RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've hinted I'm intending to create a 3rd Challenge entry, and have briefly outlined my idea elsewhere in response to questions, so I thought I'd start a thread to expand the theory a bit more. What I want to create is the view from a carriage window, as the train passes over an urban level crossing. The nearby scaled items will be 7mm ( or larger) reducing to 4mm at the back, as the viewer looks along the length of the 20" module. Given that a real Mk1 carriage window is approx 6 ft across ( unless someone can give me more accurate dimensions) then I'll need to make the model window about 6 to 8 inches across. The only view of the diorama will be through this window, allowing me to use a forced perspective - an idea pinched with grateful thanks from the Viewpoint challenge entry. There is also just over 2 months left to complete this, so I'll have to get a move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted July 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2011 Sounds like an interesting plan, I have tried on several occasions to photograph the view from carriage windows as it does create interesting perspectives. I would suggest a bit of caution / experimentation with the size of the "window" You seem to be thinking about the scale size of the window but bear in mind the viewer will not have a scale sized head and therefore their eyes will be in the wrong place! My eyes are 3" apart which means they cover the middle 50% of your proposed window. If you are sitting next to a real window looking out it would me like looking through a 6" wide box instead of looking straight out the window. You lose all your peripheral vision and mess with your brain's ability to deal with perspective. Even standing the other side of the carriage and looking out would not create that image. I would try various masks across the aperture until you get one you like. It would definitely add to the impact if you make a model window frame complete with the appropriate top vents, rather than just a single aperture ( and use the curtains as view blockers either side! Good luck anyhow - it certainly meets the "original" criterion heres some pics you might find useful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 You are almost doing what ther real railway companies used to do when taking "studio" shots of their luxurious new carriage compartments - they used to hang a photo of a beautiful scene outside the window when they took the shot - or maybe added it in later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 31, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2011 Thanks for your thoughts Colin. I am intending to model the whole window, complete with shelf and window vents. The size of the window, as you've said, is important to give the right comparative perspective. What's also important is all views will be from a camera lens, not a pair of eyes, so the image will be easier to foreshorten. These photos will hopefully turn out as Weekday Cross has mentioned, so they look, or appear to look, real... Edit - Colin, thanks also for the pictures - the first one especially captures the sort of look I want - those trees in the background look quite small, but we know of course they're not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2011 Some concept images.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Peters Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Cool, what a great twist on the brief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm normally asleep on the trip down from Paddington to Plymouth so this will be a great insight for me Very nice idea Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 This is looking like an intersting concept, the 3d mock up really conveys the idea. A scene from Father Ted came to mind whilst looking at this! Ted talking to Dougal (holding a toy cow) - This is small the ones outside are far away, small, far away. Dougal - No still don't get it Ted. Classic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 8, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2011 Can't promise there'll be any cows on this, but I like the anecdote ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted August 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2011 Bit of inspiration from Bob Symes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXoQJYqL4kw Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 9, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2011 Wow, that's brilliant Nick. I remember Bob Symes making model railway programmes when I was a youngster, thwy were always worth watching. Hoping to make a start on this very soon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 WOW what an amazing bit of film, that has made my day Can't wait to see your "From a carriage window" entry Stu To paraphrase Play School "Which widow shall we look through today..... Hmmmm I think its the carriage window" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 10, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2011 Stubby Jnr looked at the concept pictures and remarked that the buildings needed to be bigger. I think he has a point (grrr!) but in making them bigger near the window, the forced perspective at the other end ( hopefully at 4mm scale) will mean a drastic reduction in scale along a relatively short length. So , Plan B ( which was really Plan A but got rejected) will be to have the front 'train' passing over a road bridge, so the 'passengers' are looking down on to the street view. This will allow me to foreshorten the height of the near by buildings. I may also get a second viewpoint from under the bridge, looking along the road. I'll put up another concept drawing later. The reason this plan was rejected was the view from the window on a bridge was mainly of roof tops, but this time I'll also make the road rise as it goes into the distance, maybe with a fall at the far end to help hide the transition to the backscene. Thanks too for all the views & comments - no one yet has implied I'm insane for trying this either ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted August 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2011 The reason this plan was rejected was the view from the window on a bridge was mainly of roof tops, but this time I'll also make the road rise as it goes into the distance, maybe with a fall at the far end to help hide the transition to the backscene. We usually end up looking down at a model anyway, so a downward angle view from a bridge would be quite appropriate (and easier on the neck) You certainly come up with some highly original and unusual ideas Stu, and I particularly like this one. Perspective modelling only really works when seen from a fixed viewpoint, and the carriage window mask should work perfectly. All the best, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Given that a real Mk1 carriage window is approx 6 ft across ( unless someone can give me more accurate dimensions) The width is only 4ft actually. I don't know whether this would make a difference to your model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 10, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2011 Dave, thanks for the comments. I'm also hoping that the monoscopic view of a camera lens will help disguise the perspective. Multiprinter - thanks for the dimension of the window - it will only affect the relative proportions of the window - I'm still not sure exactly what size of window will work best. Here is a brief concept view, looking down from the window, over the other (or slow ) line, down to the road : This is the bonus view I get from using a higher level track : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 12, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2011 Done some planning on paper today, to see whether the idea translates into a realistic, proportional model - and I think it does. Given that I have approx 16 inches of baseboard, between the overbridges at each end, then I have four, 4 inch sections. Each section is bounded by two scale limits, eg 4mm and 5mm, so the scenery in each section will be of the larger scale. With only 7 weeks to go (and at least one of those will be non-modelling time), this is going to be another rush job ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 13, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 Made a start this morning! Found a suitable piece of 19mm melamine, so measured out the 20" x 11" baseboard size. Thinking I'd best err on the side of caution, seeing as my sawing is not always 100% straight, I drew two lines approx 1/4" inside the baseboard dimensions, so there would be no chance of my exceeding the limits. Got the trusty workmate out, in between the showers and cut the board to size. Job done! Now sat at the kitchen table ( which is suitably protected, of course, plus SWMBO is in bed after her night shift at the care home) I've started to draw out the basic plan directly onto the board. So, first I marked a 2" section for the OO overbridge on the back end, then I thought I'd add a centre line, from which to measure the varying road width. So, what's half of 11 1/2 " .........? Yep, despite measuring, twice, and cutting once, I've still c**ked things up ! I'm going to have to get the workmate out again and trim off a measly 1" off one edge.... Updates later..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted August 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 Just having a catch up Stu Do like the concept...staying tuned for more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 13, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 Ok, no more playing with concepts, here's the start of the real thing.... As the viewer looks out of the carriage window, on the right hand side of the road will be a row of four terraced houses. These will be yellow pebble dashed walls, with featured red brick embelishments around the windows and doors. More to come later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted August 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 good start...assuming you have tapered that already and its not the natural perspective... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 13, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 There's no fooling you, Pete... Yep, that was a perspective view, this is the square on version: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 14, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 14, 2011 The overbridge and high level track embankment down for the far end has been completed. I've also made a makeshift window cut out of card to gauge the relative size and camera angles, but I'm still not sure about putting the near side track on an overbridge too. Some quick calculations : In 4mm - rail head to solebar is 19mm, which in 1:1 is 4' 9", which in 1:12 scale is 57 mm In 4mm - solebar to base of window is 12mm - (3ft), which in 1:12 is 36mm. So rail height to base of window is 93mm ( a modelled height of 3.6" ) If I then add a height of the window (4"), I've only got 3.4" left of the maximum 11" height. A 15ft high road underbridge, plus the height from the roof apex to the rail head (5ft), would be (in 1:12 scale) 8.9" - so too big. So, it will have to be a track at ground level (eg a level crossing)). Here is an example photo of what's to come (please ignore the fruit bowl, candle and chocolate Santa in the background...): Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 16, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2011 Another building has been started, this time a small shop. I probably need to widen the road a bit for pavements, plus I think the underbridge is only a single track road, so I'll need some sort of traffic management system as the road narrows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragtag Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I've been fascinated by this idea, and am following with great interest. RE: the bridge and traffic: Traffic lights - http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=narrow+road+underbridge&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=738&tbm=isch&tbnid=2-FwnXMY9pwv-M:&imgrefurl=http://ukaqueducts.blogspot.com/2010/04/chester-road-underbridge-aqueduct.html&docid=g_3ILhIyvv_mHM&w=685&h=800&ei=1TZKTre4M8u48gOjxcXICQ&zoom=1 http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=road+under+bridge&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=738&tbm=isch&tbnid=1VEu-NCDo82J5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/206708&docid=vmT51eboJzKHaM&w=640&h=480&ei=VDdKTtnQH4Su8QOP7djjCQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=76&page=1&tbnh=134&tbnw=180&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=91&ty=25 Give way - http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereed/138366463/ There's a couple near me which fit two cars comfortably but where HGVs and other high-sided vehicles must use the centre of the aperture. The road is marked accordingly, but can't find any pictures at the mo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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