'CHARD Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Further to the slow speed bunch, I reckon I've now whittled down the last survivors in green, from photographic records.At Xmas 1968 I reckon 5319 was on the cusp of becoming blue, 5318 was destined to remain blue green well into '69, 5335 was GFYE and 5338 was still in GSYP, going blue in late '69. With the exception of 5300-06, this must surely be the quickest ScR reliverying job of the transition era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi Ron, Yes i think all these abbreviations are getting us confused, I blame Chard for all this . Basically early bfy to me meant anything pre wrap around yellow, I should of written it better as eBFYE (arrows on cabs and numbers on bodyside), so should it be lBFYE ? (numbers on cabs and arrow on centre of body with yellow front). So just to confirm what I meant: D5319 GSY with tablet recess and catcher 5319 BFY arrows in centre of body with number under second mans window, with tablet recess and connecting doors. 5319 BFY yellow wrapped round windows, arrows in centre of body and number under second mans window, connecting doors sealed. Hope that makes sense For a bit of fun and to add to the confusion who wants to come up with the abbreviations for liveries carried by the class, you had: 1 - All over green with white windows and stripe. 2 - Green with small yellow panel, white windows and stripe. 3 - Green with full yellow front, white cabside windows and stripe. 4 - Green with full yellow front, green cabside windows and no stripe (economy green). 5 - Blue with yellow front, numbers on bodyside and arrows on all four cab corners. 6 - Blue with yellow front, numbers on bodyside and arrows on two cab corners. 7 - Blue with yellow front, numbers on all four cab corners and arrow on centre of body. 8 - Blue with yellow front, numbers on two cab corners and arrow on centre of body. 9 - Blue with yellow front, numbers on two cab corners and arrow on all four cab doors. 10 - Blue with wrap around yellow front, numbers on bodyside and arrows on two cab corners. 11 - Blue with wrap around yellow front, numbers on all four cab corners and arrow on centre of body. 12 - Blue with wrap around yellow front, numbers on two cab corners and arrow on centre of body. 13 - TOPS Blue with yellow front. 14 - TOPS Blue with wrap around yellow front. Don't think I missed any Trevor. Well, MY usual acronyms for these are; 1 - GNYE, 2 - GSYP, 3 - GFYE 4 - eGSYP, eGFYE, 5 - Plain EB, 6 - Plain EB, (never thought of a distinction between two or four sets of arrows as it never happened that often, only on locos with tablet recess) 7 - Plain BFYE 8 - Plain BFYE (see 6), 9 - Ah......Probably something like GWKS EB, 10 - eBFYE, 11 - BFYE, 12 - BFYE (see 6..again) 13 - Plain BFYE/TOPS 14 - BFYE/TOPS 13/14 would probably be superfluous, as if you're describing 26015 to be in BFYE, you'd know it was TOPS-numbered anyway.... Rgds, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 ... 13/14 would probably be superfluous, as if you're describing 26015 to be in BFYE, you'd know it was TOPS-numbered anyway.... Oi, the last thing we want is people simplifying this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Orientation of '5319' suggests to me that's her first blue guise; no 'D' whatsoever. And now I have no choice. See you tomorrow, Hattons.... I have been having a trawl and found this:- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Oh that is very tasty looking. Seems like it was a bit of a soap-dodger, old '19. I'm torn between blue and green for this, but for December '68 I'm tending towards the latter. Interestingly, by this point in time, or by this, the twentieth in the build, straight-sided rather than tapered bogie footsteps have been adopted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 . Interestingly, by this point in time, or by this, the twentieth in the build, straight-sided rather than tapered bogie footsteps have been adopted. There are inconsistencies around this number range that I've never really resolved, like 5320 with its oval buffers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I reckon 5318-21 or thereabouts were Friday afternoon jobs, and such details were decided after refreshment had been taken in one or other Mitchells & Butlers establishment around Middlemore Lane! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 There are inconsistencies around this number range that I've never really resolved, like 5320 with its oval buffers. D5320 was new with Oleo's. Does anybody know whether it had ovals fitted whilst it was still GSYP? Also for obvious reasons I am researching the various detail differences during the transition of the 26/0 from green to blue with particular reference to the exhaust outlet repositioning and the sealing up of the gangway doors. It appears that D5302 may have lasted for quite some time in GSYP with the original features, again does anybody know when these features got altered? Backdating these is harder than you think! One thing I have noticed is that the ScR did not appear to want to operate most of its 26/0's under overhead live wires until they were painted blue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh what a beauty! Cabside detail close-up of D5335 GFYE: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=37763 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Wrong end though, it's all flat and boring Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm pondering the significance of the twin stars of David on the BRCW makers' plate... And if we get an 'other end,' can we make it 5319's, please!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 D5320 was new with Oleo's. Does anybody know whether it had ovals fitted whilst it was still GSYP? Also for obvious reasons I am researching the various detail differences during the transition of the 26/0 from green to blue with particular reference to the exhaust outlet repositioning and the sealing up of the gangway doors. It appears that D5302 may have lasted for quite some time in GSYP with the original features, again does anybody know when these features got altered? Backdating these is harder than you think! One thing I have noticed is that the ScR did not appear to want to operate most of its 26/0's under overhead live wires until they were painted blue! I have a shot of D5302 in blue, which suggests it was done, pre-1968. The gangway doors have been sealed up, but it retains the original cab-door. Photo was taken "c1969". Certainly D5300 & D5301 lasted in GSYP until around 1972 and D5306 was another late GSYP survivor. Rgds, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I'm pondering the significance of the twin stars of David on the BRCW makers' plate... And if we get an 'other end,' can we make it 5319's, please!!! Those aren't stars of David, bro. They're five pointers as more often associated with Pagan faiths and mad Satanists/Metalheads! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Doh! They're pentangles for sure - well, these locos were sired in the birthplace of British metal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 D5320 was new with Oleo's. Does anybody know whether it had ovals fitted whilst it was still GSYP? Cant answer that, but I did find this one of it in later years, with Oleos again; http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/6825606792/ I've also noticed another of its peculiarities, the grometted 27-style centre window, which it had had from early days: http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmsdale_org/2892443294/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzeruk Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 The repositioning of the exhaust outlet was done when they went in for a heavy general repair. You will also notice that the number of cant rail grilles reduced from 12 to 9 at the same time. Also, the early style of flush front smaller windows was changed out gradually as well to the exposed Claytonright rubbers like the 27s had from new. Alasdair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 The repositioning of the exhaust outlet was done when they went in for a heavy general repair. You will also notice that the number of cant rail grilles reduced from 12 to 9 at the same time. Also, the early style of flush front smaller windows was changed out gradually as well to the exposed Claytonright rubbers like the 27s had from new. Bit confused by this Alasdair, some clarification would be appreciated. By HGR, are we talking about the mid-80s refurbs during which some machines went into Railfreight grey? I'd always understood that the exhausts were repositioned far earlier than that, back in the '60s, and I'd also always been under the impression that the 9/12 differential in the main bank of shoulder grilles was a key difference between 26/0s and 26/1s, not anything to do with refurbishment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I too have been studying the variations in order to find a simple way of backdating the current Heljan 26/0. As far as I can make out none of the shoulder grilles got reduced in number but D5302 appears maybe not to have had the engine exhaust modified until it went blue in 1968. Backdating the tooling would probably have to be carried out in two stages especially to cater for the early exhaust arrangements but the sealing up of the front gangway doors was also carried out quite early on also, The chassis presents no problem because the air reserviors and fuel/water tanks are a clip on and can be swapped about.D5319 would probably be the only one you couldn't produce easily in it's Scottish form. It is interesting to note also that D5300, D5301 and possibly D5306 were still carrying their original green paintwork from 1958 until 1971/2. The running numbers on D5300 were in a higher position and the BR crest on D5301 'A' side was on the radiator end rather than the 'B' end. Both were outshopped new from BRC&W like this. I have managed to track down photographs of the majority of the first twenty and it is also quite surprising that most of them lacked the OHLW plaques until they were painted blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 The repositioning of the exhaust outlet was done when they went in for a heavy general repair. You will also notice that the number of cant rail grilles reduced from 12 to 9 at the same time. Also, the early style of flush front smaller windows was changed out gradually as well to the exposed Claytonright rubbers like the 27s had from new. Alasdair Windscreen rubbers I can agree on, but cantrail grilles were never reduced to 9 from 12. OLEO round buffers became commonplace on /0s and coil replaced leaf spring secondary suspension. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 ...but cantrail grilles were never reduced to 9 from 12. . I'm no maths graduate Chard, but I think I can safely say that *nothing* has ever been reduced from 9 to 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I'm no maths graduate Chard, but I think I can safely say that *nothing* has ever been reduced from 9 to 12 Was yer reading any better than yer sums? He writes, wondering if some rapier wit has just passed him by Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Aw chisel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzeruk Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 You are right gents, I am talking pish about the change of grilles. 26004 at Bo'ness, the grilles at the end nearest the triple pump have been blanked internally where I thought that they had been chopped outside as well. The removal of the silencer was a fairly involved job by the looks of it internally. The AVR was moved from on top of the triplepump to the top of the cubicle where the silencer sat. The first heavy general repairs (now F anf G exams in modern speak!) would have usually been in 6 years from introduction which seemed to be a standardish BR time scale, 8000 hours running time then. The first locos appear to have steel storm drains on the cantrail, all the later ones have aluminium slats. I presume this was for weight saving. I think 2 locos were preserved with leaf spring primary suspension rather than coil spring as well. The first 3 also had the lamp brakets in different places as well if I remember correctly. Alasdair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzeruk Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Just having a browse of Flicr for pics. http://www.flickr.co...57605122565349/ http://www.flickr.co...57605122565349/ http://www.flickr.co...57605122565349/ A nice pic of 5361 still in green in 1973. Nice early data panel in blue. http://www.flickr.co...ckr/5861529836/ 5335 still in green in 1969 with tablet catcher. http://www.flickr.co...y42/5453698777/ Unidentified green loco in 1969 with a blue door! http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6262944837/ 5306 July 1970 http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6263469032/ 5307 July 1970 http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6262944085/in/photostream/ 5309 July 1970 http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6262943863/in/photostream/ 5300 July 1970 http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6262944399/in/photostream/ 5301 July 1970 http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6263470668/in/photostream/ 5343 July 1970 Good close up of a tablet cather recess The above couple of pics are part of a huge archive, well worth a trawl through. Alasdair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzeruk Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 26010 still has leaf spring bogies. http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/2006e/26010_2.htm 26014 also has them. http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/2006c/26014_2.htm Alasdair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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