BrushVeteran Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I thought I would start this one off as I can see that with manufacturers going towards the DMU/EMU market there will be a demand. What I am currently trying to compile is a list of the sets that appeared in this early variation of blue livery but this, apart from the WR 117/118's, LMR DC 501's,LMR AC 304's seems to be a non starter as the listing will have to refer to individual cars as many cars were not repainted as sets but as individual cars. That's what it seems like anyway and I know from my early visits to Doncaster and Derby Works that it was always difficult to identify a complete set. Personally I would like to model a 105 in blue SYP and even these had their variations in the size of the yellow panel so perhaps with information coming from a discussion on this forum, we can begin to compile something. I think photographic evidence is preferable because of the variations mentioned but as far as I am aware there is no such listing available. What do you think, is there an interest? 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) I don't have the car number handy but can probably find it later. I believe this is the same train, note only 1 car is blue. The March pic is of the M&GN Soc railtour coming off the St.Ives line on the last day it was open, so someone might beat me to the number!StewartEditLooking closer the yellow panels are different so not the same cars! I'll dig the slides out later. Edited September 18, 2016 by stewartingram 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted July 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Here are a few of mine, all currently on flickr. I'll search my other images when I get chance. David Edited as I couldn't spell my own name! Edited July 2, 2011 by DaveF 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Oh you rotters. Now I've started drooling at the prospect of repraying a couple of units into BSYP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Rintoul Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Gloucester class 100 MBS car no. SC51117 ran in blue with small yellow panel until 1973. I cannot recall any of the DTC cars in this livery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) The list below represent those SR units that carried blue with small yellow ends. The details are taken from a list sent to me by John Atkinson and is based on the paint dates carried on the unit ends. Dates shown are the date of outshopping in blue with small yellow panels. The second date shows the application of a replacement livery. The following codes are used: bsyp= blue with small yellow panels bfye= blue with full yellow ends. bgfye=blue/grey with full yellow ends As far as is known no LAVs, HALs or BILs ever carried blue with small yellow panels. None of the TC or REPs received full yellow ends on their blue livery. 4-BUF 3078 c1-67bsyp 28-5-69bfye 4-COR 3103 4-1-67bsyp (last in bsyp) 9-6-70bfye 3108 27-1-67bsyp 24-2-69bfye 3110 27-9-66bsyp 17-6-69bfye 3114 26-1-67bsyp 11-3-70bfye 3121 14-9-66bsyp 4-5-69bfye 3124 12-6-66bsyp 25-7-68bfye 3132 20-12-66bsyp 29-1-69bfye 3133 2-11-66bsyp 24-4-70bfye 3134 c12-66bsyp 4-9-68bfye 3147 1-11-66bsyp 2-2-70bfye 3152 18-8-66bsyp 30-9-69bfye 4-SUB 4117 5-10-66bsyp 22-2-69bfye 4121 15-12-66bsyp 19-7-69bfye 4124 7-11-66bsyp 26-3-69bfye 4126 24-11-66bsyp 30-4-69bfye 4127 11-7-66bsyp 17-1-69bfye 4284 26-1-67bsyp 13-6-69bfye 4288 17-1-67bsyp 31-5-69bfye 4296 2-1-67bsyp 29-5-69bfye 4298 7-9-66bsyp (last in bsyp) 20-10-69bfye 4358 31-1-67bsyp 7-5-69bfye 4365 21-10-66bsyp wdn 4367 23-9-66bsyp 14-4-69bfye 4369 11-1-67bsyp 17-4-69bfye 4375 1-9-66bsyp 3-4-69bfye SR 4-EPB 5177 4-12-66bsyp 26-2-69bfye 5205 9-2-67bsyp 20-8-69bfye 5212 10-11-66bsyp 20-9-69bfye 5215 20-7-66bsyp 23-5-69bfye 5219 18-8-66bsyp 29-3-69bfye 5241 7-10-66bsyp 20-1-69bfye 5243 15-7-66bsyp 1-4-69bfye 5246 20-10-66bsyp by10-69bfye 5253 29-12-66bsyp 4-3-70bfye 5258 14-9-66bsyp 13-9-69bfye 5260 19-9-66bsyp 5-3-69bfye BR 2-EPB 5739 21-11-66bsyp 26-8-69bfye 5753 17-1-67bsyp 19-8-70bfye 5755 19-9-66bsyp 22-3-69bfye 5760 3-2-67bsyp 22-10-69bfye 5763 1-7-66bsyp by8-69bfye 5764 19-7-66bsyp 25-7-69bfye 5765 19-9-66bsyp 8-4-70bfye 5772 11-11-66bsyp 4-4-70bfye 5773 24-8-66bsyp 24-1-69bfye 5775 20-10-66bsyp by10-70bfye 4-BEP 7003 12-12-66bsyp 4-7-69bgfye 7008 11-10-66bsyp by10-69bgfye 4-CEP 7104 29-11-66bsyp 17-2-69bgfye 7106 4-11-66bsyp 30-4-69bgfye 7107 24-1-67bsyp 4-6-69bgfye 7108 4-11-66bsyp 31-10-69bgfye 7110 21-12-66bsyp by10-69bgfye 7121 23-11-66bsyp 5-2-69bgfye 7132 13-1-67bsyp by2-70bgfye 7146 12-1-67bsyp 29-5-70bgfye BR 2-HAP 6005 11-11-66bsyp 27-8-70bfye 6006 22-7-66bsyp 14-8-70bfye 6010 11-1-67bsyp 4-9-70bfye 6012 7-11-66bsyp 8-10-69bfye 6016 8-66bsyp 4-6-68bfye 6018 10-8-66bsyp 6-6-69bfye 6020 (first in blue) 19-7-66bsyp c8-70bfye 6021 25-10-66bsyp 6-69bfye 6027 15-12-66bsyp 6-9-69bfye 6030 15-12-66bsyp (last in bsyp) by5-71bfye 6036 21-7-66bsyp 18-6-69bfye 6037 29-9-66bsyp 25-6-69bfye 6038 25-8-66bsyp 4-2-70bfye 6041 27-10-66bsyp 12-8-70bfye SR 2-HAP 5608 17-8-66bsyp 2-10-69bfye 5610 21-11-66bsyp 19-9-69bfye 5614 6-9-66bsyp 29-7-70bfye 5617 17-8-66bsyp 11-569bfye BR 4-EPB 5305 2-9-66bsyp 7-11-68bfye 3-TC All three delivered new in bsyp during mid 1967 301 new5-67bsyp c5-70bgfye 302 new7-67bsyp 29-5-69bgfye 303 new7-67bsyp 28-8-69bgfye 4-TC All delivered new in bsyp 1966-67 401 new10-67bsyp (first in blue/grey)c5-68bgfye 402 new8-66bsyp 15-10-68bgfye 403 new8-66bsyp 24-9-68bgfye 404 new8-66bsyp 17-6-68bgfye 405 new8-66bsyp 30-7-68bgfye 406 new8-66bsyp 12-68bgfye 407 new8-66bsyp 27-1-69bgfye 408 new8-66bsyp 8-11-68bgfye 409 new9-66bsyp 4-9-68bgfye 410 new9-66bsyp 20-8-69bgfye 411 new9-66bsyp 11-12-68bgfye 412 new9-66bsyp 23-10-69bgfye 413 new10-66bsyp 18-3-69bgfye 414 new10-66bsyp 26-11-69bgfye 415 new11-66bsyp 25-6-70bgfye 416 new10-66bsyp c5-69bgfye 417 new11-66bsyp 24-9-69bgfye 418 new11-66bsyp 12-68bgfye 419 new11-66bsyp 14-7-70bgfye 420 new11-66bsyp c9-70bgfye 421 new12-66bsyp 6-5-70bgfye 422 new12-66bsyp c29-10-70bgfye 423 new2-67bsyp 21-5-69bgfye *ran as 3-car 2-67 to 7-67 424 new3-67bsyp (last SR Blue XP unit) 23-11-70bgfye *ran as 3-car 3-67 to 7-67 425 new1-67bsyp 23-7-69bgfye *ran as 3-car 1-67 to 7-67 426 new2-67bsyp 8-1-70bgfye *ran as 3-car 2-67 to 10-67 427 new2-67bsyp 9-6-69bgfye *ran as 3-car 2-67 to 7-67 428 new3-67bsyp 8-8-70bgfye *ran as 3-car 3-67 to 7-67 Note- 423-428 initially delivered formed DTS+TBS+DTS awaiting TF which was added later in mid-1967 4-REP All delivered new in bsyp during 1967 3001 new3-67bsyp (first in blue/grey) 1-1-69bgfye 3002 new3-67bsyp 1-4-69bgfye 3003 new3-67bsyp by2-69bgfye 3004 new5-67bsyp 28-2-69bgfye 3005 new6-67bsyp 2-2-70bgfye 3006 new5-67bsyp by2-70bgfye 3007 new6-67bsyp 28-4-69bgfye 3008 new5-67bsyp (last in bsyp) 3-70bgfye 3009 new6-67bsyp 10-69bgfye 3010 new7-67bsyp c5-70bgfye 3011 new7-67bsyp 12-69bgfye 4-VEP All delivered new in bsyp during 1967 7701 new4-67bsyp 25-8-69bfye 7702 new4-67bsyp 11-8-69bfye 7703 new4-67bsyp by11-69bfye 7704 new4-67bsyp 23-9-69bfye 7705 new4-67bsyp 31-7-69bfye 7706 new4-67bsyp 3-6-70bfye 7707 new4-67bsyp c5-69bfye 7708 new4-67bsyp 12-5-70bfye 7709 new6-67bsyp 1-7-69bfye 7710 new6-67bsyp 14-7-70bfye 7711 new6-67bsyp 26-11-70bfye 7712 new6-67bsyp by11-69bfye 7713 new6-67bsyp 9-9-70bfye 7714 new6-67bsyp 16-10-70bfye 7715 new7-67bsyp 7-7-70bfye 7716 new7-67bsyp 10-69bfye 7717 new7-67bsyp 30-6-70bfye 7718 new7-67bsyp 17-6-70bfye 7719 new7-67bsyp 6-12-69bfye 7720 new7-67bsyp 14-8-70bfye Hastings DEMU 1016 15-10-66bsyp 15-8-69bgfye 1033 24-8-66bsyp 17-6-69bgfye Hampshire DEMU 1103 5-7-66bsyp 30-10-68bfye 1106 by12-66bsyp by11-69bfye 1113 21-11-66bsyp 19-12-69bfye 1114 9-1-67bsyp c2-4-69bfye Class 501 164 -66bsyp ?date bfye I hope the above list is of interest/use and welcome any additions or corrections. EDIT: Of use!??! I'd say that will take on biblical proportions for more than a few observers, a huge thanks for this, Natalie. 'CHARD EDIT I have altered the entry for 501 unit no 164 to reflect the above format. I hope this is OK. Natalie Edited July 8, 2011 by Natalie I reckon this rich vein of gen deserves a few votes! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 David The picture above (of AM10 061 near Crick in March 1967) shows the earlier version as applied to the first few units (not sure as to exact numbers). The slightly later version saw the yellow panel extended to include the whole cab area below the window handrails with a slight wrap round onto the bodysides. Incidentally the AM10 units were the first to be painted in the new rail blue livery from new. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) The list below represent those SR units that carried blue with small yellow ends. The details are taken from a list sent to me by John Atkinson and is based on the paint dates carried on the unit ends. Dates shown are the date of outshopping in BE (blue with small yellow panels). The second date shows the application of a replacement livery. BY is blue with full yellow ends. BG is blue/grey with full yellow ends As far as is known no LAVs, HALs or BILs ever carried blue with small yellow panels. None of the TC or REPs received full yellow ends on their blue livery. I hope the above list is of interest/use and welcome any additions or corrections. Class 501 164 CY @ 1966 Xerces Fobe Edited July 6, 2011 by 'CHARD To thin down the quote. I will add units into Natalie's source 'directory' from time to time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Gloucester class 100 MBS car no. SC51117 ran in blue with small yellow panel until 1973. I cannot recall any of the DTC cars in this livery. Waverley Route regular performer (obviously not after 4th January '69). Many thanks for this info Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I hope the above list is of interest/use and welcome any additions or corrections. EDIT: Of use!??! I'd say that will take on biblical proportions for more than a few observers, a huge thanks for this, Natalie. 'CHARD I can't take any credit for the list or information within it- that is by John Atkinson and Keith Gunner who obtained the details at the time. Maybe we should standardise on the format to increase its usefulness? John uses the following livery codes: BE Blue with small yellow panels BG blue/grey with full yellow ends BY Blue with full yellow end GY Green with full yellow ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I see no reason why, as units are subtly different from locos, those codes shouldn't be adopted in this thread. Cheers for tweaking the 501 entry - I'd simply cut & pasted, and that had resulted in the inclusion of CY as depot allocation where a livery detail should have been! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Maybe we should standardise on the format to increase its usefulness? John uses the following livery codes: BE Blue with small yellow panels BG blue/grey with full yellow ends BY Blue with full yellow end GE Green with full yellow ends. I see no reason why, as units are subtly different from locos, those codes shouldn't be adopted in this thread. I'll beg to differ here, I'd find a dual system confusing. Not only that, but the BE and GE above are completely dissimilar in meaning and lacking in logic IMHO. Is there really any reason why the same codes can't be used? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It would make sense to stick to the convention of P = panel, E = end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) That is the format that I had the list sent to me in. I did not devise the codes and am merely reproducing the list in the format that I received it in. If you want to change all the codes then be my guest but I'm not about to sometime soon. How would you deal with blue/grey with full yellow ends? The list is supposed to a help- if it is confusing then I can just as easily remove it. EDIT- I have altered the codes as requested. Edited July 6, 2011 by Natalie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 That is the format that I had the list sent to me in. I did not devise the codes and am merely reproducing the list in the format that I received it in. If you want to change all the codes then be my guest but I'm not about to sometime soon. How would you deal with blue/grey with full yellow ends? The list is supposed to a help- if it is confusing then I can just as easily remove it. Natalie, Unfortunately you ain't gonna please some people - ever ! I for one thank you; and as for the use of differing naming 'conventions' surely if anyone finds it a real inconvenience it's not beyond the use of basic computer skills (for them) to edit it for their own use. The important info is there in the form of dates and they use only one convention ! Thanks again - most useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 That is the format that I had the list sent to me in. I did not devise the codes and am merely reproducing the list in the format that I received it in. If you want to change all the codes then be my guest but I'm not about to sometime soon. How would you deal with blue/grey with full yellow ends? The list is supposed to a help- if it is confusing then I can just as easily remove it. EDIT- I have altered the codes as requested. Many thanks Natalie. I had been in two minds, anyway you've got a PM. I shouldn't be such a prevaricator! Thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 That is the format that I had the list sent to me in. I did not devise the codes and am merely reproducing the list in the format that I received it in. If you want to change all the codes then be my guest but I'm not about to sometime soon. The list is supposed to a help- if it is confusing then I can just as easily remove it. EDIT- I have altered the codes as requested. Unfortunately you ain't gonna please some people - ever ! ... as for the use of differing naming 'conventions' surely if anyone finds it a real inconvenience it's not beyond the use of basic computer skills (for them) to edit it for their own use. Oh dear, only six weeks into this and people are getting jumped on for opening their mouths Just for the record, I didnt ask anybody to edit anything, I'd have been quite content to decipher John and Keith's list if I ever needed the info. If you read my post carefully, you'll see it's couched in the future tense, because I thought we were discussing what we'd do from this point onwards in the interests of consistency. How would you deal with blue/grey with full yellow ends? As you now have - I saw that one coming. If 'BGFYE' is too much of a mouthful, then drop the 'FYE', because all blue/grey units had them anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The aim of the list was to share the information that I had. I can understand the logic of continuing with the well known loco codes but personally feel that the use of bsyp etc is quite cumbersome on the whole list- especially when you bear in mind that things like VEPs are on there and start going into the world of NSE, Connex etc- that is when it gets fun! But for the purposes of discussing a green to blue transition then I am ok with it as I have altered to. I have some information that was posted in the Railway Observer (of the RCTS) from about 1965 onwards which is very useful regarding liveries but as with any journal that relies on observations alone can not be regarded as 100% reliable. It does serve as a good start though. I shall post these later as I think they are likely to be of use. Now do you want me to add to my list above or write it out - as in the following example (which is the entry from Dec 1966 not a made up one for illustrative purposes): December 1966 RO- Diesel- M50752, E51280, M51604/33/41/69, M51871/87, E56441, M59617/42/38/50, M59741/43/58 have been repainted in blue livery Electric- Further sets to receive plain blue livery are 054, 226/93, 318 and 441. Clacton set 608 is now blue and grey.(which could have been one of the two (I think) units that carried small yellow panels- bgsyp... You will note that the state of the cab end (assuming the vehicle has a cab of course!) is not noted at this time- it is possible that the full yellow ends have not yet started to filter through by the issue of the RO- it all depends on when the observations were actually sent in. Also bear in mind the first bfye repaints had the yellow wrapped round to include the cab doors- how do we describe those- bfye(wrap)? The AM10s are difficult too as when (some/most?) first delivered they had a small yellow panel confined to the jumper cable area which was later extended to include the whole are below the window handrails- but is still a small yellow panel- or is it a half yellow end? Problem is at the time most people with cameras were too pre-occupied with steam locos and missed out recording a fascinating period in unit livery evolution. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Thanks for those Natalie, it's much appreciated. In the spirit of the (fortunately few) more complex codes that we've seen on the locos, such as eBFYE (early blue) on 47s, or eGSYP (econo green) on Peaks - to name but two... ...I reckon the code could be BFYEw for the wrap-round MUs. EDIT: Oops! Missed the supplementary question! On the loco front, we've dealt with non-standard yellow panels on a case by case/ class by class basis. For example, the class 16 death-mask yellow panels, and recently Trevor H's odd-shaped Class 21/ 29 SYPs. In fact, some of the early 29 FYEs are actually wraps Edited July 7, 2011 by 'CHARD Supplementary answer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have added the new dates for the TC, REP and VEP units just to give a date as to when the livery was applied. Apologies that it all seems to bunch together- I've tried formatting it but when I post it it all disappears! The interesting unit is 3-TC 304 which was actually 2 spare cars. According to Ashley Butlin's 'British Multiple Units-Vol4' it carried the number 304 until the TBS 70843 was reformed in 'new' 4-TC 432 in Feb 1975 with the DTS 76331 (which actually started out in 4-TC 401 until May 1968 when it swapped places with 76270) remaining spare until it was withdrawn in July 1990. This unit is not listed in John's list so I am unable to give a date for repainting into blue/grey. 304 is never listed anywhere so it has to be treated with suspicion that the number was actually carried. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Anyone remember SYP EMUS next to Class 33's in green with no SYP? Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The aim of the list was to share the information that I had. Fully noted, and duly appreciated 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Interesting pic here:- http://www.flickr.co...N05/2183058618/ and more so here:- http://www.flickr.co...N08/3269267006/ Have posted links rather than copies to keep t'right side of copyright. Edited July 7, 2011 by leopardml2341 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 8, 2011 Unit number 304 was never carried. Spare cars built as such for SR types carried their alloted stock numbers but not a unit number. The place where that would go was left blank until such time as the car was required in service when it would have the appropriate (and often hand-painted) number applied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Looking through " Merseyside Electrics" by John Cadwallander and Martin Jenkins there are ome very interesting photos - on Page 17 there is a photo of Class 503 car M29887M at Bank Hill Station in 1971 in blue with a SYP. On page 20 Class 503 M28344M at Waterloo in blue with a SYP. Fianlly a phot o on Page 68 near Bidston Moss of a Class 108 amd possibley a Class 503 in blue with a SYP, however it has hard to determine if it is green or blue as well as a Class 08 with half yellow black striped cab! Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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