'CHARD Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 this is from a Liverpool DVD, just outside Halewood, the commentator says its heading to Bathgate, I imagine because its class 40 hauled rather than electric,although can never rely on that alone. its 1968 and the loco is D244 with a train of new mk1 escorts. Im guessing the 40 would come off at Carlisle? will have a look im my Eric Treacy books to see if he recorded any on the west coast mainline. Michael, what a fantastic find - those shots belong on the Waverley's Most Wanted thread. I have never before seen any indication (despite knowing it should be possible) that Escorts were worked over the route. Those are simply fantastic. And all the more reason for me to get those Carflats built. Need to research contemporary colours for the baby Fords. And get hold of trainload quantities. What else were the last new models to traverse the line I wonder? EDIT: those 40s worked the train throughout as Dave says. I've hordes of NW Division (Preston) EE Type 4s recorded as going all the way. But GSYP with Ford Escorts is about as frothy as it gets for this pundit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 glad its useful Mk1 escorts are one of my favourites, although they didnt make the sportier RS models at Halewood. quality of that cinefilm isnt very good, although it is better when played on a dvd player, however its the proof content as you say, there is plenty of shots of the wagons and escorts about. they are available as die cast now arnt they? little bit late for my period, tell tale sign of an earlier Halewood train would be that of Anglias and Corsairs. not sure if the corsair is available as die cast yet? my dad collected dozens of minix anglias to model one of these trains before the diecasts became available. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Mike, you and your dad are I think the first father/ son combo we've got in the Waverlite crew, so that's excellent in itself. Corsairs aren't available yet, and along with Anglias they are signature payload for the last steam-worked car expresses. I've accumulated sufficient Anglia vans* for a rake of eight carflats, plus sundry Cortinas, Transits and Anglia saloons, but Escorts are really my target market for the last few months of the line's existence. These trains are going to be pretty weighty by model standards! * EDIT: Anglia van was also known as the Ford Thames 307E. Manufacture ceased in November '67, but where - was the van built at Halewood too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Anglia vans at Halewood.. I think any other such as cortinas. thames and transits would be on a seperate train from London, ie dont think you'd see them mixed with anglias? theres a great clip at the end of the Brtitish transport film forward to first principles of an electric hauled train of about 22 bogies full of cortinas and zephyrs with the cars facing backwards. also found out the mystery of the pic I posted a few posts back of the zephyrs with the class 85, they where being reversed on Garston triangle as the cars where the wrong way round to be unloaded at Halewood. I wonder if any of the Dagenham to Bathgate trains the cars would be facing backwards aswel? Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Super photo, thanks for that. My uncle spent the latter part of his working life on the Ford lines at Halewood, from when it opened in 1963 (?) until his retirement in 1988 or thereabouts (my folks are Scousers in exile, you see). I hadn't thought about it until today, but vehicles he worked on would have been on the WR car expresses as long as they traversed the route. This has taken things to another dimension where the 'Cars' is concerned. I need to revisit some of the published photos to get my head around the context. B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 was it only the Halewood trains that went to Bathgate via the Waverley, or did Dagenham trains go the Bathgate too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 was it only the Halewood trains that went to Bathgate via the Waverley, or did Dagenham trains go the Bathgate too? Splitting your question and answering the first half only, the answer is 'No,' because certainly in Summer '68 there was a Kings Norton (Birmingham) - Bathgate flow as well. I suspect this was a BMC flow from Longbridge, albeit to its truck facility counterpart in the Central Belt. I'm attempting to find out the answer to part 2. and here are some ambiguous photos post '69: http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=28802 Dagenham ran via the East Coast, like this Brush 4 in '70? http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=28551 B6357 with a pair of B1s, Corsair and Anglia: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=29084 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I love that last shot. I was having a flick through all our books, one on class 40s by Murray Brown has a great colour pic by Derek Cross of a 40 on a car train at Dalyrmple jnc, whilst not the Waverley, its a very clear colour picture which could be useful for wagon painting weathering etc. also been flicking through our past n present books of the Waverley to try and learn about it, I can see the fascination with the line. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 We'll ge-e-e-t you... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 We'll ge-e-e-t you... Dave. Some invites have gone out today by PM Another, this time 1107, on 4E35: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=28837 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 While perusing some video last night I caught sight of an interesting working heading south behind 60041 in 1965. It was an uncommonly short consist with a van and steel open behind the loco, followed by six buff coloured ICI four wheel tanks and a 20T brake. I'd be interested to know more about the service and also how modellable the tanks would be. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 While perusing some video last night I caught sight of an interesting working heading south behind 60041 in 1965. It was an uncommonly short consist with a van and steel open behind the loco, followed by six buff coloured ICI four wheel tanks and a 20T brake. I'd be interested to know more about the service and also how modellable the tanks would be. Dave. Is it possible to point to a reference for the ICI tanks with any thing on Paul Bartlet's site? I have come across references to at least one rail served oil depot. You don't find much photographic evidence of any dedicated traffic. I reckon there must have been several regular services such as the one in your video. Another little known aspect. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I couldn't find an exact match Bernard. I'm quite sure they were buff in colour whereas all the chlorine tanks appear white with a yellow band. I remember the wagons appearing to have a longer wheelbase. I'll have another look tomorrow but I need to get to bed now. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Could the tank traffic be Anhydrous Ammonia from the ICI plant near Fleetwood (Burn Naze) to Scottish Agricultural Industries at Leith? Leith recieved supplies of liquid ammonia in white tanks from Teesside in later years; might this have been an earlier form of the traffic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 If so that would add to my 'theory' that EE Type 4s from the likes of Springs Branch may have handled a similar traffic, working throughout, after early '66. I stress this is only a supposition based on flimsy circumstantial evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Waverley Route Presflos. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=36030 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Waverley Route Presflos. http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=36030 Always dangerous to read too much into emulsions of that vintage, but some of them look to have the legendary yellow tinge in places Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Don't they just! That's one of the feistiest freight photos we've seen forra bit, IMHO. That it's a block working takes me to some naughty places in itself.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 . . . and the 64,000 dollar question: why is it reversing off the Border Counties stub? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Did it need to be looped (for whatever reason) and would have been foul if done in the up Riccarton station loop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Failed loco and left on the spur until a replacement could be brought in? V2 seems a bit over the top for the load. The interesting bit is what happens/takes over at Carlisle! A bit off route but Oxwellmains would make a good modern layout. Nuclear flasks, cement wagons and a host of industrial shunters in varying degrees of decay. Oh, and a rather large digger. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roygraham Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 With the loco leading going down the Counties with a V2 must have been a high risk strategy. If I'd been in Riccarton (S) box that day I'd have been happier with the Presflows being propelled. roygraham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Seems that's one working that's conjured its own conundrum wrapped in a Riccarton riddle... It's one of those operating mysteries that has the power to fascinate nearly 50 years after the event. PS: and Matt's new avatar is awesome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 3M45 with a GFYE Brush in charge, summing up the Waverley's last bread and butter arterial traffic. These are relatively new out-the-box Carflats I reckon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5734284466/in/set-72157626751054388 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It's 1964, and thanks to Derby Sulzers for this snippet: "Despite its declining importance the Waverley route gained a new train, the thrice weekly Kings Norton - Bathgate & return car carrier, diagrammed for Peaks, but occasionally worked by Saltley Type 2's. This train often carried as many as one hundred cars with a journey time of twelve hours. A car carrier working over the S&C early in December had several Vauxhall cars blown off the train as it crossed Ribblehead viaduct, the strong gales causing many other delays as well." I'll do an allocation analysis of the so far reported 43 Class 25s to traverse the Waverley Route over on my Best of British Haymarket Diesels blog at some early future stage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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