Borders Railway progress

[Chameleon]

Well, it seems that the Waverley route reopening is (sorta) finally underway. The transport minister cut the first sod in Galashiels, apparently bringing in a part of the bill that states "Once the project has been started the government is legally bound to complete it.

 

I'll STILL believe it when I see it.

Waverly route officially under way.

[fegguk]

I feared the worst when we were told an announcement was to be made. However it appears to be the case that we are to have trains again in 2014 and it will require an act of the Scottish parliament to stop it from happening.

 

There will be at least 2 elections before then, so I am not celebrating yet there are lot more shovels full to go before its finished.

['CHARD]

Well, well, well.... that certainly is great news, long awaited too

 

We won't be seeing a split-box Peak at Hawick any time soon, but right now I'm raising a virtual toast to the 25,000+ townsfolk and burghers of Newtongrange, Gorebridge, Stow and Gala who will be reconnected to the network. And a second glass in the hope that sense will eventually prevail, and the natural (and original 1876) terminus will be reached as a logical extension.

 

Time to plan one last winter trip to capture the vestiges of Heriot, Fountainhall, and the other familiar passing points that will be swept away forever as P-way fit for the 21st Century pokes its steel tendrils up the glen.

 

Thanks for the link, Happy Days!!!

[Hammer]

I feared the worst when we were told an announcement was to be made. However it appears to be the case that we are to have trains again in 2014 and it will require an act of the Scottish parliament to stop it from happening.

 

There will be at least 2 elections before then, so I am not celebrating yet there are lot more shovels full to go before its finished.

 

2? I'm only counting one of relevance and that's the 2011 Holyrood election. Short of ripping up the Scotland Act, there isn't anything Westminster can do about it. The only problems are budgetary really, and they'll find funds to keep the project going now it's started not least because Labour came up with the idea and now the SNP are pursuing it, so neither can back down on it without looking bloody stupid.

 

I swear continental drift is faster than this project! I just don't understand why they are dragging it out soooooooo much? Hell, they could have had it built and running by now.

Unless of course they don't really want to do it but don't want to look like they are reneiging on their promise (never stopped them before tho.)

 

Britain isn't exactly known for it's speed at building capital projects

['CHARD]

To the OP mainly - any chance we can change the title of this thread - first time I saw it I expected, naturally enough, for it to be Bachmann's announcement that they'll be releasing a Gloucester Class 100 DMU and Highland Class 24 in time for Easter

[fegguk]

I'm only counting one of relevance and that's the 2011 Holyrood election. Short of ripping up the Scotland Act,

 

I don't think we can completly ignor Westminster Elections this year. If the Tories get in the Scottsh Governments budget will not be immune from the axe. All the parties support the project even the tories grudgingly. The only objectors are the Borders Party who in opposing this investment in the Borders must look mad to outsiders.

 

I could go on but I dont want to get too party political.

 

A hung parliment could mean more elctions than we bargined for before 2014. At least by 2012 or so when works are well underway it should be unstoppable.

 

Now the campaign begins to extend it too Hawick.

[Bernard Lamb]

Good news.

But will the first train run before the first tram in Edinburgh?

As the first tram will take the next number following on from the last one built, what suggestions for the numbering for the first stock to use the new line?

Bernard

[62440]

Good news.

But will the first train run before the first tram in Edinburgh?

As the first tram will take the next number following on from the last one built, what suggestions for the numbering for the first stock to use the new line?

Bernard

 

If there is any possibility of a nameplate somewhere, what about "Madge Elliot"? That's her outside number 10 Downing Street with David Steel and the (then) Earl of Buccleuch on December 1968. Madge fought tirelessly at the time of closure and has never given up since.

 

.... and I believe that the last steam working over the Waverley Route in November 1967 was Brit "Tornado" - wouldn't it just be fitting that a re-opening visitor might be the new "Tornado"?

 

Bruce

[Guest Max Stafford]

Aye, that would be good. What about a second 'namer' - The Rev. Brydon Mabon?

There would be an element of honour satisfied there too! :icon_thumbsup2:

 

Dave.

[Guest Phil]

To the OP mainly - any chance we can change the title of this thread - first time I saw it I expected, naturally enough, for it to be Bachmann's announcement that they'll be releasing a Gloucester Class 100 DMU and Highland Class 24 in time for Easter

 

 

 

Tissues please nurse !!!!

['CHARD]

That's the people-shot of this thread, surely! The Tornado detail is very spicy indeed, and as late as you like, given the imminent shutting off of hot water at 12A. What were you saying Dave about me turning the clock back 12 months

 

Coincidence to see David Steele interviewed last night, about the passing of Michael "1:1" Foot. I would be very interested to hear his (David Steele's) thoughts and recollections on this, not that the scene of that notorious night is getting its railway back though. And Group Standards would prevent a recurrence anyway: the few level crossings that were features of Waverley MkI will be replaced by road overbridges.

[45156]

Blooming wonderful - sense prevails at last - this was one route closure too many in the first instance - if any line should never have been closed, this was it.

 

I walked great lengths of the line after it closed in my student days (now amazingly nearly 40 years ago) and have since then always hoped that this would happen - I also walked a number of other routes in the Glasgow area including Dalmarnock to Anderston via Central Low Level, which has also re-opened- I wonder what would happen if I put my re-opening feet on Wennington Junction to Lancaster Green Ayre? Given the timescale between the walks and the re-opening, I would not be around to see any such happy event.

[jamie92208]

This is great news. I went to a family wedding a few years ago that was in a small castle in the centre of a bend near Gorebridge. After several glasses of various things I went out on to the steps and looked at the line and just wished I could see an A3 going past with the glow from the firebox. At last that dream is coming true though a class 170 is not quite the same as an A3. I just hope that the next phase on to Hawick gets started soon.

 

Jamie

[sulzer27jd]

2? I'm only counting one of relevance and that's the 2011 Holyrood election. Short of ripping up the Scotland Act, there isn't anything Westminster can do about it. The only problems are budgetary really, and they'll find funds to keep the project going now it's started not least because Labour came up with the idea and now the SNP are pursuing it, so neither can back down on it without looking bloody stupid.

 

 

 

Britain isn't exactly known for it's speed at building capital projects

 

The budget is indeed the main issue and given the Scottish Government (however is in administration) is prevented from borrowing by the current devolution settlement this will always cause problems with large scale infrastructure projects. Having to pay for a major development over the length of construction rather than spreading it over a longer period will always restrict the choice of projects and will almost certainly prevent multiple projects happening at once. Hence for example the scrapping of the Glasgow Airport rail link.

 

It is the fact that it seems to have taken an eternity to get this far that has been frustrating - however, can we now look forward to some Scotrail stock running on Ian Futers layouts?

 

John

[Chameleon]

I dunno if the government financials is such a big factor. I believe the line is subject to one of those wonderful PFI deals where private money is used to build the line. It will be Network rail to the boundry, just past Newcraighall then it will be private from there to Tweedbank.

Scotrail will however, still be providing the trains n crews.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Hard to believe I first heard of this project in 1996. I heard of the ill-fated southern section project at the same time, mooted for timber extraction. A shame this never came to fruition as it would have re-instated a single goods line to Riccarton Junction with a kickback along the BCR to Kielder.

 

I suppose the cost of re-building Hermitage viaduct killed that one almost single-handedly.

 

Dave.

[Chameleon]

Great stuff! Any reopening of old railways is to be applauded. Why the hell they were closed in the first place is beyond belief. There has been talk of reopening the former Carmarthen to Aberystwyth route via Lampeter which would be sensational and a real boost to the archaic transport infrastructure of this part of west Wales. It traverses some of the most spectacular country in Ceredigion and so would have benefits for the tourist industry as well. Now... if they could reopen the lovely former branch from Lampeter to Aberaeron that would be really something! The sound of steam locos working hard through the Aeron Valley once again would be pure magic.

 

Simon

 

I think, by the mid 60s about 95% of traffic was carried on about 50% of lines. The railways were horribly inefficient and something had to be done.

Dr Beeching was a businessman brought in from ICI who took a very dispassionate approach. If it didn't make money, it should be closed.

Unfortunately he did not care or bother about social impact to closing lines, it was pure financial black and white. Of course this was also open to abuse as often they would only count ticket sales FROM a particular station and wouldn't count all the tickets TO it! Hence a lot of holiday lines etc shut down. If they really wanted to close something, it wasn't hard to find an excuse.

Politics also played a part, as the story goes, the Waverley route was closed to help provide extra funds to complete the West Coast electrification to Glasgow. I suppose the borders wasn't a great vote winner to the encumbent government of the time as many MPs fought tooth and nail to keep their local lines (and their jobs!)

 

Interesting thought though, if the line had been kept, as double track, what would the journey time be like between Edinburgh and Carlisle today? How would it compare to the current route via Carstairs? What stops would still be open today?

['CHARD]

The GSW is probably the best comparator for that, but I don't have the relevant T/T to hand to calculate how that route's been speeded up since 1968.

 

For the record, my opinion of the stations that would be open today had the line not closed are as follows, heading north, note I've taken a couple of liberties modernising the actual names:

 

[incidentally, the (in)direct line between Carlisle and Longtown via Canal Jct, Stainton, Brunthill and Fauldmoor has closed anyway as an economy measure, and the Waverley route starts at Mossband, via the ex NB Gretna branch, regaining the route proper at Longtown, this entire section remains single line and the Esk viaduct has been demolished]

 

Longtown for Langholm connecting bus service (passing loop)

Newcastleton

Riccarton Outward Bound - for Kielder Forest Tour and Holiday Village (passing-loop; timber extraction freight only spur comes in here, operated as a long siding)

Hawick (end of single-line section)

Newtown St Boswells

Charlesfield (reopened station from the halt shut in the late 19th century to serve new housing)

Melrose for Selkirk and Scott's Abbotsford

Tweedbank Park & Ride

Galashiels

Stow

Gorebridge

Newtongrange for National Mining Museum (Park & Ride, relocated to Victoria Colliery site)

Eskbank for Dalkieth and Lasswade

Millerhill Park & Ride (adjacent to Edinburgh By-Pass)

[Guest Max Stafford]

Put like that Bruce, a slimmed down but retained Waverley looks like a much more viable proposition, that had it lasted another ten years or so, could have benefitted from the kind of marketing that has been so kind to the West Highland.

Perhaps, circa 1985 the line might have had its own dedicated batch of 37/4s for general service including the Edinburgh-Euston sleeper, now running through the border country with pick-up at Gala and Hawick before joining 1M11 at Carlisle.

Perhaps the 37s would have names taken from the Waverley novels; 37 440 'Wandering Willie', anyone?

 

Dave.

[D6975]

Don't forget that many of Beeching's recommendations were rejected, otherwise the railways would truly be skeletal. Originally there was to be nothing North of Inverness for example - anyone who's travelled the Kyle line in the summer knows what a mistake that would have been.

[fegguk]

From a selection of photos taken yesterday,mostly of tree filled cuttings.

 

 

 

 

Here is what the fuss was about a hole near the site of Kilnknowe Junction.

 

 

Looking the other way past the former junction

 

 

Destination Tweedbank Central

Waiting and boarding facilities will need some up grading before the new service begins.

[45156]

I've not seen the plans for this project at all, but I guess that it will be single track with passing loops, and the most basic stations possible?

Has anybody seen any proposals to go beyond Hawick and to complete this missing link back to Carlisle?

[fegguk]

I've not seen the plans for this project at all, but I guess that it will be single track with passing loops, and the most basic stations possible?

Has anybody seen any proposals to go beyond Hawick and to complete this missing link back to Carlisle?

 

 

see transport scotlands website

 

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/borders-railway

 

also

 

http://www.campaignforbordersrail.org/

[John_Hughes]

I think, by the mid 60s about 95% of traffic was carried on about 50% of lines. The railways were horribly inefficient and something had to be done.

 

(heavily snipped!)

 

As anyone in business knows, it's quite typical for 80% of your business to come from 20% of your customers - certainly ours does!

 

Interestingly the same ratio even applies in other areas - people tend to listen to 20% of their CDs 80% of the time, and so on. So this figure was an inevitable consequence of the fact that the railways were in business, and nothing to do with efficiency or the lack of it - which is not to deny that there were inefficiencies that should have been dealt with, often many years before.

 

There was of course one particular case where the ghastly Beeching was very aware of the social consequences of closure: he made sure that the loss-making line to East Grinstead was kept open, simply because it served his own local station. Not, I have to admit, my favourite character of the time; that accolade would have to go to Christine Keeler!

[fegguk]

Recent news on the waverley rail project.

 

Five contractors has come forward to bid.

 

 

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Competition-hots-up-for-Borders.6161304.jp

 

Any one fancy making it 6