Judith Edge kits

[Michael Edge]

Latest developments include this contender for the ugliest loco ever contest.

This was built by Harland & Wolff for the LMS, originally numbered 7057 it was transferred to NCC in Northern Ireland. The box along the top of the casing was added in Ireland where it worked until the 1970s, latterly with UTA. Re-gauging was done without altering the frames, presumably longer axles and big washers were fitted.

The other side, the top box will be a separate moulding so either the LMS or Irish version can be built, waiting for step treads and balance weights as these were missed off the test etch.

Not much better looking from the back either.

Also on the bench is this North Eastern EF1 for a customer, to be painted as BR 26509. We've had this kit in the range for a long time now with fairly low sales numbers but there's been a bit of a rush on for all the NER electrics recently. I've never seen a layout based on the NER Shildon electrification, possibly because it only worked for 20 years but I'm sure it would make an interesting model. All the locos apart from the rebuilt No11 (26510) were kept in store for the MSW electrification scheme and renumbered successively into the later LNER series and BR but were all scrapped in 1951 without seeing any further use.

The huge pantographs are a bit fiddly to build but work very well in the model with their wide heads.

These kits were designed to use Black Beetle bogies but fortunately the inner bogie frames are quite easy to motorise, in this case two Mitsumi motors and some plastic 20:1 gears.

[Blandford1969]

Dare I ask how the Fowler 2-6-2 is coming on?

[Nelson Jackson]

Brilliant news with regards to the Harland & Wolff shunter, I'm guessing provisions have been made to also allow 21mm models?

[Steamport Southport]

Looking at the Harland and Wolff diesels it seems to me that they still wanted to design them like steam locomotives with the side tanks, cab and bunker.

 

Interesting prototypes though. I didn't even know they existed until recently.

 

 

http://www.theyard.info/engineering/trains/trains.asp

 

 

 

Jason

[Michael Edge]

Dare I ask how the Fowler 2-6-2 is coming on?

 

I'm aiming to get it in our next etch order, possibly for Nottingham exhibition this year.

[Michael Edge]

Brilliant news with regards to the Harland & Wolff shunter, I'm guessing provisions have been made to also allow 21mm models?

 

At the moment it has the usual EM/00 frame spacers but as I said above the frames and wheels were not altered for 5'3" gauge so they must have used the equivalent of thick washers outside the bearings. The LMS Jinties which went to Ireland were re-gauged by turning the wheel centres inside out and fitting new tyres.

[Michael Edge]

Looking at the Harland and Wolff diesels it seems to me that they still wanted to design them like steam locomotives with the side tanks, cab and bunker.

 

Interesting prototypes though. I didn't even know they existed until recently.

 

 

http://www.theyard.info/engineering/trains/trains.asp

 

 

 

Jason

H&W only built s handful of locomotives, the others were just as ugly. Designing diesels like steam locos was quite common then, Hudswell Clarke were still doing it in the 1950s, look at the BR D2500 series, the exhaust on these was actually a steam loco chimney casting. Although I have no information about the interior of 7057's cab there doesn't seem to be anything significant inside what looks like a bunker on the back - but the same applies to the early North British diesels (e.g. BR D2700), there's nothing much in there.

[Barry O]

The EF1 is beautiful, the H&W shunter just needs to be seen to be believed. They do say though that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Baz

[Michael Edge]

I've taken the box off the top of the HW 0-6-0 (it will be separate moulding) and added the bits underneath it, so this is what it originally looked like as delivered to the LMS. The exhaust cowl is a big lump with quite a small hole in it, I suspect it was an iron casting used to help balance the loco - like the BR 03.

All the work is now done for this, just a matter of drawing up the production etch and writing some instructions.

Moving on to a test etch I started at York last year

This is a Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0DH, one of the last designs produced before the Hunslet buy out. Two batches were supplied to Mersey Docks (their last locos), one of which survives on the East Somerset. I started on this at the York demo but abandoned it after discovering a fundamental etch error in the very complicated steps. A few new etch parts got round this, everything else is going well.

This isn't a high priority but it's the first Hudswell we've done and will leave only one type (the earlier Hudswells) of MDHB locos to build.

 

 

[PenrithBeacon]

Is the Hudswell similar to those the MSC had?

[Michael Edge]

No, they were a slightly earlier type, similar locos to these (but not exactly the same) were supplied to other users and some still work at Ford's Dagenham plant 

[Ruston]

Can we see the underside of the Hudswell, please? I'm interested to know the final drive arrangement with that motor/gearbox.

[Michael Edge]

no problem Dave

The final drive gears are 1:1 plastic bevel gears from China, I think they were £1.98 for 20, post free. They seem to be completely silent unlike the Portescap bevels - but these are on the low speed end of the drive. They come with a 2mm bore and because of their shape are a little difficult to hold for machining/boring. I bored them to a push fit on the 3mm output shaft and the 1/8th axle.

View from the top.

I don't know how long these motors are going to be available but they are amazingly powerful, I loaded this frame up to about 400g and it was still running smoothly and quietly while still easily spinning the wheels. These bevel gears only just fit in 00 gauge frames, leaving no room for a motor mounting frame so the gearbox is simply soldered to the frame plates. I left the bevel gear a few mm away from the gearbox, this enables the wheels to be turned by hand (essential for accurate quartering of Gibson wheels) by sliding the gear back out of mesh, the spur drive box can't be driven backwards.

The Hunslet 14" 0-6-0ST seen on Herculaneum Dock recently has one of these motors, driving through 1:1 skew gears but I don't remember where these came from.

[Barry O]

so without the added "lump" the Harland and Woolf designed shunter is still pretty hideous....

 

Baz

[Michael Edge]

I still can't figure out what was underneath that "hump", obviously something that needed a bit more ventilation but what?

[Enterprisingwestern]

I still can't figure out what was underneath that "hump", obviously something that needed a bit more ventilation but what?

 

Extra cooling pipes and/or radiator/heat exchangers. Cab heating maybe?

 

Mike.

[polybear]

no problem Dave

WP_20180113_13_13_20_Pro.jpg

The final drive gears are 1:1 plastic bevel gears from China, I think they were £1.98 for 20, post free. They seem to be completely silent unlike the Portescap bevels - but these are on the low speed end of the drive. They come with a 2mm bore and because of their shape are a little difficult to hold for machining/boring. I bored them to a push fit on the 3mm output shaft and the 1/8th axle.

WP_20180113_13_13_38_Pro.jpg

View from the top.

I don't know how long these motors are going to be available but they are amazingly powerful, I loaded this frame up to about 400g and it was still running smoothly and quietly while still easily spinning the wheels. These bevel gears only just fit in 00 gauge frames, leaving no room for a motor mounting frame so the gearbox is simply soldered to the frame plates. I left the bevel gear a few mm away from the gearbox, this enables the wheels to be turned by hand (essential for accurate quartering of Gibson wheels) by sliding the gear back out of mesh, the spur drive box can't be driven backwards.

The Hunslet 14" 0-6-0ST seen on Herculaneum Dock recently has one of these motors, driving through 1:1 skew gears but I don't remember where these came from.

 

I've not seen these motors before - can you tell me the source please?

Thanks

Brian

[bazjones1711]

Re. Small motors

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-6V-DC-Small-Micro-Geared-Box-Electric-Motor-High-Quality-M-C/302540103242?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Dc5aaf472a16b42129351d78c96554ee5%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D112754923985&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

There are plenty more on eBay, i bought mine in UK , cost £6.00 each

Edited January 14, 2018 by bazjones1711

[PenrithBeacon]

They are advertised as 3-6V not 12V. Are they suitable, seem a bit small to me

[Ruston]

They are advertised as 3-6V not 12V. Are they suitable, seem a bit small to me

They're 10x15mm with a 1mm shaft. I just wish I would find a source with just the motor and a shaft long enough to take a worm, so they could replace the Mashima 10x15 and couple to High Level gearboxes by sleeving the shaft to 1.5mm.

 

They are 3-6v but who drives the small industrial locos that you'd fit these to on more than 6v of the 0-12v DC anyway? Perhaps put a resistor in to limit the voltage throughout the range?

[Michael Edge]

They are advertised as 3-6V not 12V. Are they suitable, seem a bit small to me

 

They are small but very powerful, don't take too much notice of the quoted voltage. My Hunslet 14" 0-6-0ST has been running with one for nearly a year now, including the last Liverpool exhibition, it doesn't get noticeably hot and certainly hasn't failed. I've been buying all sorts of motors recently, usually just connect them to the DC supply and see what happens, all but one have been fine. This one barely registers on the ammeter. 

Average price on Ebay is now about £2.30 but there are lots of adverts for them, I got them for 99p but they might be being sold on now.

[JeffP]

I still can't figure out what was underneath that "hump", obviously something that needed a bit more ventilation but what?

The wolf?

[PenrithBeacon]

They are small but very powerful, don't take too much notice of the quoted voltage. My Hunslet 14" 0-6-0ST has been running with one for nearly a year now, including the last Liverpool exhibition, it doesn't get noticeably hot and certainly hasn't failed. I've been buying all sorts of motors recently, usually just connect them to the DC supply and see what happens, all but one have been fine. This one barely registers on the ammeter.

Average price on Ebay is now about £2.30 but there are lots of adverts for them, I got them for 99p but they might be being sold on now.

Ok! But another poster talked about the motors having a 1mm shaft which is a bit small for 4mm worms. Do you sleeve the motor shaft and how do you maintain concentricity?

 

Regard

[cctransuk]

Ok! But another poster talked about the motors having a 1mm shaft which is a bit small for 4mm worms. Do you sleeve the motor shaft and how do you maintain concentricity?

 

Regard

 

I find that brass tube from a reliable supplier - eg. Eileen's Emporium - is fine for sleeving worms.

 

In this instance, 1.0mm. ID, 1.5mm. OD.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[PenrithBeacon]

I find that brass tube from a reliable supplier - eg. Eileen's Emporium - is fine for sleeving worms.

 

In this instance, 1.0mm. ID, 1.5mm. OD.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks, tried that in a slightly different application, ie sleeving an axle in an RTR conversion. Didn't work, not at all. Which is why I'm concerned here.

 

Regards