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Is Overseas Modelling Interest Declining?


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Interesting that when we say 'overseas' the only countries the forum majority refer to are German, Swiss, Japanese and US prototype. Whilst I understand there is an element of 'whats available', there are however other countries out there with interesting railways and a modelling market behind them that supports modellers, and not always as expensive as you would think.

It has crossed my mind though if there is a bit of if aint "German, US or Japanese then I wont look at it' snobbery(wrong word?).

 

In terms of specialist society memberships I think the order is N. American (British chapter of NMRA), Swiss, German, French, Italian followed by various others and that's probably a fair representation of overall modelling interest.

 

I've never been quite sure whether the greater interest in US RRs is mainly down to the attractive pricing and quality made possible by a huge domestic market or is more a reflection of their not being seen as "foreign". In railway terms of course, apart from conducting their affairs in English, they are far more different from ours than are European railways.

 

My first modelling as an adult was of American RRs and that was definitely inspired by a summer spent in N. America when I was a student and spent a lot of time in small towns where the RR definitely made its presence felt. Things like Kadee couplings and fairly affordable car kits definitely helped (as did Victors)but I don't think they were key.

 

I became interested in modelling French railways when I started to discover the narrow gauge railways that had once infilitrated almost every corner of the countryside. After that I lost all interest in modelling N. American RRs despite later enjoyable visits to several preserved lines like the East Broad Top, Strasburg and the Cumbres and Toltec and despite the fact that I enjoy shunting/switching layouts and American short lines are perfect for that.

Maybe it's just that when exploring American RRs you can't ever get a decent meal with a pichet of wine ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

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The downturn in interest in 'continental' outline is also evident in their domestic market. Whilst the turnover for the manufacturers may still be acceptable, the retail market has completely changed in the past thirty-five years.

 

In my own hometown, we have lost all our retail outlets in a city of over 70,000, each has closed and the only train store is a dealer in secondhand collectibles. The situation is not much better within the region, the next large town of 20,000 has lost its rather good specialist train store three years ago and the nearest specialist dealer is 55kms to the south in Nurnberg. The internet and large mail order outlets have all been blamed by the trade but the reality is cost and disposable income has not kept pace with the rise in prices, the post baby-boom generation simply cannot afford the rises.

 

Tim

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The downturn in interest in 'continental' outline is also evident in their domestic market. Whilst the turnover for the manufacturers may still be acceptable, the retail market has completely changed in the past thirty-five years.

 

This is no different to the UK domestic market though where online purchasing and the rise of computer games has wiped out many model shops in the UK so it's not something that makes overseas modelling different.

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Interesting that when we say 'overseas' the only countries the forum majority refer to are German, Swiss, Japanese and US prototype. Whilst I understand there is an element of 'whats available', there are however other countries out there with interesting railways and a modelling market behind them that supports modellers, and not always as expensive as you would think.

It has crossed my mind though if there is a bit of if aint "German, US or Japanese then I wont look at it' snobbery(wrong word?).

 

I've never been quite sure whether the greater interest in US RRs is mainly down to the attractive pricing and quality made possible by a huge domestic market or is more a reflection of their not being seen as "foreign". In railway terms of course, apart from conducting their affairs in English, they are far more different from ours than are European railways.

 

My first modelling as an adult was of American RRs and that was definitely inspired by a summer spent in N. America when I was a student and spent a lot of time in small towns where the RR definitely made its presence felt. Things like Kadee couplings and fairly affordable car kits definitely helped (as did Victors)but I don't think they were key.

 

I became interested in modelling French railways when I started to discover the narrow gauge railways that had once infiltrated almost every corner of the countryside. After that I lost all interest in modelling N. American RRs despite later enjoyable visits to several preserved lines like the East Broad Top, Strasburg and the Cumbres and Toltec and despite the fact that I enjoy shunting/switching layouts and American short lines are perfect for that.

 

Maybe it's just that when exploring American RRs you can't do it as a day trip and it's far harder to get a decent meal with a pichet of wine ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

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This is no different to the UK domestic market though where online purchasing and the rise of computer games has wiped out many model shops in the UK so it's not something that makes overseas modelling different.

 

Hi,

 

I do not think that I was claiming that the current situation differed in any way from the UK market, I was merely providing an illustration of the domestic market. :mellow:

 

Thank you

 

Tim

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  • 5 years later...

I've just found this thread by accident.

 

I model China and the great incentive for me is that (to a very great extent) nobody else does. I want to have the first big Chinese HO layout on the exhibition circuit before I get too old to hump it around the country.

 

In the past I've had exhibition layouts in American O (1980's) , American On30 (1980's) , American ON3 (1990's) and always the incentive was to be the first. I wouldn't build a layout in any of those gauges now because (certainly in the case of On30) every show I go to seems to have one - probably a lot better than I could build.

 

Based on the reaction of most enthusiasts to Chinese modelling - total indifference - my layout will (in part) be aimed at the casual visitor. I think the casual visitor (ie non-enthusiast) is more open to overseas modelling than the average British enthusiast who just has a quick look and says 'not my cup of tea' and moves on. In short, my layout will have to entertain the casual visitor because the real British enthusiast will walk by - and no, I'm not having a working fairground!

 

Maybe I'm odd but most layouts I see at exhibitions that stick in my memory are overseas layouts - why? Because they're different.

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This thread has been buried for a while, hasn't it?

In answer to the original question. No, or at least I hope not.

I seem to have very much "gone off" what is considered the normal fayre for UK modellers. "Oh look... another pannier tank..."

Sarcasm not intended, each to their own and all that, but overseas modelling is appealing to me because it constantly teaches me something new about how the rest of the world works.

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Based on the reaction of most enthusiasts to Chinese modelling - total indifference - my layout will (in part) be aimed at the casual visitor. I think the casual visitor (ie non-enthusiast) is more open to overseas modelling than the average British enthusiast who just has a quick look and says 'not my cup of tea' and moves on. In short, my layout will have to entertain the casual visitor because the real British enthusiast will walk by - and no, I'm not having a working fairground!

 

There are a few who do just walk on but that's fine there's usually enough who enjoy the continental models. I rarely found myself without someone watching on four continental layouts even if an odd one does feel it necessary to go "huh foreign" and stomp off.

I actually think there are more shows specially looking at the continental models now. I've done Eurotrack a couple of times and got Euro Rly Association and GRSglobalrail in the diary for my HSB layout.

I'm noticing there are more continental mags appearing in Smiths too. The two big local ones stock MR, Trains, Classic Trains and their specials, locomotives International, Today's Railways International and British copies, CM and for the last few months the US Gardenrail too.

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I've just found this thread by accident.

 

I model China and the great incentive for me is that (to a very great extent) nobody else does. I want to have the first big Chinese HO layout on the exhibition circuit before I get too old to hump it around the country.

 

In the past I've had exhibition layouts in American O (1980's) , American On30 (1980's) , American ON3 (1990's) and always the incentive was to be the first. I wouldn't build a layout in any of those gauges now because (certainly in the case of On30).

 

I'm still waiting for you to live up to your forum name and actually build something based on Yakima.... ;-)

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When I could be bothered with exhibitions, I found that the location of the subject matter was one of the least important things in deciding whether I liked a layout.

I've stood and watched some BR(S) in TT, a GER BLT, a transition era US layout, something based somewhere in the Alps... I find that I don't get interested by multi track roundy layouts, and a loco shed I'll just walk past without stopping.

I would probably stand and watch a Chinese layout for longer than a typical multi track roundy because it's different to the usual, but if it's the same 6 trains in a sequence it won't hold my attention for long.

 

Of course, that's all irrelevant since I realised that I'm not really into exhibitions anyway!

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I think there has been a bit of a swing towards overseas narrow gauge over the last few years with the Bachmann 0n30 stuff appearing to be fairly popular. Also, I wonder if anybody is building a layout making use of the H0n31/2 Queensland Railway RTR models which are now available?

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There is still quite a following for overseas railway models in the UK but it is a minority/niche interest. I think the improvement in OO models affected the popularity of HO here as at one time I think some people were attracted to it because the difference between standards of OO and HO RTR models was almost embarrassing. I knew a few HO modellers that sort of moved back to UK outline when the models improved but they kept a lot of their HO stuff.

I like overseas models and have quite a bit of Italian, Swiss and German outline but my main HO love is US outline brass. At one time HO was much more expensive than OO but nowadays it isn't quite so simple. Some HO is still a lot more expensive, but some HO is very competitive with OO (although the OO are now competitive with HO too). Some HO manufacturers offer excellent quality and attractive prices, such as Piko Expert and some of the older Roco tooling which is still excellent. I find Italian outline is superb and prices can be very competitive with OO. I also love Japanese models.

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Nearly six years on, I think the answer to the OP's question is currently a definite "Yes", although those involved are probably more active in specialist meets and supporting traders, so are less apparent at normal shows.

 

Something else I've seen is certain general club shows only inviting maybe one or two non-British layouts, if at all. That might appease those who only like UK layouts, but to me it says someone hasn't thought about what they've invited and other organisational areas will be a lottery, but its all OK "because we have our own shows" and they obviously don't need my entrance fee.

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Only just come across this thread and after starting a new overseas (US) model; my first non-UK modelling foray.

 

I think the split in PECO's magazine content eons ago into RM (UK) and Continental M'lr may have been a partial contributor as you have to go out of your way today to see overseas content where it used to be a mix. Even this forum splits out the non-UK content by topic unless you choose to view mainly by latest posts. Obviously UK will be the majority interest but by shifting the overseas coverage into an even smaller niche it is self serving as out of sight becomes out of mind.

 

I've found the biggest challenge as a newbie to US modelling is finding out where the few UK suppliers are as I won't do Ebay unless forced into it (due to past bad experiences of mail-order via Ebay).

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TEAMYAKIMA my layout is "BR/Irish with visitors" Like you I like China Rail and I have a Bachmann QJ and a rake of 8 green China Rail carriages. The other "visitors" are both DB, Rivarossi Co-Co with five Lima carriages and one Fleischmann Bo-Bo with a matching rake of 9 TEE carriages. On my shopping list is a rake of SNCF Corail carriages and a suitable locomotive. I have no plans for an overseas layout but do like to run some sample trains.

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I must be the oddball here.

I have an 00 gauge layout that most of the time runs British 00 gauge stock.

But (bought as a present for me by my wife 50 odd years ago in Malta) an HO  DB P8 loco, a Fleischman matchboard restaurant car, CIWL cars and 3 coaches represent the Simplon Orient 'Express' we rode through Bulgaria  to Istanbul for our honeymoon in1961.

 

From time to time in recent years the layout (which is kept deliberately fairly abstract) runs epoch III HO stock from Continental Europe that we have enjoyed from both work and holidays in Italy and France.

But all the stock is second hand: Rivarossi for FS, Joeuf for French. I love the railcars (Picasso s); the FS 2-6-0s (I have yet to source a s/h Crosti) and the glorious French steam especially the rakish de Caso U1 232.

It is still possible to find reasonably priced second hand models of the classic types (e.g. Conti Kits where I bought a Chapelon Nord 231 at Railex NE for £60 a fortnight ago).

 

Working in Nancy over several years, I'd love to find older French steam such as Cramptons - the French built their first lines through cities like Nancy as canals - with fashionable quais flanking the lines.

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I have a certain reluctance to post on here because of an 'anti foreign' bias, people seem to be very negative towards things they don't know or understand.

(I only really come on here to help publicise my clubs shows) Often I just have a quick look around and see that nothing has changed, then move on but maybe I can help explain why.

I know that I am not alone in this, friends of mine related that a punter came up to their US layout, observed for a couple of minutes, stated loudly "I don't like American!" and walked off. I've heard similar myself.

Parochialism?

Ignorance?

Simply closed minds?

I don't know.

It does make me laugh when folk decry that a "Continental" loco might cost over £300 (for example) but then pay that much every month for a "Foreign" car! 

Different priorities of course but I'm happy with my old banger that is more reliable than a lot of new cars, it's a Honda and just keeps going.

Quality?

I'm sorry but the typical Hornby or Bachmann product just doesn't hold a candle to Roco or Trix. Of course, you can buy quality British outline models from Rapido or SLW for example but at what price? Notable exception: Hornby's latest coaches but price equal to Roco or Acme!

The more I consider this, the more I think that 'Brexit' mentality is steeped into the population, "British is best" and all that but for those brave souls who are open minded enough to look beyond our shores and see what other countries have done and still do with their railways they might see that for all that 'we' invented the railway, we have lost the plot nowadays. Similarly with model railways.

For myself, I am happy to go where railways and railway modelling is welcome!

John.

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I haven't found bias against here, maybe not a lot of interest relative to the membership, but a sizeable number watch and comment on my Swiss and German threads. To be honest more than do on the narrow gauge British one ;)

I also find many are interested in several countries so more general railway enthusiasts than focused on one thing?

Considering the number on here I meet at shows and chat to and a sizeable group of us now doing the Freemo meets in three locations I'd say there's a healthy pool of continental experience and all happy to share.

I had ideas about doing a roundy Chinese layout for years and collected a fair bit of stock but it was a way down the list of projects and now I have less space I've concentrated on the smaller ideas so I'm thoroughly enjoying the Chinese thread :)

Must decide what to do about the stock I have left!

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..................... friends of mine related that a punter came up to their US layout, observed for a couple of minutes, stated loudly "I don't like American!" and walked off. I've heard similar myself.

 

 

When I took my American O gauge layout to the big Bristol show on the 1980's one of the organisers was heard by me to say 'I suppose there's some people who like this sort of thing' as he walked by my layout.

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My experience is that there is a minority of overseas railway enthusiasts in the UK, a large majority who aren't really interested in overseas railways but who enjoy good modelling and have a generic interest in anything rail related and then a small minority who actively dislike overseas modelling and make the snide remarks.

For all that I found most people at exhibitions and the club I was a member of were happy enough to watch the odd overseas model even if it wasn't there thing and enjoy it or at least accept that we're all different, the small minority of small minded types did leave a sour taste. Usually they were the same people who made snide comments about paraffin sheds or kettles.

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I would certainly agree that foreign layouts are a minority interest but I'm not sure the level of interest has changed much over the years. There is nothing wrong with paying visitors walking past a layout that they have no interest in. Having said that I think if your mind is closed to foreign railways you are missing out on a lot of fascinating information. I knew nothing about US railroads until I sterted to build a railway that used US stock. This opened up a whole new world of railways for me to discover and enjoy. I now spend longer viewing US layouts than I used to because I understand what I am looking at. In order to really appreciate a model of a foreign railway you probably need some knowledge of that country's railways.

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There is nothing wrong with paying visitors walking past a layout that they have no interest in.

  

 

and then a small minority who actively dislike overseas modelling and make the snide remarks.

 

The problem is such feedback ends up with the organisers, and in the absence of positive comments and a general notion that exhibition managers often invite more of what they're interested in (which probably won't be one of these foreign minority layouts), such layouts are overlooked and not actively scouted for.

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The cost difference is only part of it. A lot of the interest in Swiss railways came from a particular group of people. Ex army officers, public school educated, middle class, took skiing holidays in Switzerland types. Now a dying breed - literally. Add to that the military who served in Germay between 1945 and the 1990s, again all getting older. Over a short period, a largeumber and probably a large percentage of interesed parties such as many from these groups will be taking less interest in the continental scene.

 

There might be some truth in this, but another contributing factor could be that a lot of British enthusiasts visited Germany to photograph steam after British steam ended in July 1968. I know from personal experience in the club I belong to that a couple of our members used to visit Germany regularly in thje late sixties/early 70's and then their modelling tastes changes as a result..... they both built exhibition layouts and now have passed.

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I haven't noticed any paticularly anti-overseas bias on here. I think most modellers want to model what they are familiar with which for most people in the UK is British outline while most American modellers will only really be interested in US outline. I  expect this is also true of German and Japanese modellers.

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