Occasional Canadian photos, mostly from Vancouver area

[pH]

Where will you be staying, David? You say you'd prefer locations to be acessible by transit, but will you have any access to a car?

[DavidB-AU]

I'll be staying near Burrard station and won't have access to a car.

 

Cheers

David

[pH]

This line (the 'Arbutus' line) was built by the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1902. The BC Electric Railway leased the line in 1905 and developed it as an interurban railway. This service ended in 1952, but CP continued to run freight trains over it until 2001. After service was withdrawn, CPR tried to develop the right-of-way. The City of Vancouver did not allow this, passing the Arbutus Corridor Official Development Plan, which preserved the right-of-way as a 'public thoroughfare'. CPR appealed this, and it went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada before being decided in favour of the city. As far as I know, nothing has been done to the line since the Supreme Court's decision.

 

I apologise for quoting my own post, but it's to give the background to this story in the Vancouver paper: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Canadian+Pacific+Railway+trains+again+Westside+Vancouver/9821138/story.html

 

So, the CPR are clearing brush on, and considering reopening a line:

- which had only one freight customer when service was withdrawn. (That customer is now supplied by road.)

- which had had no passenger service for over half a century

- which crosses many major commuter roads on ungated crossings

- which passes through upmarket housing areas, crossing residential streets on ungated crossings which may require horns to be sounded as trains cross

- parts of which have been incorporated into house yards, or have been taken over and planted as community gardens

- which CPR have been prevented from developing or selling for development since service was withdrawn

 

If one was cynical, what might one think?

Edited May 9, 2014 by pH

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi pH,

 

if one was cynical and in the UK..

 

You might think they were enhancing the property in order to get maximum sale value from a compulsory purchase by the town/city/state...

 

Or you could be the optimist and say this was preparation for reintroduction of train service.

 

Thanks

[AngusDe]

Great photos in this topic! I'll be in Vancouver in just under a month and would welcome any suggestions for good railfanning/photography locations, preferably accessible by TransLink.

Cheers

David

Having arrived in Vancouver today I was hoping to see a reply, lol!

 

As I navigated my hire car from the airport to Chilliwack I saw a fascinating scene near Langley, where 4 locos were shuffling down a branch with 4 cars, seemed like a bit of overkill, but I didn't recognise the livery, 3 locos were in a dark blue livery and 1 in green?

 

Angus

[pH]

Having arrived in Vancouver today I was hoping to see a reply, lol!

 

As I navigated my hire car from the airport to Chilliwack I saw a fascinating scene near Langley, where 4 locos were shuffling down a branch with 4 cars, seemed like a bit of overkill, but I didn't recognise the livery, 3 locos were in a dark blue livery and 1 in green?

 

Angus

 

Angus, I don't know what the green loco would have been, but the dark blue ones were probably Southern Railway of BC (SRY) like this: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-s/sry0129mfa.jpg

Edited May 15, 2014 by pH

[Adrian Wintle]

I apologise for quoting my own post, but it's to give the background to this story in the Vancouver paper: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Canadian+Pacific+Railway+trains+again+Westside+Vancouver/9821138/story.html

 

So, the CPR are clearing brush on, and considering reopening a line:

- which had only one freight customer when service was withdrawn. (That customer is now supplied by road.)

- which had had no passenger service for over half a century

- which crosses many major commuter roads on ungated crossings

- which passes through upmarket housing areas, crossing residential streets on ungated crossings which may require horns to be sounded as trains cross

- parts of which have been incorporated into house yards, or have been taken over and planted as community gardens

- which CPR have been prevented from developing or selling for development since service was withdrawn

 

If one was cynical, what might one think?

 

I would think that CP is trying to force the city's hand. The rail line has not been closed and is CP property (on which they are likely paying property tax to the city) but as far as I can see the city feels that it can compel CP to open it up to other uses without buying the corridor from CP. The Supreme Court decision really seems to be about zoning, not actual use - just saying that the city has the right to prevent the corridor from being developed in ways that would remove the possibility of a rail line. Since it is CP property, there is a significant legal liability to CP if it is allowing (either actively or by inaction) other people to use the land, as they could be on the hook if somone is hurt on their property.

 

If the city wants to turn it into a greenway and transitway then they should buy the corridor from CP at fair market value (just like other municipalities have done in similar situations). Otherwise, it is still legally an active rail line and CP has the right to treat it as such, including clearing trespassers 'community gardens' from their property, renewing the fencing to prevent trespassing, cutting back the brush, and running trains.

 

Your third and fourth points would still be issues if the city runs commuter service on the line (as suggested for future use in the article).

Your fifth point is just accenting the trespassing.

 

Adrian

Edited May 15, 2014 by Adrian Wintle

[pH]

Adrian, sarcasm and cynicism don't always come over well in print. Of course I was suggesting that CP are trying to push the city into buying the line. What I'm looking forward to is just how hard they will have to push. Personally, I think it would make a great training ground for train crews. No active traffic, so no interruptions; fairly steep gradients in places and quick changes of gradients; practice in dealing with urban conditions; a few sidings still in position to practice switching - what more could you want? So - a couple of Geeps and, say, 20 hoppers - enough to cross both Broadway and 12th at 7:45am. Plus, you would want crews to gain experience in night operations as well, wouldn't you?

 

I don't think it will get anywhere close to that, but it could be interesting. I also don't think there will be commuter rail of any kind on that corridor. CP have no real interest in doing that. The line was proposed by Translink as a possible route of the airport Skytrain line, but that went another way. (IMO) there's not enough potential online traffic to justify another north-south Skytrain line so close, plus there would be the same strong opposition as last time. TransLink does not 'do' trams. I think the city will eventually buy the line and keep it as a greenway - they will just need a bit more of a push.

[Adrian Wintle]

I get the impression is that the city wants to get the benefit of using the line as a greenway while still collecting property taxes from CP (i.e. they don't want to spend/lose money). I'm guessing that they have misjudged the Hunter Harrison effect...

 

And yes, sounding horns at crossings at odd hours is a really good way to get people annoyed, although they'll mostly be annoyed at CP. Based on the reactions around here, it wouldn't matter if the railway has been continuously active - if residences get built near existing crossings there will be complaints about the horns. 'They were here first' works as well with railways as it does with airports.

 

Adrian

[pH]

I'm stretching 'Vancouver area' again. I was in Port Alberni on Vancouver Island yesterday. I went down to the Alberni Pacific (tourist railway) depot to see if there was anything happening (unlikely on a Friday not in holiday season) or if there was any equipment to see. The answer was 'no' to both:

 

 

and the timetable displayed showed nothing to happen for several weeks. So we went off to look at other things. On the way back, we had to pass the depot again. Things had changed!

 

 

It was a special, not open to the public, for passengers on a day trip from a cruise ship docked at Nanaimo on the east side of the Island. The engine is a Baldwin 2-8-2T, built in 1929. It was previously used on logging railways in the area - first on the Alberni Pacific Lumber Company, then with MacMillan Bloedel.

 

There was something interesting in the carpark at the depot:

 

 

Streetview were going to use the special to film on the railway. The cameraman had a "portable" camera strapped on his back - it looked like a large backpack with a couple of bedrolls on top. I didn't see where he was going to be travelling, on the engine or in a coach - arrangements were still being made when we had to leave.

Edited May 18, 2014 by pH

[travelintrev]

Thanks for posting those. 

 

 

I visited there this time last year,  again noaction on the Railway so went to the nearby logging museum, was quite interesting though. 

 

My next visit is sort of planed for the end of August...maybe I'll have better luck!

 

 

Trev.

[pH]

Trev, here's the schedule for the Alberni Pacific. http://www.alberniheritage.com/alberni-pacific-railway/schedule-fares . If you make it before the end of August, you should see some traffic.

[AngusDe]

2 short clips, of some trains near Vancouver last week. 

 

 

 

You can try counting the cars, maybe 160ish in each train, I'm curious why the CP one has 1 loco at the front and 1 in the middle, whilst the CP train has 2 at the front.

 

Anyway, hope they are of interest!

 

Angus

Edited May 26, 2014 by AngusDe

[pH]

Big, aren't they? That's the first time I can remember seeing a loaded CP grain train with only one unit on the front.

[dibber25]

Evenly distributed power puts less strain on the couplers. R/C locomotives are also more efficient on CP's gradients where you may have one loco going uphill and one downhill at the same time, so both are powered and driven accordingly from the leading cab. To do it, you need specially equipped locomotives. If you don't have them, or the RC isn't working, then you need to MU both locomotives up front.

[Grovenor]

 

I'm curious why the CP one has 1 loco at the front and 1 in the middle, whilst the CP train has 2 at the front.

I'm curious why the CP one has 1 loco at the front and 1 at the rear, in the middle, whilst the CN CP train has 2 at the front.

Good films though.

Keith

[Guest CPRAIL3000]

Great videos, keep them coming.

[DavidB-AU]

My first photo from Vancouver, just after I arrived yesterday. I have to say the international arrival track at Pacific Central was a bit of a dump.

 

 

Cheers

David

[pH]

New Westminster this afternoon. 5356, the lead unit of three Canadian National SD40-2Ws on a trip working from the Port Mann yards towards Vancouver. That is not the 'North American map' colour scheme, it's just undercoat showing through. (All three units were pretty tatty.)

 

The train is coming down off the Fraser River bridge on BNSF tracks. The line in the foreground, between the fence and the track the train is on, is the Canadian Pacific New Westminster branch from Port Coquitlam.

 

 

The photo was taken against a very strong sun.

[DavidB-AU]

A Canada Line train at Richmond-Brighouse.

 

Looking out the front of an Expo Line train from Stadium-Chinatown to Commercial-Broadway.

 

Cheers

David

[roundhouse]

Yet to do the Richmond and airport lines.

They are for Saturday.

[DavidB-AU]

I've done all the SkyTrain lines except the airport, because of the premium fare. I'll do that the day I leave.

 

From Richmond I got the bus to Steveston. Unfortunately the museum with interurban car 1220 was closed.

 

Cheers

David

[roundhouse]

We managed a trip on the West Coast Express to Pit Meadows then a bus from there back yo the Sky train. The We trains are quite lengthy and the loco stops beyond beyond the platforms so wasn't easy to get a decent photo but I did take some shots of the CP locos along the route. A shame that they don't run a more frequent service.

Also Port Moody is one big construction site at the moment.

 

Now enjoying a few more beers in downtown Vancouver.

 

Ian

[travelintrev]

Being as you missed the interuban car in Steveston  (which has some of the best  fish - n - chips I've had anywhere!) 

 

Here are a few pics I took last May (2013) . I was asked if I'd like to "volunteer"  to help with the restoration, but being as  I was on my way to the airport had to turn them down.   Mind you GF  then said  " well you could when you move in" 

Trouble is the barn it's stored in is not big enough to get some decent photos.

 

There is a group running a restored interuban car (towing a generator on a trolley) in the area, on some Sundays...but for moment I cant think of the name. 

 

 

 

Trev.

 

 

 

[pH]

There is a group running a restored interuban car (towing a generator on a trolley) in the area, on some Sundays...but for moment I cant think of the name. 

 

Fraser Valley Historical Railway Society at Cloverdale, Trev:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86469-some-random-west-coast-pics/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1473925