Bill Jamieson Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Bruce, I seem to recall that Lady Victoria was a central processing site for a number of pits, hence your description of a number of different 'brands' could be quite correct. That's according to the grey matter at least, so the usual disclaimer applies! But not for Northumberland pits. Shilbottle (not far south of Alnwick) was what the coal merchant in Duns delivered (completely irrelevant, I know!). Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Bruce, I seem to recall that Lady Victoria was a central processing site for a number of pits, hence your description of a number of different 'brands' could be quite correct. That's according to the grey matter at least, so the usual disclaimer applies! In NCB days wasn't Lady Vic considered to be part of the 'Newbattle Unit' group of collieries? The chapter covering Lady Vic from a book about Scottish Colleries can be down loaded from the Scottish Mining Museum Website. http://www.scottishm...hcollieries.pdf Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 quote from a while back .... "Reference to Hawick being a receiving destination for Class 8 trip-worked coal from Lady Victoria" I'm not sure that we're really any closer to a definitive answer for 'Chard. It may have been the case that coal from Lady Vic sidings went to Millerhill and then to Hawick on a class 8 trip, but on the day in March 1969 that I travelled on the freight from Millerhill to Hawick, the first shunting (of coal as it happened!) was done at Galashiels. (http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=22929) The Hawick South signal box register that Bill and I had access to didn't specifically mention any Lady Victoria to Hawick trip carrying coal only. And if memory serves me right, it always seemed to be NE English collieries mentioned in our household receipts, so Duns and Hawick were similar in one respect ~ at least as far as domestic coal was concerned. But what source was the coal that factories used for their boilers? It may very well have been the case that Hawick received Lady Victoria coal, but perhaps the wagons were taken to a central point before being combined with other coal wagons from different sources. Although this perhaps muddies the water, rather than give an answer to 'Chard's question, the coal on the last train to Kelso was from NE England. Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed64a Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Bruce, I seem to recall that Lady Victoria was a central processing site for a number of pits, hence your description of a number of different 'brands' could be quite correct. That's according to the grey matter at least, so the usual disclaimer applies! The Lady Vic processed coal from Lingerwood and Easthouses collieries. There was a bridge over the A7 just by the junction into Newtongrange. I found this photo on SCRAN when they were change from rope haulage to diesel haulage between the pits. http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/image.php?usi=000-000-015-023-R&cusi=000-000-015-023-C&searchdb=scran I will hint at this line on my model, I hadn't given much thought to the destination of the pits coal output. I will try and find out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This is nothing more than an opinion but I would think that Bruce is correct when he says that coal was tripped from LV to Millerhill for distribution in all directions - this was probably the way it was done from when Millerhill opened. However, going back further in time, is in not the case that some Midlothian coal was tripped from the pits to Falahill where it was picked up by through freights for onward movement south. Bruce, I'm sure the workings are obvious in one of the WTTs you have - probably the 1947 LNER one, although it would be interesting to see what appears in your NBR facsimile (1896?). Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I know it's going back a bit on this thread, but it does occur to me from my time in Edinburgh (from late '68 to mid '72) that while, for most of that period, the Claytons were the normal power on the Edinburgh area trips / targets (Exx numbers), one did occasionally see something different, For example I can identify from my photographs that class 24 No. D5071 was at Granton with just a brakevan in tow on 16/3/70, while a month or so earlier class 37 No. D6903 worked the afternoon Millerhill to Leith South trip (target E13) comprising mostly coal for Portobello PS. I saw the latter working on a number of occasions and a Clayton was usual. Of course none of this relates directly to Lady Victoria, which I only visited a couple of times, but it does suggest to me that if a Clayton failed (hardly an unusual occurrence), Millerhill would probably substitute whatever was to hand, route availability permitting. Bill Over on the Kirkcaldy thread, there are a set of shots - undated possibly - but I'm guessing from the liveries involved that it matches late '68 - mid '72, that include D5071 (GSYP), D8606 (BFYE) and anonymous but looks like D6903 (GSYP from memory) on the Dysart coal job (the Dubby shunt). So it seems that 64B and Millerhill put out the cross section of traction you list on the Fife targets too. I also agree that the output of LV was probably tripped to MH yard before making onward journeys. In either direction. The weighbridge shot from Flickr is the most incredible find I've seen today. That takes the ultimate industrial crown for this devotee. PS: Bruce, when did the cute wee fella move closer in your avatar! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 According to "The District Controller's View", in pre-Millerhill Yard days pits along the WR "were served by untimetabled trip workings based on Hardengreen and organised by the Controller" (part of caption to upper photograph on page 51). The 1953 WTT in the same volume shows a pick-up freight leaving Hardengreen at 09.00 for Galashiels (arrive 12.10) and no doubt coal formed a major part of its load. Booked power was a J35. 'Chard - the earliest shot I have of D6903 dates from February 1970 and by then it was GFYE. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 PS: Bruce, when did the cute wee fella move closer in your avatar! Guthrie was enjoying his first railway journey on the line to Llangollen. One of his predecessors appears in Middleton Press book Carlise to Hawick at Hawick station. There's quite a Border Terrier and Waverley Route connection ~ but details are for a forthcoming book! Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I only ever made one visit to Lady Vic to take photographs - here are a couple of shots taken on 25th May 1971 of NCB Lothians Area No. 20, an Andrew Barclay 0-6-0T built in 1924 and obviously put out to grass. The lettering on the red label below the works plate seems to read "......PUG DRIVER" Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 And here are two of Lady Victoria Pit box - the slides are rather overexposed so some of the bright areas are lacking in detail. The red notice marks the end of yard working from Millerhill and "Trains must not proceed beyond this point without the permission of the signalman at Millerhill". Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed64a Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 And here are two of Lady Victoria Pit box - the slides are rather overexposed so some of the bright areas are lacking in detail. The red notice marks the end of yard working from Millerhill and "Trains must not proceed beyond this point without the permission of the signalman at Millerhill". Bill Great pictures Bill thanks, this picture shows what is left of the back wall of the box. I need to try and get a better one before it goes. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The red BRB notice clearly fouls the rusty up line. Poignant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Great pictures Bill thanks, this picture shows what is left of the back wall of the box. I need to try and get a better one before it goes. Chris Network Rail could turn this into a little earner selling souvenir bricks, with a numbered certificate of course! Erratum - yard working would have applied south of the red board, not from Millerhill as I stated earlier. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastleton P.Way Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Network Rail could turn this into a little earner selling souvenir bricks, with a numbered certificate of course! Bill Good idea! I'll start next week. Does £25 a pop sound reasonable? All proceeds to the LNE Track Renewals Christmas Shindig..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I only ever made one visit to Lady Vic to take photographs - here are a couple of shots taken on 25th May 1971 of NCB Lothians Area No. 20, an Andrew Barclay 0-6-0T built in 1924 and obviously put out to grass. The lettering on the red label below the works plate seems to read "......PUG DRIVER" Bill The Andrew Barclay 0-6-0ST No.20 was actually at the Newbattle Coal Stocking Site which was on the opposite side of the main line to Lady Victoria Colliery and according to Industrial Railway Society records it never actually worked at the colliery. This site was originally a NCB Opencast Executive disposal point until it closed c1960, then being taken over by the NCB as a coal stocking site. No.20 arrived here in 1969, but was possibly never used here either as in 1970 they were using an Andrew Barclay 0-4-0ST and rail traffic to the site ceased c1971. In 1972 both locos were out of use, the 0-4-0ST in the shed and No.20 probably in the same position since arrival. No.20 is now on the Strathspey Railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Plenty of Lady Vic VT here at 22 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=l4jyiIYlrWE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Plenty of Lady Vic VT here at 22 mins https://www.youtube....1&v=l4jyiIYlrWE Interesting bit of film, but not all taken at Lady Victoria In order, I reckon they are:– No.47 0-4-0ST AB 2157 at Kinneil Colliery, Bo’ness No.8 0-6-0ST AB 1175 at Lady Victoria No.17 0-4-0ST AB 2219 at Newbattle Coal Stocking Site – seen near the BR connection, where the Waverley Line passes under the A7 road No.6 0-4-2ST AB 1193 at Lady Victoria All 4 locos have since been preserved, although No.6 is without its trailing wheels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks to PGH for clarifying exactly where No.20 was standing - my own notes for the day (actually only a very brief listing of photographs taken) is less than helpful in this respect as they simply give the location as 'Newtongrange'. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Newbattle Coal Stocking Site – seen near the BR connection, where the Waverley Line passes under the A7 road Was this the connection to the "MOF siding" that I've seen in print somewhere? It would seem to fit the bill. Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Just parking these here, having image-searched 'Newbattle coal stocking site' http://mickpope.zenf...2126BE#ha2126be http://mickpope.zenf...126BE#h1d0bf314 Mick Pope's shots - more MNA expertise surfacing! Old Maps is fantastic around this part of the world: Co-ords 334503 664500 (Newtongrange) take you to a locus that gives you maximum reach to the A7/ B704 junction at the bottom R/H quadrant, and therefore clear visibility of both the pit site and landsales side. Edinburghshire 1957-1958 1:10,560 shows a very extensive network, by 1968 the landsales/ Coal-Stocking side is much simplified, and by the time of the next available map 1978, only vestigial earthworks are evident. EDIT: MOF, shortened form of 'M.O.F.P' - Ministry of Fuel and Power http://images.library.wisc.edu/FRUS/EFacs/1947v03/reference/frus.frus1947v03.i0005.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed64a Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 From the same site, a view inside the engine shed. http://mickpope.zenfolio.com/p916307251/hA2126BE#h10f158e6 With all the new images posted I really have to get on with construction. PGH's shots of the northern end of the site are extremely helpful. Please keep adding more, they are a massive inspiration and help. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I can't wait for the Stoating Bank twins to see the new footage on here after the Uckfield show... It will inspire them on to industrial depths anew! Chris - your work is massively admired - we'll keep unearthing the research as you keep up the legwork! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just parking these here, having image-searched 'Newbattle coal stocking site' http://mickpope.zenf...2126BE#ha2126be http://mickpope.zenf...126BE#h1d0bf314 Mick Pope's shots - more MNA expertise surfacing! Old Maps is fantastic around this part of the world: Co-ords 334503 664500 (Newtongrange) take you to a locus that gives you maximum reach to the A7/ B704 junction at the bottom R/H quadrant, and therefore clear visibility of both the pit site and landsales side. Edinburghshire 1957-1958 1:10,560 shows a very extensive network, by 1968 the landsales/ Coal-Stocking side is much simplified, and by the time of the next available map 1978, only vestigial earthworks are evident. EDIT: MOF, shortened form of 'M.O.F.P' - Ministry of Fuel and Power The second photo shows a wisp of steam from No.20, so it evidently was used at the Coal Stocking Site before being "put out to grass" According to the Industrial Railway Society's Scottish Handbook (1976), the site was originally opened by the Ministry of Fuel & Power and had two Austerity saddle tanks. It passed to the NCB Opencast Executive on 1st April 1952 and 5 Austerities are recorded as working here, although normally only two at any one time. Closure as an opencast disposal point is quoted as c1960 and (!) c1961, but the last two austerities left circa July 1961. The first NCB locos to arrive when used as a coal stocking site were circa April 1963. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCromptonParkinson Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 That Clayton shot has made me go so wrong I'm going to have lay down for an extended period. THAT is why I do what I do for that sort of money shot. I have just brought "Industrial steam Album Number 2" and on page 113 there is a close up of the Lady Vic weigh house with 0-6-0ST 1458/1916 and 0-4-2ST 536/1914 in evidence. Not much else is in evidence apart from 1914 with a hefty rake of loaded 16Ts and a giant smoke plume emitting from the weighbridge's chimney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed64a Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Interesting to see from Google street view that the former Lady Victoria loco shed still remains. This was a fairly modern brick building with a corrugated (asbestos ?) roof and is shown in the background of one of my photos as below. It was – and still is as it does appear to be the same building – situated alongside the Waverley Line next to the B704 overbridge. Originally it had an almost full length ventilator on the roof ridge and sliding front doors and I do recall that it seemed rather larger than required, capable of holding at least six locos. The current building certainly has the same six rectangular side windows but a replacement steel roof. It's still the same building, with a new roof, this picture on one of my visits is taken from the former track bed. Access is now through the Leith's yard (I think) in the appropriately named Lady Victoria Business Park. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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