Midford Pontification

[Chris Nevard]

This started on the Model Rail 159 SDJR Special Issue - but though it wise to move the Midford Masterplan to its own section

 

This is a project I'd love to do, but until I convert the garage nothing too much will happen, and then there are all the other existing projects that need a home

 

Here is a more achievable shelf idea, but the fiddle yards could be a bit scary when handling the Pines, so it might suit a 1963-66 scenario when passenger trains where generally just 3 carriages.

 

How would others approach it? Don't worry, this is just a bit of armchair pontificating and it won't end up in print!

 

[buffalo]

Lovely idea, Chris. I've often thought of doing a small layout with just the goods yard, or maybe extending it to include the station. I don't have room for anything more, but including the valley with the viaduct and Camerton branch as you have here would give scope for some exceptional landscaping. Don't stay in the armchair too long, get out and convert the garage

 

Nick

[PaulRhB]

The only things I would sugest would be maybe trying to mirror the flow of the viaduct with the boards to give a bit more depth at the rear so you won't get shadows on the backscene and if you were to exhibit it then maybe have the option to connect the two fiddleyards back to back to make a long one and two minimal semi circles at either end that aren't used at home. I used this on my G scale and the corner boards are just wide enough so that nothing strikes the sides and they are an H shape with the track sat in the H if you see what I mean, very light and strong and easy to store. I used 9mm ply for the deck and 3mm ply for the sides to support 5kg G scale locos.

Here's it in exhibit mode with the two end on 3 coach yards back to back. (they are fans of sidings rather than sector plates)

[PaulRhB]

and then there are all the other existing projects that need a home

 

Go vertical with Midford on top at eye level on a stool and the other layouts underneath sat on a chair or gain more room by taking up Yoga

[queensquare]

This started on the Model Rail 159 SDJR Special Issue - but though it wise to move the Midford Masterplan to its own section

 

This is a project I'd love to do, but until I convert the garage nothing too much will happen, and then there are all the other existing projects that need a home

 

Here is a more achievable shelf idea, but the fiddle yards could be a bit scary when handling the Pines, so it might suit a 1963-66 scenario when passenger trains where generally just 3 carriages.

 

How would others approach it? Don't worry, this is just a bit of armchair pontificating and it won't end up in print!

 

Hi Chris,

I rarely buy Model Rail but got the S&D issue and thoroughly enjoyed it, a cracking read.

 

As for Midford, it would make a fascinating model. Rather than moving to the 1963-66 period to make the trains more manageable why not go back to the 1920's. The 'Pines' or its predeccessor 'The Manchester Diner' was a six coach set on weekdays rising to about eight on summer saturdays - Midland red coaches with one or two Prussian blue locos at the head - tempted?

To really do Midford justice would take up a lot of room. As some may know I am very slowly building Bath c.mid 1920's in 2FS in my workshop and had long had thoughts of putting Midford down the other side of the room. However, I couldn't come up with a plan that satisfied and finally settled on the southern portal of Combe Down tunnel, Tucking Mill viaduct and a short freelance section that will incorporate Highbury before entering the fiddle yard.

I would love to see somebody realy do Midford justice - it would make a stunning model particularly in 2mm/N. It would be nice to move away from the shelf idea and really give it some depth and take full advantage of the trains in the landscape approach - given the time and the space I would do it myself.

 

As a side issue, Bath was known locally as the Midland station until renamed Green Park in the early 50's. As far as I know only Bradshaws used the name Queensquare - although thats the name I like hence my avatar!

 

regards Jerry

[RJS1977]

I seem to remember seeing a model of Midford in N gauge a few years ago, but with the Camerton branch slewed at more of an angle to enable continuous running on that line as well. 'Thunderbolt' was known to put in appearances!

 

In fact, for a space-starved location, it might be easier to model the Camerton branch with Midford viaduct as a scenic break (complete with Dapol Bulleid Pacific!)......

 

 

Ironically when I first started in the mapping department of my current employer, the first map to cross my desk was of Midford!

 

Richard

[Brinkly]

First of all Chris how big will this plan be excluding fiddle yards, because that is the first thing to consider, as 3 Hawskworths and a Collett Goods will total nearly 4ft in lenght.

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Go vertical with Midford on top at eye level on a stool and the other layouts underneath sat on a chair or gain more room by taking up Yoga

 

I think that is by far the best way of doing it (and strange to relate 'the room' built into slightly more than half of my double garage already has a band of 'blue with white bits' that starts at a bit above chest level and goes all the way to the ceiling - saves painting in any sky when there's not enough room to work with a roller)

[Captain Kernow]

How would others approach it?

Presumably you are aware of how Simon Castens did this many years ago in his student digs - a continuous run, and that is how I would do it. You can't do Midford justice and just be limited to the kinds of trains that the S&D saw in it's dying days (3 coach locals and hardly any freight). You need length to run the Pines and Summer Saturday trains, plus some decent length freight trains - how about the 2.40 Mails at night?

[Chris Nevard]

I want to sit down and watch 40 wagon coal trains rumbling through like at Pendon - sadly I fear it's a long way off with all my other goings on! One day though, and it's certainly with chucking some ideas about. Maybe it's about time there was a SDJR rival to that known museum in Oxfordshire - spare warehouse anyone? Don't take anything I say too literally though!

[Brinkly]

Don't take anything I say too literally though!

 

Nevard wan't a barn! All hands to the pumps! But seriously I would turn it into a roundy-round to have nice long trains as Tim suggested. You could start building the scenic section though to the available footprint and as a temporary measure have smaller fiddle yards?

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

[tingleytim]

Congratulations on August’s Somerset and Dorset issue withits inspirational layouts and information about the prototype.

 

Chris, you were a bit too restrictive in saying on page 56that “9Fs were never used on goods trainsâ€. They did work the 20.10 up freight from Poole to Bath, a working whichwas part of one of Bath MPD’s daily passenger diagrams. In August 1963, 9Fs 92220 and 92224 were usedon these diagrams. 92220 must have workedthis train on 26^th August. Isaw it working south that day on the 16.13 from Evercreech Junction to Bournemouth and working southagain the next morning on the 09.03 Bristol to Bournemouth train, so it musthave worked northwards somehow and the only other train was hauled by astandard 4. The two 9Fs were used onBath’s diagrams right through that week and probably worked the 20.10 on fourdays, standard 5s being in charge on the other two days.

 

The only photographof this train I know of is one I took myself a year later when 73092 wasin charge. It seems unlikely that anyonewould have photographed it headed by a 9F but I would love to see one!

 

The 02.40 down mail from Bath to Poole was also part of theBath diagrams and 9Fs would have hauled these probably for four of the six daysthat week. This used to arrive in Pooleat about 7am and so was even more difficult to photograph than the up freight. It consisted of a short parcels train on thethree occasions I saw it at Poole.

 

I would speculate that these two trains would have seenregular 9F use during the four summers (1960 to 1963) that they were allocatedto Bath.

 

So S&D modellers doing Midford or elsewhere should notbe totally restricted from using 9Fs on freight, though I might just bemotivated to take issue if the freight looked to be one of the Bath toEvercreech or Midsomer Norton workings!

 

I wonder if 9Fs ever worked the heavy perishables train(20.25 up from Templecombe) which usually had a Bath loco. That would be a fine sight on a model.

 

 

[Chris Nevard]

Thanks for this Tingleytim- this will be good news for modellers. I guess lack of any photographic evidence is how this came about - mists of time and ll that - cheers!

 

Chris

[JohnR]

Doesnt the absence of Midford Ground Frame B on the south side of the viaduct limit this to 1960 or later? Could add a bit more interest if it was included.

[Chris Nevard]

I guess there's nothing stopping anyone from adding it (I probably would do). These plans are only to stimulate ideas, not the definitive answer. I don't think I've ever see a photo of anything actually in it. I gather through, when a down goods wanted to place a wagon in it, the loco of a down goods at Midford yard would uncouple, take refuge in Midford goods yard, the stock required would then be released from the main train to run down past the good yard entrance by gravity. The loco would then recouple and propel the wagon(s) down through the station into the siding. Does anyone know what it might have been used for? Coal, PW vehicles?

[2ManySpams]

Oooh Midford. I had a massive modelling crush on this station about 10 years ago, visited the site, took loads of photos and drew plans. It's a small(ish) station with lots of levels, a viaduct (crossing road, rail and water) and a tunnel. All in all a modeler's dream.....apart from the length of the through trains. And that's what stopped me**, along with the fact that much of the stock needed wasn't available RTR (7F, 3F, rebuilt Bulleid, Maunsell coaches, etc).

 

Like many others here, i'd also go for a roundy roundy format, as I couldn't dream of having Midford without the big trains, Pines, double headed expresses etc. And that's the problem with this location. To do it justice needs a good sized fiddle yard. Mind you Averton Hammer seems to incorporate lots of signature S&D in a big room. Smaller three coach trains would be different, seldom done, but in this case a picture only half painted.

 

**Old gringo, John, also stopped me as he came up with the idea to build Treneglos, but that's another story....

[RTJ]

I too had a 'crush' on Midford for reasons I think I've already stated. Last year I tried to build the viaduct (more-or-less to scale). I enclose a pic I took with the ex-GWR bridge underneath. Pity it was too big! Mind you my Wellow is also proving to be oversize for the garage.

 

I also enclose a pic/scan of two of the original drawings for the 'real' viaduct. I think I have the complete lot but please be warned that they are NOT for general consumption. If they are of any interest please send me a PM.Their quality is not that good.

 

Many years ago I was walking in the Goods yard at Midford with my late mother when she dropped the bombshell that when her parents moved from Templecombe to Bath they had contemplated buying Midford Castle but were put off by the shape of the rooms. Just think of the views i would have had if only they had bought it - but then Life is full of 'if only so's' isn't it? Instead they moved to Midford Road.

 

I hope to publicise pics of my Wellow layout soon.

 

Bw to all, and thanks to all concerned for the S&D articles in RM this month.

 

BW

 

Richard.

 

PS For anyone interested in the Midford area I do have some webpages which I hope will be of interest (non-S&D related). They make use of Google Maps.

 

See: http://rtjhomepages.users.btopenworld.com/index.html

[Chris Nevard]

Thanks for posting these Richard! I'm guessing that these are also available via the SDRT along with buildings maybe?

[RTJ]

Thanks for posting these Richard! I'm guessing that these are also available via the SDRT along with buildings maybe?

 

Hi Chris, Yes I believe I obtained them by email after contacting SDRT -but asking me not to make them generally available. Buildings - I didn't ask about but I seem to recall some very good scale drawings -perhaps in "The Pines" sometime ago.

Perhaps someone with a better filing system than mine will know more...?

 

Best wishes,

 

Richard.

 

PS do you mind divulging the software you use to 'glue' your fantastic pictures together to give such an excellent depth of field?

[Blandford1969]

Thanks for posting these Richard! I'm guessing that these are also available via the SDRT along with buildings maybe?

 

Fascinating plans. Mike Arletts book is currently being updated with more information and is going to be re released within the next year.

 

Of getting copies, there is an issue in getting hold of someone from the trust to be able to get copies - Maybe oneday the plans will be on the website?

 

I have checked what is available for Midford and those of the station are the ones done for Mike's book on Midford.

 

Did'nt I read that all the archives were going to the Somerset Record Office?

[Dazzler Fan]

Chris: Have you considered setting your era in the 1930's with 6-wheel passenger stock, and

maybe shorter rakes also of coal wagons, behind a 0-4-4 or 0-6-0 tanks.

[Chris Nevard]

Nah - then I'd have to mess about with brass and I really don't have the time or the skills (or interest). Midford is only speculative and will probably not happen for years at the current rate...

[Combe Martin]

Congratulations on August’s Somerset and Dorset issue withits inspirational layouts and information about the prototype.

 

Chris, you were a bit too restrictive in saying on page 56that “9Fs were never used on goods trains”. They did work the 20.10 up freight from Poole to Bath, a working whichwas part of one of Bath MPD’s daily passenger diagrams. In August 1963, 9Fs 92220 and 92224 were usedon these diagrams. 92220 must have workedthis train on 26^th August. Isaw it working south that day on the 16.13 from Evercreech Junction to Bournemouth and working southagain the next morning on the 09.03 Bristol to Bournemouth train, so it musthave worked northwards somehow and the only other train was hauled by astandard 4. The two 9Fs were used onBath’s diagrams right through that week and probably worked the 20.10 on fourdays, standard 5s being in charge on the other two days.

 

The only photographof this train I know of is one I took myself a year later when 73092 wasin charge. It seems unlikely that anyonewould have photographed it headed by a 9F but I would love to see one!

 

The 02.40 down mail from Bath to Poole was also part of theBath diagrams and 9Fs would have hauled these probably for four of the six daysthat week. This used to arrive in Pooleat about 7am and so was even more difficult to photograph than the up freight. It consisted of a short parcels train on thethree occasions I saw it at Poole.

 

I would speculate that these two trains would have seenregular 9F use during the four summers (1960 to 1963) that they were allocatedto Bath.

 

So S&D modellers doing Midford or elsewhere should notbe totally restricted from using 9Fs on freight, though I might just bemotivated to take issue if the freight looked to be one of the Bath toEvercreech or Midsomer Norton workings!

 

I wonder if 9Fs ever worked the heavy perishables train(20.25 up from Templecombe) which usually had a Bath loco. That would be a fine sight on a model.

 

I know this is not quite 'Midford', but I've never found anyone who knows the composition of the 20.25 up perishables from Templecombe. It dosn't seem to have been photographed, presumably because it was dark !. Does anyone know ?

[tingleytim]

 

I know this is not quite 'Midford', but I've never found anyone who knows the composition of the 20.25 up perishables from Templecombe. It dosn't seem to have been photographed, presumably because it was dark !. Does anyone know ?

 

 

 

 

There’s a fine article in SDRT Bulletin 129 by S&D guard Bernard Ware about the 20.25 “Perisher”. It lists the following vehicles: cattle truck, gangwayed brake, general utility van, parcels and miscellaneous van, fitted van, stove R, special cattle van, horse box, brake van, syphon, and covered carriage truck.

It was generally a bigger train at the start of the week, the Jan 63 week quoted having 17,15,15,11 and 9 vehicles Monday to Friday.

I saw it twice from the 19.05 Bath to Bournemouth train. On Monday 10 August 64 it had no fewer than 22 vehicles behind 73052 at Wincanton. I had earlier seen 75073 light at Evercreech and would speculate that it would have assisted 73052 from there to Binegar, probably with more vehicles from the branch. That would be a fine sight to see or model! On Wednesday 28 July 65 it had 7 vehicles behind 80039 just north of Templecombe, probably a victim of WR re-routing, but still hanging on in there in the S&D’s last summer.

I don’t recall seeing any pictures of the “Perisher” but will keep a look out. There weren’t any with the article which might mean there aren’t any to be found.

Back to 9Fs for a moment. I had forgotten that Bath did have a 9F – 92214 – in 1964, shown in the last of Ivo Peters’ series. So the class could have been used on the freights mentioned before from 1960 to 1964.

[Combe Martin]

So it was the nearest thing to a parcels train that the S&D had, bearing in mind that all the other trains photographers claimed to be parcels were pigeon specials !