Jump to content




Photo
- - - - -

Version numbers of Lenz Decoders.?

list of version numbers.?




  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#1 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 04 October 2011 - 19:05

Hi Guys,
I have a need to check out which type of lenz decoder I am using in some of my locos.

I know how to read out the version number by going into ID mode on the programming track.

What I could do with knowing is what each version number refers to.

i.e. so far I have managed to read the following version numbers...

I have now sourced the info I need, and added it to the version numbers below.

75......SILVER

93......STANDARD

95......LATEST SILVER+

81......OLD STANDARD

78......SILVER DIRECT

96......SILVER MINI

Is there such a thing as a version list so that I can easily refer to it.

Thanks....................Bob.

Edited by 250BOB, 05 October 2011 - 18:56 .




#2 7013

7013

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,846 posts
  • LocationBanbury

Posted 05 October 2011 - 08:03

Hi Bob
It may be worth calling A&H in Brackley as they are the agents in this country. When I have called them they have been very helpful and knowlegable.You can E mail them or call 01280 701410 They usually open at 10am. I have no connection with the shop other than customer.


Regards Andi

#3 Crosland

Crosland

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,985 posts

Posted 05 October 2011 - 11:50


Is there such a thing as a version list so that I can easily refer to it.

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/xml/XSLT/pages/DecoderId.html

Andrew Crosland

#4 BromsMods

BromsMods

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 713 posts
  • LocationBromsgrove, Worcs

Posted 05 October 2011 - 14:55

http://jmri.sourcefo.../DecoderId.html

Andrew Crosland


Not sure how up to date that list is - the version number of the very latest TCS DP2X-UK decoder (with BEMF) is 86!!

#5 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 05 October 2011 - 15:21

Hi Guys,
Thankyou all for your help......the list was of some good use, but it doesnt show all the Lenz references I was looking for.

In particular, version 93, which I suspect is a Lenz Standard, but there is no reference to it........Version 96 is not shown either.

I shall do some more searching.....and maybe email A&H if I get stuck.

Thanks again...................Bob.

#6 Nigelcliffe

Nigelcliffe

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,571 posts

Posted 05 October 2011 - 15:28


Not sure how up to date that list is - the version number of the very latest TCS DP2X-UK decoder (with BEMF) is 86!!



One or two makers are very good at publishing their version numbers. Most makers do not publish anything, so what appears is "whatever happens to be spotted by someone who can be bothered to update the list". Anyone can contribute to the JMRI project and update details.


- Nigel

#7 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 05 October 2011 - 18:08

Thanks again guys,
I have emailed A & H Models, the UK Lenz agent, and asked if they can help.
Bob.

#8 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 05 October 2011 - 18:58

I think I have managed to get all the info together, and added it to my first post against the version numbers.

Thanks everyone for your help.......much appreciated.

Just where would I be without RMweb and all you kind souls who come to my help.

Bob.

Edited by 250BOB, 05 October 2011 - 19:00 .


#9 Tony Walker

Tony Walker

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 197 posts
  • LocationWest Midlands

Posted 05 October 2011 - 19:20

Bob, Here's a few more to add to your list -

54 - Lenz 1024
61 - Gold
65 - Silver
71 - Gold
82 - Silver 21
91 - Gold Plus
95 - Silver Plus
99 - Silver 21 Plus

Also worth remembering, but that also complicates, CV128 tells you the software version on the decoder and that can vary even with the same type. I have some old Gold decoders that have numbers varying from 1 to 8.

Tony.

#10 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 05 October 2011 - 19:35

Bob, Here's a few more to add to your list -

54 - Lenz 1024
61 - Gold
65 - Silver
71 - Gold
82 - Silver 21
91 - Gold Plus
95 - Silver Plus
99 - Silver 21 Plus

Also worth remembering, but that also complicates, CV128 tells you the software version on the decoder and that can vary even with the same type. I have some old Gold decoders that have numbers varying from 1 to 8.

Tony.

Hi Tony...........wow, thanks for all them. Where did you find all of those.??

Have I got the ones on my first post correct.????

Many thanks........................Bob.
  • Thanks x 1

#11 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 06 October 2011 - 18:33

Hi Guys,
Anthony at A & H Models was kind enough to give me the following list.

70 Gold mini

71 Gold H0

72 Gold maxi

73 Köf H0

75 Silver

76 Silver mini

77 0-V36

78 Silver direct

79 Silver 21

80 LF101XF

81 Standard

82 Silver21 mit 21pol. Federleiste

83 LRC100

90 Gold mini PLUS

91 Gold (H0) PLUS

92 Gold21 PLUS

93 Standard PLUS

95 Silver PLUS

96 Silver mini PLUS

97 Silver Plux12 PLUS

98 Silver direct PLUS

99 Silver21 PLUS

Edited by 250BOB, 06 October 2011 - 18:33 .

  • Thanks x 1

#12 Tony Walker

Tony Walker

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 197 posts
  • LocationWest Midlands

Posted 06 October 2011 - 18:52

Hi Tony...........wow, thanks for all them. Where did you find all of those.??

Have I got the ones on my first post correct.????

Many thanks........................Bob.


Yes, your numbers are correct Bob. I have always been very pleased with Lenz decoders for many years, so I have quite a range and would recommend them to anyone. I keep a database of the different decoders fitted to each loco and as part of the data keep the values for cv7 and 128. Tony.

#13 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 06 October 2011 - 19:29


Yes, your numbers are correct Bob. I have always been very pleased with Lenz decoders for many years, so I have quite a range and would recommend them to anyone. I keep a database of the different decoders fitted to each loco and as part of the data keep the values for cv7 and 128. Tony.

Hi Tony,
I keep a spreadsheet of all locos, decoders and cv settings.......but I have been swapping some decoders about, and I got in a bit of a mess.
This has been an interesting excercise, and now I can easily find out which is which from the list.
I too am a Lenz system user.....and I am almost 100% lenz decoded........I have NEVER found any decoders to match their performance to suit my needs.
Regards..........................Bob..

#14 tender

tender

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,700 posts
  • LocationNorth Wales

Posted 09 October 2011 - 16:07


Yes, your numbers are correct Bob. I have always been very pleased with Lenz decoders for many years, so I have quite a range and would recommend them to anyone. I keep a database of the different decoders fitted to each loco and as part of the data keep the values for cv7 and 128. Tony.


You've not come across the firmware problem with Silver+ series then. If you change direction with the offending firmware instead of slowing to a halt and then reversing it comes to an abrupt stop regarless of the momentum CV settings.

I have 3 like this that will have to be sent back for a firmware upgrade, a real pain as thier in Bachmann 2epb's which are a job to open up. Either that or spend £100+ on a Lenz decoder programmer. Not impressed.

Ray.

#15 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 09 October 2011 - 18:04


You've not come across the firmware problem with Silver+ series then. If you change direction with the offending firmware instead of slowing to a halt and then reversing it comes to an abrupt stop regarless of the momentum CV settings.

I have 3 like this that will have to be sent back for a firmware upgrade, a real pain as thier in Bachmann 2epb's which are a job to open up. Either that or spend £100+ on a Lenz decoder programmer. Not impressed.

Ray.

Hi ray,
Havent the Lenz decoders always done this.??? If I have a Lenz decoded loco travelling on my layout, and I hit the reverse direction button while still under power, the loco immediatley stops, all my lenz decoders react like this.????
Is this what you meant, or have I misunderstood.??
Bob

Edited by 250BOB, 09 October 2011 - 18:05 .


#16 Nigelcliffe

Nigelcliffe

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,571 posts

Posted 09 October 2011 - 19:30

Hi Bob,
I don't know if a Lenz controller has a capability which does "change direction under power = emergency stop" (the Uhlenbrock Fred throttle I have does do this as a deliberate decision by the designer, but my other throttles from other makers do not).
But, if its not a design feature of the throttle, then there is something wrong with all your Lenz decoders.


The Gold I have in a Railbus behaves correctly, the way Ray describes things. As do all my other decoders from other makers.


- Nigel

Edited by Nigelcliffe, 09 October 2011 - 19:32 .


#17 tender

tender

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,700 posts
  • LocationNorth Wales

Posted 10 October 2011 - 09:40

Hi Bob/Nigel.
Yes, that's what i meant, The loco should slow to a halt then accelerate in the opposite direction not suddenly stop.
I have 8 Lenz decoders, two older Lenz Silver which behave ok, 4 Silver21+, 2 behave ok, 2 don't, a Silvermini+ which is OK and a SilverDirect+ which isn't.

Apparently this is documented on some German forums and it is suggested that the offending decoders are returned to Lenz for a Firmware upgrade.

I'll be contacting the UK agent (A & H Models) tomorrow to see if they can do the firmware upgrade.

Ray.

#18 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 10 October 2011 - 15:24

Hi Guys,
If my memory serves me correctly....every lenz decoder I have ever used performs the same way. I.E. if you hit the reverse direction button while the loco is still under power, it is like hitting the emergency stop, but for just that loco. If first you reduce the speed steps to zero, then hit the reverse direction button while the loco is still slowing, it will continue to slow normally, and come to a stop gently, ready to start off again in the opposite direction when power is re applied.

However, if my memory serves me, my pals gaugemaster prodigy system does not do this. If you reverse the direction while still under power, it comes to a gradual halt, then accelerates away in the opposite direction.

Bob.

#19 tender

tender

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,700 posts
  • LocationNorth Wales

Posted 10 October 2011 - 17:42

Hi Guys,
If my memory serves me correctly....every lenz decoder I have ever used performs the same way. I.E. if you hit the reverse direction button while the loco is still under power, it is like hitting the emergency stop, but for just that loco. If first you reduce the speed steps to zero, then hit the reverse direction button while the loco is still slowing, it will continue to slow normally, and come to a stop gently, ready to start off again in the opposite direction when power is re applied.

However, if my memory serves me, my pals gaugemaster prodigy system does not do this. If you reverse the direction while still under power, it comes to a gradual halt, then accelerates away in the opposite direction.

Bob.

Hi Bob.
Looks like there are some inconsistancies maybe depending on which system you use. I'm using a NCE Power Pro system and tried your suggestion (selecting speed step zero and then change direction), but it still stops dead the instant the direction button is pressed. Like i said, it only happens with some of my more recent Lenz+ version decoders.
I contacted A & H Models today and the gentleman didn't appear to be aware of this problem or of a firmware fix. Still i'm gonig to send one back to him for testing. I can only live in hope, as this problem mucks up the computer control (Rocrail) of my layout.
If worse comes to worse i'll have to ditch the offending decoders and go back to TCS ones which don't have any of these anomalies.

Ray.

#20 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 10 October 2011 - 20:59

Hi Bob.
Looks like there are some inconsistancies maybe depending on which system you use. I'm using a NCE Power Pro system and tried your suggestion (selecting speed step zero and then change direction), but it still stops dead the instant the direction button is pressed. Like i said, it only happens with some of my more recent Lenz+ version decoders.
I contacted A & H Models today and the gentleman didn't appear to be aware of this problem or of a firmware fix. Still i'm gonig to send one back to him for testing. I can only live in hope, as this problem mucks up the computer control (Rocrail) of my layout.
If worse comes to worse i'll have to ditch the offending decoders and go back to TCS ones which don't have any of these anomalies.

Ray.

Hi Ray,
Certainly not a problem I have encountered with new or old Lenz decoders of all types, even the current Plus range, of which I am using about 25. That said, I am using a Lenz control system too, so I am not encountering any problems whatsoever.
Keep us informed as to what you find out.
Regards...................Bob

#21 Nigelcliffe

Nigelcliffe

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,571 posts

Posted 10 October 2011 - 22:45

Bob, Ray,

its "what I said above".

When designing a Throttle, the designer can choose to behave (at least) two ways if the user changes direction with a non-zero speed selected.

option A which Lenz appear to use according to Bob's reports, as does the Uhlenbrock Fred which I own. Throttle will issue an "emergency stop" packet to the current decoder. Result, decoder stops instantly. All decoders will do this regardless of maker.

option B which appears to be used by Gaugemaster(MRC), NCE, certainly used by Digitrax (I own a couple of different ones) and Sprog. Throttle will issue a new "direction" packet to the decoder. Result, the decoder slows following CV4, changes direction, then accelerates following CV3 to the set speed.

Now, Ray has found some Lenz decoders which appear to be faulty if used on controllers which exhibit behaviour B. This is confirmed on some German forums. However, anyone owning a controller which have behaviour A will never see the problem because the controller issues the "emergency stop" packet if the user tries to carry out the reverse.

There seems to be a suggestion of a pattern in the choice of A or B above. European makers in A, and US makers in B. Its not total, but suggestion of a trend. Therefore if returning decoder to A&H, specify that they have to test on a system which is known to behave like B.


- Nigel

Edited by Nigelcliffe, 10 October 2011 - 22:46 .


#22 tender

tender

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,700 posts
  • LocationNorth Wales

Posted 10 October 2011 - 23:30

Bob, Ray,

its "what I said above".

When designing a Throttle, the designer can choose to behave (at least) two ways if the user changes direction with a non-zero speed selected.

option A which Lenz appear to use according to Bob's reports, as does the Uhlenbrock Fred which I own. Throttle will issue an "emergency stop" packet to the current decoder. Result, decoder stops instantly. All decoders will do this regardless of maker.

option B which appears to be used by Gaugemaster(MRC), NCE, certainly used by Digitrax (I own a couple of different ones) and Sprog. Throttle will issue a new "direction" packet to the decoder. Result, the decoder slows following CV4, changes direction, then accelerates following CV3 to the set speed.

Now, Ray has found some Lenz decoders which appear to be faulty if used on controllers which exhibit behaviour B. This is confirmed on some German forums. However, anyone owning a controller which have behaviour A will never see the problem because the controller issues the "emergency stop" packet if the user tries to carry out the reverse.

There seems to be a suggestion of a pattern in the choice of A or B above. European makers in A, and US makers in B. Its not total, but suggestion of a trend. Therefore if returning decoder to A&H, specify that they have to test on a system which is known to behave like B.


- Nigel

Hi Nigel/Bob
Thanks for your posting and suggestion of the Americian verse European modus operandi. My throttle (NCE) has a separate 'emergency stop' button so having the same with the direction would only duplicated the function.
I'm sending one of the decoders to A&H tomorrow to see if a firmware upgrade fixes it.
(assuming A&H can do this).

Regards
Ray.

#23 250BOB

250BOB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • LocationUttoxeter, Staffs

Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:44

Hi Nigel/Bob
Thanks for your posting and suggestion of the Americian verse European modus operandi. My throttle (NCE) has a separate 'emergency stop' button so having the same with the direction would only duplicated the function.
I'm sending one of the decoders to A&H tomorrow to see if a firmware upgrade fixes it.
(assuming A&H can do this).

Regards
Ray.

Hi Ray,
On the Lenz we have a RED emergency stop button also.....everything completely stops.!!!!!
However, if you only want to Emergency Stop just ONE loco only, then you hit the reverse direction button while that loco is under power. That has always been the case with every Lenz decoder I have ever used............so in fact, the reverse direction button does NOT act as a duplicate to the Emergency Stop button. I find it quite useful (or really I should say Extremely Useful ) to emergency stop just one offending loco at times, and be able to leave the rest running, then no one notices you have cocked up.!!!
Cheers....................Bob.

Edited by 250BOB, 11 October 2011 - 15:46 .


#24 tender

tender

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,700 posts
  • LocationNorth Wales

Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:49

Hi Ray, On the Lenz we have a RED emergency stop button also.....everything completely stops.!!!!! However, if you only want to Emergency Stop just ONE loco only, then you hit the reverse direction button while that loco is under power. That has always been the case with every Lenz decoder I have ever used............so in fact, the reverse direction button does NOT act as a duplicate to the Emergency Stop button. I find it quite useful (or really I should say Extremely Useful ) to emergency stop just one offending loco at times, and be able to leave the rest running, then no one notices you have cocked up.!!! Cheers....................Bob.


Ah. another difference between manufactures, the emergency stop button on my throttle only stops the currently selected train. I have a big red button on the layout to stop the whole lot.

#25 Nigelcliffe

Nigelcliffe

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,571 posts

Posted 12 October 2011 - 12:14


Ah. another difference between manufactures, the emergency stop button on my throttle only stops the currently selected train. I have a big red button on the layout to stop the whole lot.


I think NCE will shut down the entire layout with multi-tap (three times?) of the emergency stop button.


- Nigel