Dapol Hall

[Tricky-CRS]

Dapol Members model Mottram Hall arrived today. Very nice model, wheels not that made and the colour difference between the drivers and ponies is not that noticeable, Of course when running as intended it is not noticeable. I am very happy with my Hall, some left so I would recommend if you want Mottram in GWR on tender join the club and get one.

[Butler Henderson]

From postings on the Yahoo N Gauge group it appears that all the lined versions are incorrect with the BR examples for instance incorrectly having the firebox's lined. Apparently Dapol on their twitter site claim they are based on photos.

[leachsprite4]

I'd missed that extra lining on the br version, to which I agree this would not be the norm.

 

I am begining to think Dapol have access to some very rare photos!

 

Graham

[grahame]

I'm no expert but the photo in the link you posted seems to show the driving wheels with a "sheen" on them that looks very similar to the effect Dapol have recreated.

 

Yes, to some extent I'd agree. The wheels in that pic certainly don't look as black as the smoke box and cylinders; they've got a grey tinge to them by being not absolutely deep/pitch black, although perhaps the Dapol version is lighter still. Still at least they're not fat with oversized flanges and chromium shiny.

 

G.

[Butler Henderson]

I would suggest dulled/lightened by steam/oil/track dirt and its all wheels not simply the drivers - what the photo also shows up is the spoked tender wheels compared to the solid disc wheels offered by Dapol

[RWJP]

Just received my Mottram Hall and can only convey my highest praises to Dapol.

 

Looks fantastic, runs even better... Can a modeller ask for much more? I also agree with Tricky, the wheels are pretty good, still not exactly right in my opinion, but much better than the Britannia.

 

Congratulations Dapol on a fantastic model, do you fancy doing some more GWR 4-6-0s? A Castle to the same standards as the Hall and Ixion's Manor would really go down a treat!

 

Ross

[Woodsidebeer]

Just been comparing Mottram Hall to Cookham Manor - not a lot between them - they are both superb (still not sure about the motion on Cookham though...) - but what a difference to the sort of thing the market took for granted a few years ago - I put Farish's Raveningham Hall next to Mottram - oh dear, oh dear.

 

Luckily we still have Ixion's Mogul to come (any news on that, anyone? They seem to have gone off to play with the big boys...) plus the 2-8-0 from Dapol - again, all's gone quiet on that front.

 

So, Bachmann, what are you going to respond with - about time you raised the game with a show stopper. Try a Bulleid Pacific, and retire those metal tubes on rollers you've been hawking for years!

[Karhedron]

Luckily we still have Ixion's Mogul to come (any news on that, anyone? They seem to have gone off to play with the big boys...)

Now scheduled for 2012 apparently. Each model from Ixion finances the next so they need the sales from their 7mm venture to pay for the Mogul.

 

plus the 2-8-0 from Dapol - again, all's gone quiet on that front.

On the back burner according to their website, I think the Hall took its place in the queue. The 2884 usually ran with a 3500 gallon Churchward tender which is quite a small space to fit a DCC socket into, Ixion couldn't do it with the Manor. Dapol sensibly want large locos like the 2884 to be part of their Platinum range which includes DDC-ready in the spec.

 

This leaves them in a quandry. Do they ask Ixion for permission to use their existing tender, thus saving some R&D costs but missing out on the platinum label? Do they duplicate the effort and try to design their own 3500 gallon tender and try to squeeze a socket in there? Or do they try the slightly more spacious 4000 gallon tender with the Hall and leave the 2884 for another time.

 

I like the GWR 2-8-0s but I can understand Dapol's decision and I think the Hall is a more useful loco in many ways. I am looking forward to Gossington Hall although I might just have to get myself a green one to tide me over.

[Roy L S]

Just been comparing Mottram Hall to Cookham Manor - not a lot between them - they are both superb (still not sure about the motion on Cookham though...) - but what a difference to the sort of thing the market took for granted a few years ago - I put Farish's Raveningham Hall next to Mottram - oh dear, oh dear.

 

Luckily we still have Ixion's Mogul to come (any news on that, anyone? They seem to have gone off to play with the big boys...) plus the 2-8-0 from Dapol - again, all's gone quiet on that front.

 

So, Bachmann, what are you going to respond with - about time you raised the game with a show stopper. Try a Bulleid Pacific, and retire those metal tubes on rollers you've been hawking for years!

 

Well....

 

I think Bachmann already have a "showstopper" of their own in their most recent steam release, namely the B1. In all honesty, very nice though the Dapol Hall undoubtedly is, no question about that, I cannot see any area where it betters the B1 at all, and in a number of areas to me the Bachmann model is superior, especially in terms of attention to detail and finish.

 

If it is a future release you mean, I dont think you need to look any further than the soon to be released A1 - now that really does look superb, and with that big 4 axle drive tender will doubtless pull the side off a proverbial house!

 

Next after that will be the Standard 5MT 4-6-0, apparently now loco drive with a coreless motor and heavy chassis - prototype seen at the Bachmann open day.

 

And... oh yeah, WD 2-8-0 again loco drive, presumably same spec as Std 5.

 

Not to forget.. J39....now that one I am really looking forward to:-)

 

So, safe to say I think that Bachmann's responses are well in hand and look likely to raise the bar even further which is great news for us modellers (If not our wallets!).

 

Regards

 

Roy

[Dr Al]

Dapol Hall improved:

 

 

Improvements taken:

 

- detail parts fitted

- stupid grey wheels painted black

- axle ends of bogie wheels painted black

- crossheads have been thinned down to reduce their significantly overscale heavy look

- all black parts of the motion (crossheads, holding bolts) painted gunmetal to match the rest of the motion

 

Still to do:

 

- replace the front numbers with ones of the correct font

- paint the cab interior black (it's currently green......)

- possibly further thin the crossheads

 

To me the wheel improvements show that the arguments that grey wheels are correct don't wash . Fortunately Humbrol 85 does wash....

 

Regards,

Alan

[Kris]

The fixes that you have done Alan really do justice to the model. It's a shame that these need doing, but at least they are all easy to do, rather than effort required trying to make the old farish model look even halfway decent.

[Roy L S]

Dapol Hall improved:

 

 

Improvements taken:

 

- detail parts fitted

- stupid grey wheels painted black

- axle ends of bogie wheels painted black

- crossheads have been thinned down to reduce their significantly overscale heavy look

- all black parts of the motion (crossheads, holding bolts) painted gunmetal to match the rest of the motion

 

Still to do:

 

- replace the front numbers with ones of the correct font

- paint the cab interior black (it's currently green......)

- possibly further thin the crossheads

 

To me the wheel improvements show that the arguments that grey wheels are correct don't wash . Fortunately Humbrol 85 does wash....

 

Regards,

Alan

 

Lovely Job Alan,

 

All relatively minor things but such a massive improvement.

 

I would have though everything that you have done would be "do-able" in the factory with little bother at all.

 

Hopefully Dave J will have had a look and realise what a massive difference it makes to get little details like that correct. It looks superb.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[TomE]

As others have said Alan, thats a massive improvement. Nice job!

 

Tom.

[Butler Henderson]

Hopefully Dave J will have had a look and realise what a massive difference it makes to get little details like that correct. It looks superb.

 

I also hope DJ is learning from it , put it this way they is no way I am buying one as presently produced but if sold RTR like this then I would and I suspect that goes for many. Oh and sort out the lining and the missing fire iron tunnel as well.

[rprodgers]

Alan very well done, thoroughly agree with your comments re the wheels, painting the wheels and motions "pulls" the model together :D

 

Another factor ...or is it the lighting have you just sprayed the model with a satin varnish ?

 

This makes the green more believable bringing together the green (which on the untouched Dapol appears too light) with the lining which now appears more "toned" down

 

 

Paul

[Dr Al]

Another factor ...or is it the lighting have you just sprayed the model with a satin varnish ?

 

No, this is the standard finish, photographed in sunlight.

 

Regards,

Alan

[Dr Al]

I also hope DJ is learning from it

 

I'm getting tired of doing Dapol's R&D for them, as well as product testing (of all those first run failures - I fully expect this model to pack up now that I've improved it....)......

 

 

Cheers,

Alan

[RWJP]

I've just painted the wheels on my Mottram Hall, and it's a huge improvement. I'm probably going to do the same as Alan and paint the motion too.

 

As has been said, these are only small things, but it's a shame we've had to do them in the first place. My model is fantastic, no doubt about it, but there are certain little flaws that simply shouldn't exist on a modern model, even with the "We have prototype photos that show it" excuse.

 

Ross

[craymill]

leachsprite4, I think you are correct - after consulting livery and other books I have - it seems that between the end of WW2 and Nationalisation when the G W R tender livery was in use it was not applied to Halls, they only got G crest W like the Castles, Kings, Saints and Stars. For Granges and Manors and what the GW considered 'lesser' engines, G W R was the order of the day. It does seem however that the G W R livery has been (incorrectly IMO) used in preservation on Halls.

So I believe the correct tender liveries for GW Halls should be :-

1. "Great logo Western" if built before 1934.

2. Shirtbutton if built or repainted between 1934 and WW2.

3. Your guess is as good as mine during WW2 ! Photos are hard to find.

4. G crest W if repainted after WW2 but before BR repainting took place. The last unmodified Hall was built during the war.

With the exception of the wartime period the above would all have been lined out.

Dave

[Chris Higgs]

I've just painted the wheels on my Mottram Hall, and it's a huge improvement. I'm probably going to do the same as Alan and paint the motion too.

 

As has been said, these are only small things, but it's a shame we've had to do them in the first place. My model is fantastic, no doubt about it, but there are certain little flaws that simply shouldn't exist on a modern model, even with the "We have prototype photos that show it" excuse.

 

Ross

 

I am always hearing these are only small things. What would constitute a large thing, please?

 

To the average N gauge model purchaser (as opposed to competent modeller), doing a good job of painting the wheels black is probably quite daunting.

 

Chris

[Butler Henderson]

Well they seem to have listened and....

 

are they colour blind to what colour black is :banghead:

[leachsprite4]

Dave,

 

Thanks I was begining to think I was a single voice. However by pure chnace today I was talking to friend about this. He has had a chat with his dad about this who thinks he once saw an unlined hall with GWR on the tender at the end of second world ward, however it was very very dirty so could have been lined!

 

Either way the models that have been released to date do not seem accurate from a livery perspective.

 

Now having handled one of these engines they are great and wheels are not as bad but Dr Al model proves the point as it looks excellent.

 

As an earlier note and refernce I am a Dapol fan and own a lot of their products including 3 auto tanks, 2 45xx, an M7, 9f, a terrier, a class 73 and a B1. All have been great performers from the start excluding an autotank where the lube had dried prior to puchase but Dapol sorted this quickly for me and all pull more than i need for my railway. I just don't think the Hall is quite there for what really is very close to being better than the brit.

[craymill]

Dave,

 

Thanks I was begining to think I was a single voice. However by pure chnace today I was talking to friend about this. He has had a chat with his dad about this who thinks he once saw an unlined hall with GWR on the tender at the end of second world ward, however it was very very dirty so could have been lined!

 

Either way the models that have been released to date do not seem accurate from a livery perspective.

 

Now having handled one of these engines they are great and wheels are not as bad but Dr Al model proves the point as it looks excellent.

 

As an earlier note and refernce I am a Dapol fan and own a lot of their products including 3 auto tanks, 2 45xx, an M7, 9f, a terrier, a class 73 and a B1. All have been great performers from the start excluding an autotank where the lube had dried prior to puchase but Dapol sorted this quickly for me and all pull more than i need for my railway. I just don't think the Hall is quite there for what really is very close to being better than the brit.

 

It may have been black! Allegedly many GW engines were painted black during the war, however colour pictures are rare to non-existent and you wouldn't be able to tell from a B&W one.

I've got quite a few Dapol engines too and in the main happy with them although the 48xx (14xx) in shirtbutton is a very strange shade of green and I'm not totally convinced by my shirtbutton Manor from Ixion which was made by Dapol.

Dapol don't seem to have a consistent approach to GW green - my 45xx and 14xx are much more acceptable and the best recent GW engine I have is the Peco 2251 also in shirtbutton where the green looks spot on.

Dave

[Coach bogie]

I have read with interest all the comments regarding the wheel colour yet no -one appears concerned that Dapol have produced a body for a Hall that should only carry numbers between 4901 and 5919.

 

If painting the wheels could be daunting, as has been suggested, then how will owners cope with cutting out and painting the missing fire iron casing? All the models I have seen do not have this feature yet should do so for the number it carries. I have just checked the images on Hattons web site, in case I havve seen rogue examples, but neither 5935 or 6952 have this feature.

 

If Bachmann can take the trouble to produce different bodies for the different batches in 4mm, then why can't Dapol in 2mm?

 

To illustrate what I am describing, the shot below shows the fire iron casing as reproduced by Bachmann. It is the casing between the middle and rear splashers, rising upwards at the cab end.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Kris]

 

If Bachmann can take the trouble to produce different bodies for the different batches in 4mm, then why can't Dapol in 2mm?

 

 

N gauge is a far smaller market than OO so the chances of getting a return out of 2 different bodies as opposed to one is also much smaller. Similar comments have been made about the HST and the cooling vents (or was it the exhaust vents). Given that the market for the HST is likely to be larger than that for the Hall and Dapol felt they could not make a profit on 2 different moldings for that then not having 2 moldings for the Halls seems to make sense to me.