Heljan Beyer garratt

[46256]

Sorry to contradict myself...the work on the forward chassis. I cannot make the Current collection efficient enough for my purposes. In addition the front plastic centre wheels have. Lost the ability to remain on the knurled axle . I have therefore decided the following course of action. It is based on my previous models the nu cast since sold...and my kitmaster still I'm glad to say in my possession. This model is powered by the portescap rg4. It Is in one chassis only , the other is so free running as not too matter. I will use the Heljan upper superstructure which is superb. I will use two comet fowler 264t chassis. I will use two load hauler gear boxes with attachments and mashima motors all courtesy of high level kits. I Have the 21mm wheels. On purchasing these...and hopefully making this model work I wil have doubled my nntial purchase price....

[46256]

I have commenced rebuilding...reworking...recreating the Heljan model. I had thought to show the efforts here under the sub title how to improve the Heljan model. That would have consisted of my description of a twelve pound hammer travelling towards its target. I will however continue my description of my work on my thread Water Ortonlayout and stock. Two comet 264 t frames arrived today and battle has commenced....best wishes to all on this thread especially those who have had positive experiences unlike my own. Brian

[Nelson Jackson]

Thanks for the updates Brian, I have always long wanted a Garratt but could never save up enough before they all sold out, however perhaps I am a little thankful of this. Anyway I will be following your repairs with great interest anyway.

[46256]

Thanks for the updates Brian, I have always long wanted a Garratt but could never save up enough before they all sold out, however perhaps I am a little thankful of this. Anyway I will be following your repairs with great interest anyway.

Thank you for your kind words Nelson, as stated already posted two pictures on my Water Orton layout thread. It has to be admitted though they look more like the scrapping shed at Crewe at this time

[Widnes Model Centre]

I have commenced rebuilding...reworking...recreating the Heljan model. I had thought to show the efforts here under the sub title how to improve the Heljan model. That would have consisted of my description of a twelve pound hammer travelling towards its target. I will however continue my description of my work on my thread Water Ortonlayout and stock. Two comet 264 t frames arrived today and battle has commenced....best wishes to all on this thread especially those who have had positive experiences unlike my own. Brian

 

You could try buying another one.  It has the Aston's Auctioneers guide at £60-80. Aston's have always had very knowledgeable staff from my dealings with them.

 

 

Lot 215

OO Gauge. Heljan. LMS Beyer Garratt. No. 4978 weathered edition.

 

OO Gauge. Heljan. LMS Beyer Garratt. No. 4978 weathered edition. Overall G+ with part box

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Auction sale details

Toy & Model Railway Auction

Sale Date(s)

• 08 Jun 2017 10:00 BST

Venue Address Baylies Hall Tower Street Dudley West Midlands DY1 1NB United Kingdom

Ask auctioneer about this lot

 

Category

Models, Toys, Dolls & Games

Important information & T&C's for this Sale

 

Live Auction: 08 Jun 2017 10:00 BST

Estimate: 60 GBP - 80 GBP

Additional fees apply

 

Current bid: 40 GBP

[46256]

Much appreciated Widnes model centre....I am committed now with my reworking of the Heljan. I have also recieved from Mark another contributor and new friend gained from this website, a Ks Garratt should Heljan not work out. I am always surprised at the friendliness and goodwill that exists within our modelling ranks. Thanks Mark and all those who have shown their good wishes and support. I intend to have at the conclusion of this saga a Garratt that combines the good looks of the Heljan model with an efficient drive train.

On that theme I had a former colleague, an excellent O gauge modeller Bob Merry. He would buy a top of the range kit and deliberately discard the chassis and scratch build his own. The results were breathtaking...my own pedestrian efforts ...well let's see

[Golden Fleece 30]

You could try buying another one.  It has the Aston's Auctioneers guide at £60-80. Aston's have always had very knowledgeable staff from my dealings with them.

 

 With all the good intentions this means you seem to overlook the point that the Heljan Garratt has been a very big problem for lots and lots of people.  Why should anyone want to spend anything on more rubbish.  There have been far too many issues that should never have happened with this loco.  I accept a "rogue" loco might get through the assembly line but not 99%, possibly 100%.  How many people have a dud (and MAYBE a good one) and not on here?  We will never know the answer as to exactly how many were bad or good but for me the phrase "once bitten twice shy" means I will never have another Heljan loco.  I did comment like this on the Tango 2-8-0 thread of which people said "its okay they have learnt and this is fine" only to start putting some faults on months later.

 

Garry

[cctransuk]

 With all the good intentions this means you seem to overlook the point that the Heljan Garratt has been a very big problem for lots and lots of people.  Why should anyone want to spend anything on more rubbish.  There have been far too many issues that should never have happened with this loco.  I accept a "rogue" loco might get through the assembly line but not 99%, possibly 100%.  How many people have a dud (and MAYBE a good one) and not on here?  We will never know the answer as to exactly how many were bad or good but for me the phrase "once bitten twice shy" means I will never have another Heljan loco.  I did comment like this on the Tango 2-8-0 thread of which people said "its okay they have learnt and this is fine" only to start putting some faults on months later.

 

Garry

 

I have many Heljan locos - steam and diesel - all of which are fine.

 

I will concede that a significant number of owners seem to have had problems with the Garratt, though I suspect that many of these have been due to mishandling the loco - in particular the delicate valvegear. If the valvegear is distorted in handling and a jam occurs, the two motors will try to continue running and be overloaded.

 

Alternatively, some motors may have been duds - which is why I took the opportunity to purchase a couple of cheap spares when they were linked here.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Widnes Model Centre]

 With all the good intentions this means you seem to overlook the point that the Heljan Garratt has been a very big problem for lots and lots of people.  Why should anyone want to spend anything on more rubbish.  There have been far too many issues that should never have happened with this loco.  I accept a "rogue" loco might get through the assembly line but not 99%, possibly 100%.  How many people have a dud (and MAYBE a good one) and not on here?  We will never know the answer as to exactly how many were bad or good but for me the phrase "once bitten twice shy" means I will never have another Heljan loco.  I did comment like this on the Tango 2-8-0 thread of which people said "its okay they have learnt and this is fine" only to start putting some faults on months later.

 

Garry

 

Yes, it was posted with all good intentions. I am aware of the problems with these loco's. The guide price as I remarked also seems to suggest that this has not been missed by the auctioneers. It is for 46256 to decide whether he wishes to spend more, his suggestion that he may take a hammer to his own suggests that he is well aware of the issue. I don't think I overlooked anything.

 

From posts on here and various reviews, why weren't they returned to the source? It was up to the manufacturer to solve this problem. I cannot recall (without going through every post) seeing any comment from the trade.

[Horsetan]

....I cannot recall (without going through every post) seeing any comment from the trade.

 

I don't think the trade (which basically means Hattons, because they commissioned the thing after all) were too happy about it.

 

I also see Olivia's Trains are now offering recycled Garratts.

[Golden Fleece 30]

From posts on here and various reviews, why weren't they returned to the source? It was up to the manufacturer to solve this problem. I cannot recall (without going through every post) seeing any comment from the trade.

 

My problem was I did not run mine until 18 months or so after buying it so it was well out of guarantee, but, when my motor melted I sent photos to Heljan who did send me a couple of replacements without any issue so I cannot fault them in that respect.  I have fitted one but not run the loco since so cannot comment anymore about it.  The photos are on here quite a few posts back but here again for you.

 

Garry

 

 

[bigherb]

 With all the good intentions this means you seem to overlook the point that the Heljan Garratt has been a very big problem for lots and lots of people.  Why should anyone want to spend anything on more rubbish.  There have been far too many issues that should never have happened with this loco.  I accept a "rogue" loco might get through the assembly line but not 99%, possibly 100%.  How many people have a dud (and MAYBE a good one) and not on here?  We will never know the answer as to exactly how many were bad or good but for me the phrase "once bitten twice shy" means I will never have another Heljan loco.  I did comment like this on the Tango 2-8-0 thread of which people said "its okay they have learnt and this is fine" only to start putting some faults on months later.

 

Garry

Well it is not 100% as mine is still running on its original motors and not from lack of use as it is used every session to push the track cleaners around because it can effortlessly. That's to spite me for buying a stash of replacement motors.

[Widnes Model Centre]

My problem was I did not run mine until 18 months or so after buying it so it was well out of guarantee, but, when my motor melted I sent photos to Heljan who did send me a couple of replacements without any issue so I cannot fault them in that respect.  I have fitted one but not run the loco since so cannot comment anymore about it.  The photos are on here quite a few posts back but here again for you.

 

Garry

 

I would still take that up as a warranty claim. I might have a shop but I still buy models for myself. Was it fit for purpose? We still resolve issues that are out of warranty with the consent and help of the manufacturer/importer, albeit this tends to be on the radio controlled models we sell.

 

Not sure what relevant act was in place when these were sold, Sale of Goods or Consumer Protection. But as consumer protection is relevant now, within that act you may have to prove the item was faulty when you received it. That seems fairly easy given this forum.

 

I am currently fighting a similar issue for a friend. Not within any hobby I would add. The retailer is blaming the manufacturer, the manufacturer says there was a known fault and the retailer was aware. The customer (my friend) has been fobbed off basically.

 

As a retailer the law is not on my side and we should use it but I would add with a sense of fairness and honesty. I say that as we have had faulty goods returned to us and on examination by ourselves and the supplier, customers have been trying it on shall we say?

 

I would add that Hattons may have commissioned these loco's but the fault clearly lies at the manufacturers door.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Widnes Model Centre

[Golden Fleece 30]

I would still take that up as a warranty claim. I might have a shop but I still buy models for myself. Was it fit for purpose? We still resolve issues that are out of warranty with the consent and help of the manufacturer/importer, albeit this tends to be on the radio controlled models we sell.

 

Sorry, I also forgot to say that I had removed the chip mounting plate and 3-railed it too so very much doubt it would have been covered under its standard warranty anyway.  Thanks for the advice though.

 

Garry

[46256]

j a quick update....rear magnet area of Heljan chassis removed and epoxied into the comet frames. These have been soldered using Poppys jig....excellent item...comet cylinders Heljan slidebars....Heljan tender tank resting on top.....

[46256]

a milestone both chassis travelling under the Heljan loco body...only one motor gearbox currently fitted but already a well running loco...second gearbox motor in due course

[Horsetan]

Milestone rather than millstone?

 

Having picked up a bulk pack of AGW Midland 5'2"s on eBay, I now seem to have 18 driving wheels to choose from, and have reached the stage of having to fork out for two Comet chassis....

[Francis deWeck]

Something of a surprise to report, following a re-wiring of the layout and re-arrangement of power districts, the Garratt now behaves well and carries out shunting as required. Amazing!

[46256]

At the risk of re starting fires...and in my case too far advanced in my new chassis replacements....I noted at Warley another major northern retailer ( not previously involved) offering r" reconditioned " Garratts for the £250 price range. Has anyone bought these ...or indeed supplied their own failed units to the retailers'...if bought from them how are they performing?

[adb968008]

After reading this thread 18mths ago, I bought two spare motors for my Garratt.

They are both still in my drawer upstairs and my Garratt is still running fine.

Should I be happy it’s good, upset I’ve wasted my £3odd on motors or worried ?

[45568]

At the risk of re starting fires...and in my case too far advanced in my new chassis replacements....I noted at Warley another major northern retailer ( not previously involved) offering r" reconditioned " Garratts for the £250 price range. Has anyone bought these ...or indeed supplied their own failed units to the retailers'...if bought from them how are they performing?

 Posted by 45568 on 03 January 2017 - 10:52 in Heljan

I received an Olivia's Trains Advent day offer for the their reconditioned Garratt before Xmas and was tempted.

 I ordered the Garratt with some trepidation as I have seen several of them 'in trouble' over here and we recently repaired one extensively using replacement motors supplied by Olivias. Secondly, of course, is the 'horror' thread on RMWeb with it's list of casualties, and  also the RMWeb thread that is less than complimentary about Olivias!

 However, the parcel arrived promptly and I placed the Garratt on my rolling road and ran it in,15min forward and back repeated 3x. Very quiet and no warming of the motors. I did a little tweak on a couple of pickups to ensure they were touching. Then to the layout, where it has been given a good workout over several days, (including 30+C temperatures), without missing a beat.

I am very pleased and believe this is the Garratt as it should have been originally, congratulations to Olivias on sorting out the problems.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Twelve months later still seems to be OK! I might bite the bullet and renumber and recrest it now!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[robmcg]

I'm afraid I cannot answer the questions about 'reconditioned' Garratts but I bought 7 different ones a few years ago and none proved faulty on my short test track use, I sold them last year and got good prices and zero comebacks.

 

I bough a s/h 47996 from Hattons a month ago and it has proven a perfect runner, again on my short test track, so probably meaningless... it was a bit cheaper than the reconditioned ones from another retailer, if that is indeed the Sheffield one. I have received Hornby Duchess models from there with a 'tested' certificate but one was very faulty, loose body, clicking motion, bent motion, oil on paint marks, quite odd, they are in general a very good retailer.

 

here is a pic of 47996 I did today.

 

 

picture edited, will remove if required.

 

I do love these engines!  <g>  The detail is fragile, front/rear steps and water tank caps, but these are to my mind minor concerns

 

 

 

[Dick Turpin]

After reading this thread 18mths ago, I bought two spare motors for my Garratt.

They are both still in my drawer upstairs and my Garratt is still running fine.

Should I be happy it’s good, upset I’ve wasted my £3odd on motors or worried ?

Ho ho. This is a subtle variant of Sodd's law I've often noticed: buying spares for something your sure is going to need them ensures that it doesn't actually fail! I consider it insurance. Just try selling those spare motors and then watch what happens. 

[peteskitchen]

 To save me reading through 94 pages, has anybody had an issue with the suspension (compensation?) on one of the "power bogies" The smoke box end one of mine is holding the inner driving wheel up in the air, if you pick the loco up the compensation allows it to move even further up. I've tried to dismantle the loco but its so delicate I gave up. I'd hate for it to become a static exhibit.

 Thanks 

Edited December 8, 2017 by peteskitchen

[Philou]

Happy New Year everyone.

 

I'm very late joining this particular party as I've only recently joined the RMWebbers Club and found this thread. The tales within are not terribly encouraging. I've read all 94 pages in the last three days or so with great interest as I bought one of these eons ago. I can't remember which particular one and my collection is stored away at the moment so I'm not able to access it easily. As made mention way up in this thread I can confirm there is at least a third one here in France .

 

When I bought it, I sound chipped it almost straight away (whether before or after I ran it, I don't recall). It has run for about 1/2 hour at my local club as I have no layout or track set up. The members (all French) were mightily impressed by the loco especially as it was ever so smooth straight from the box. I can say, hand on heart, that it didn't pull anything other than itself around the track. I did not perceive any issues regarding the pony truck lifting or differences in speed between fore and aft motor units - I wasn't looking out for problems either - and the standard of the track is not good as it has been assembled and disassembled for shows many times. Track radius is in the order of 2' minimum and all in Peco 100.

 

I do, however, have a question: Should I be buying some spare motors just in case? I think the answer will be 'yes'. If so, from where should I try to source them:

 

a: Direct from Heljan

b: From Olivia's

c: From Ebay/Ali baba at about £3 - £7 a piece (I saw a list of possible sources on page 86 or thereabouts - though some seem to be sold out), or;

d: Go Mashima (if still available)?

 

Your thoughts would be welcome.

 

Philip