ten years ago because Hertfordshire refused to subsidise it. This link will be very useful, but I will have think about where to get cheaper petrol and Tesco Watford is, by a long way, the cheapest in the area and well worth a visit to fill up! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2011 We are close to finalising our designs for the Croxley Rail Link scheme. About time too. I did some work on this while in local government more than 15 years ago. We Brits are very slow when it comes to this type of scheme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adanapress Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Does anyone know if they are to re-instate the third side of the triangle at Wiggenhall Road? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2011 About time too. I did some work on this while in local government more than 15 years ago. We Brits are very slow when it comes to this type of scheme. Only 15 years ago? I went out to review the Outline Project Specification for the signalling before the Willesden Suburban SSI scheme was commissioned. That happened 23 years ago next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Does anyone know if they are to re-instate the third side of the triangle at Wiggenhall Road? No, the link will be from the old branch towards Watford Junction only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Does anyone know if they are to re-instate the third side of the triangle at Wiggenhall Road? The bridge is gone and I think the trackbed cleared as its a business park now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Does anyone know if they are to re-instate the third side of the triangle at Wiggenhall Road? There are no plans as yet, however it would be possible to reinstate the link from Colne Jctn to Croxley Greem Jctn as no structutes have being built on the former track bed, however a new bridge across Woggenhall Road would be required. Below is a photo which I took this in July this year of where the bridge for the orginal line used to be XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2011 Looking at the bigger picture Watford (Met.) has never been under pressure of use; it is one of the quieter stations on the line and is in something of a backwater for serving Watford. Linking that stub to Watford Junction will be a significant link in the overall public transport network, as opposed to the "keeping things separate" mentality which prevailed for far too long and often to the detriment of paying passengers and operators alike. Two new stations better situated to serve current needs would generate traffic in both directions. To and from Junction as well as the existing Met. stations towards Harrow and central London. London traffic to and from the Junction may well use the LM or VT services based upon speed but the Met. / LU is about far more than just A to B; it is about all parts of a network to every other. The fares issue should be resolved by negotiation and should not be allowed to become a stumbling block upon which a project flounders. If agreement cannot be reached when the link opens then the service should operate in the same way as the Overground does now namely with unique fares to and from Watford Junction but with Travelcard zonal fares applied to the LU stations. Customer pressure may then bring about change soon enough. It did with the Epping, Amersham and Chesham lines and can do with Watford Junction as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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