What happened to Crownline?

[sjp23480]

Does anyone know what happened to Crownline? As far as I can ascertain, they are no longer in business.

 

If they are no longer trading, does anyone know if another vendor now produces their product range?

 

Many thanks,

 

Stephen

[2ManySpams]

Must have ceased trading about 15 years ago (at least). One of the party (Dave King (see post below)) now trades as PDK kits. My link

[steve1]

Dave King sold the business many years ago to someone who (allegdly) turned out to be, shall we say, very unreliable. The range hasn't been trraded in years.

 

steve

[sjp23480]

Thanks guys - looks like I shall be watching ebay for the next few weeks

[great central]

Dave King sold the business many years ago to someone who (allegdly) turned out to be, shall we say, very unreliable. The range hasn't been trraded in years.

 

steve

 

I recall someone telling me severeal years ago that a large amount of the stock was 'found' in an industrial unit when the owners repossessed the place after non-payment of rent.

Must point out this was some time after Dave King sold the business.

[Horsetan]

I recall someone telling me severeal years ago that a large amount of the stock was 'found' in an industrial unit when the owners repossessed the place after non-payment of rent.

Must point out this was some time after Dave King sold the business.

 

Lots of shenanigans here - some entertaining, some not.

[Carnforth]

Mornin'

I remember this happening just as Crownline were expanding into complete kits with resin boilers as well as their useful range of detailing parts which must have spawned many a kit-builder. It appears however that Dave has retained at least some of the tooling/stock from the subsequent owner, as the Ivatt Cl4 mogul from his gallery is identical as far as I can tell,with the possible change of material for the chassis, ( brass to nickel silver, it appears ) to the two kits I bought from him just prior to the sale.

Steve

[Horsetan]

....It appears however that Dave has retained at least some of the tooling/stock from the subsequent owner....

 

...and, I think, the artwork draughtsman Paul Hill. You'll find his signature on quite a lot of Crownline / PDK etchings.

[CUTLER2579]

Lots of comments about Dave selling the business which is not quite right because to sell something you need to receive payment. It is my understanding that Dave was never paid. I do know for a fact that after aquiring the stock from Dave the new "Owner" did actually do one exibition at St Albans in the January and to say he seemed out of his depth would be an understatement. I think he realised he had bitten off more than he could chew and decided to bail out. Dave then proceeded with Sheila and employing Paul Hill to start up again as PDK and that is still the situation, some 10 -15 years down the line so to speak. I have known Dave for some (35-40 years) and always find him jolly and happy and a very genuine man. I once made a comment elsewhere that Shiela was far too good for him, as I had often said to his face with Shiela present as a joke ,but it wwas not published for fear of upsetting Dave, the editor obviously does not know Dave very well for the only thing it might have done was cause him to laugh.

Regards.

[Horsetan]

Lots of comments about Dave selling the business which is not quite right because to sell something you need to receive payment. It is my understanding that Dave was never paid. I do know for a fact that after aquiring the stock from Dave the new "Owner" did actually do one exibition at St Albans in the January and to say he seemed out of his depth would be an understatement. I think he realised he had bitten off more than he could chew and decided to bail out.

 

The name Peter Hughes has come back to me. It wasn't just St. Albans, though. I'm sure I saw the stand once at Leatherhead (not the Scaleforum show).

 

Intriguingly, the trays of individual Crownline detailing parts (not the kits) later came into the possession of Mike Russell (DMR), and were available for sale at one of the NESCOT (Epsom) shows, before disappearing again after. Pure luck I bought some!

 

.....I once made a comment elsewhere that Sheila was far too good for him, as I had often said to his face with Sheila present as a joke, but it was not published for fear of upsetting Dave....

 

Dave plays the bagpipes, so I don't think he'd be too worried!

[Butler Henderson]

The new Crownline owner appeared at Doncaster and Nottingham as well. I recall him bemoaning at Nottm the lack of custom at Doncaster (probably due to a three quarters empty stand IIRC). Certainly some of the Crownline parts were crude and also unuseable without replacement or modification, I recall the 2 2-6-2T conversion for the Hornby Ivatt 2-6-0 having white metal slide bars that simply bent when the chassis tried to move amd an etched replacement valve gear for A3s etc which had a connecting link too long such that it would bash into the cylinders. Too often the one good bit was only available in a pack of parts and as RTR models improved then it was likely to struggle in any event.

[Horsetan]

.....I recall the 2 2-6-2T conversion for the Hornby Ivatt 2-6-0 having white metal slide bars that simply bent.....

 

Still have a sample of that in one of my drawers!

[Etched Pixels]

Well I can't really fill in all the gaps but post reposession at least some of the tooling survived. Nothing electronic and no instruction masters - I suspect the paper all got pupled and anything electronic would have been wiped when they flogged anything that looked like a computer at the bankrupcy sale post reposession. The moulds, etch drawings and all the relevant rights did get flogged off and not lost thankfully.

 

And thus tthe rights and various moulds for some of the white metal bits have wandered their way around accompanied by those for some of the original etching artwork (on paper in white/red/blue/back at 4:1 and 7.4:1 x size intended for good old fashion photo reducing with filters) and as of this weekend they arrived in my cellar. Of course all the indexes to what is what didn't so I have in my hands something of the order of sixty white metal moulds most of which contain helpful labels like "X14/2" plus a lot of old pre computing artwork (and very nice artwork it is) that is considerably bigger than a desktop scanner.

 

Alan

[PH462]

Most of what is posted here is mostly correct. We have pretty much retooled all the kits and brought them up to date and are continuing to bring out new kits. Sheila and Dave are going strong and in reasonable health. One small corection, the web link for our website (above) is wrong, that site has been out of use for some time. Our website is now www.pdkmodels.co.uk

 

Paul Hill (PDK)

[Adam1701D]

I wonder if any of their short-lived N Gauge stuff survived? I once converted a Minitrix 9F into a reasonable looking Crosti using a Crownline conversion and this would have a lot of potential to be re-jigged for the new Dapol version.

[Etched Pixels]

I've not found any of the N bits yet - but its going to take a fair bit of investigation to figure out what is what, and also which bits are worth spinning out of the original moulds into a new mould or two of useful bits and pieces that are not otherwise available. I did see the OO moulds for the Crosti as they all got unloaded.

 

However its white metal - unlike modern 3D print or digital etch artwork you can't grab the corners and resize it so I doubt that it would match the Dapol 9F anyway.

 

Alan

[RedgateModels]

Alan, if you can resurrect a Crosti conversion kit it would be well received I would expect, especially as Hornby are knocking out Railroad Evening Stars at just over 50 quid!

 

Chris at Golden Arrow night not be too pleased though ....

[Horsetan]

Most of what is posted here is mostly correct. We have pretty much retooled all the kits and brought them up to date and are continuing to bring out new kits. Sheila and Dave are going strong and in reasonable health. One small corection, the web link for our website (above) is wrong, that site has been out of use for some time. Our website is now www.pdkmodels.co.uk

 

Paul Hill (PDK)

 

Paul:

 

Slightly off-topic, but would you know what happened to John S. Marriage, the other fella who did etch work for Crownline? I've still got those lovely etchings he designed for the conversion of the Hornby "County" 4-4-0 into "City of Truro", and I always wondered what became of him.....

[PH462]

I'm afraid i don't know what happened to John Marriage, he did artwork for us until about 4 or 5 years before Crownline was sold and we lost contact sometime after. The City Of Truro conversion was a beauty though.

 

Paul Hill

[Horsetan]

.... The City Of Truro conversion was a beauty though.

 

It is a work of art, and the footplate etching requires not too much work to turn it into a proper scale "City", which is great!

[2ManySpams]

In my teens I used to love visiting shows just to spend time wading through all the conversion kits and parts for adding to my (then) LMS models. The etchings were always particularly good (not matched by my soldering skills then!) but the whitemetal castings a bit on the variable side. I still have a 1/2 complete conversion kit for a Stanier Princess - the 3 new firebox castings were all different lengths and were a real pig to get right.

 

With my modelling love now being all things Southern it would be great to have the Crownline stand back....oh to have bits such as the extra long smoke deflectors for Bude, cylinder drain cock etches for the airsmoothed spams or the parts to do some of the stranger smoke deflection experiments carried out on the MN and WC / BoB locos! Mind you at the moment I'd settle for a casting of a double chimney for a BR Std 4 4-6-0...

[Horsetan]

In my teens I used to love visiting shows just to spend time wading through all the conversion kits and parts for adding to my (then) LMS models. The etchings were always particularly good (not matched by my soldering skills then!) but the whitemetal castings a bit on the variable side. I still have a 1/2 complete conversion kit for a Stanier Princess - the 3 new firebox castings were all different lengths and were a real pig to get right.

 

I collected some of the conversion kits because I thought they had potential to build as full or near-full kits by buying-in suitable extra parts, so I ended up eventually with

 

1 Peppercorn A1

2 x Ivatt "2" 2-6-2Ts

2 x Ivatt "2" 2-6-0s (one to be built as a BR Std.2)

1 "City of Truro" (which only needs the smokebox saddle position moved back by 2mm to turn into a proper scale "City")

2 Thompson B1s (Bill Bedford produced a full Diag. 100A boiler and cab etch, which teams up well with the Crownline etchings)

 

 

With my modelling love now being all things Southern it would be great to have the Crownline stand back....oh to have bits such as the extra long smoke deflectors for Bude, cylinder drain cock etches for the airsmoothed spams or the parts to do some of the stranger smoke deflection experiments carried out on the MN and WC / BoB locos! Mind you at the moment I'd settle for a casting of a double chimney for a BR Std 4 4-6-0...

 

Nowadays you need to approach kit manufacturers direct to see if they will provide castings, etc. separately. SEF's spare parts service is well-known, but separate parts are also available from:

 

David Geen (Malcolm Mitchell range) - for GW

Dave Bradwell - for selected NE/LNE

Mike Russell / DMR - various

 

247 Developments has a range of mainly whitemetal castings, which is fairly well-known

Craftsman Models are still around, and their detail parts are still available

 

Also don't forget the Albert Goodall range still exists for Bulleid Pacific detailing parts, but only available if you go to certain shows like Woking. However, the spray-painted and riveted(!) paper overlays which Albert used to offer to cover the Airfix / Dapol bodysides were withdrawn after his death.

[2ManySpams]

I collected some of the conversion kits because I thought they had potential to build as full or near-full kits by buying-in suitable extra parts, so I ended up eventually with

....

 

Nowadays you need to approach kit manufacturers direct to see if they will provide castings, etc. separately. SEF's spare parts service is well-known, but separate parts are also available from:

 

David Geen (Malcolm Mitchell range) - for GW

Dave Bradwell - for selected NE/LNE

Mike Russell / DMR - various

 

247 Developments has a range of mainly whitemetal castings, which is fairly well-known

Craftsman Models are still around, and their detail parts are still available

 

Also don't forget the Albert Goodall range still exists for Bulleid Pacific detailing parts, but only available if you go to certain shows like Woking. However, the spray-painted and riveted(!) paper overlays which Albert used to offer to cover the Airfix / Dapol bodysides were withdrawn after his death.

 

 

Thanks HT!

 

I've contacted all the traders you've mentioned and the likely kit producers for the specific parts I'm after but no luck I'm afraid. I did get a good supply of AG parts at an Uxbridge show a few years back but i don't beleive the drainc o c k s we're available. Still looking!

[RogerE]

This brings back memories. Back in the 1980s when I used to work at Northwick Park Hospital, I spent many happy lunchtime hours at Puffers in Kenton where Dave used to have his Crownline stuff, and John Redrupp was the finescale guy and Chris Parrish was, well Chris Parrish!

[micklner]

Dave Alexander has a good range of parts.