Early Wagons from the Dawn of Railways

[hmrspaul]

 

Paul.

 

Can you tell me if the drawings featured in the series on 1840's rolling stock are available for purchase separately,

or have I got to buy the relevant back issues of The Journal ?

 

Mac.

No I believe they have been specially prepared for the Journal - patent applications have been a primary source for some.

 

If you get in touch with the Librarian at the Study centre - via the website - I think they can let you have photocopies. OF course, membership is really recommended for someone interested in the history of railway.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Mac]

No I believe they have been specially prepared for the Journal - patent applications have been a primary source for some.

 

If you get in touch with the Librarian at the Study centre - via the website - I think they can let you have photocopies. OF course, membership is really recommended for someone interested in the history of railway.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Thanks, I'll do that.

I was looking through the site last night.

 

I'm interested in specific areas of railway history and would rather subscribe to the Groups

(like the NBRSG...NERA...etc) which concentrate on those particular areas

 

The HMRS Journal appears to cover too broad a range of topics for my taste, though some

of their books are excellent.

 

Mac.

[relaxinghobby]

 

More old style wagons, the round end one was from a metal kit, can't remember whos.

 

The brake van was scratch built from a drawing in the Model Railway News years back. It is a North Eastern Railway mineral brake.

I had marked it out on a sheet of plasticard, scratching in the planking but never cut out the sides and end for years, then after a decades rest the

model was completed. I think that was because I could not work out how to do the look out.

 

I like the bird cage lookouts of these old vehicles.

[BernardTPM]

Great Birdcage! Is the SECR wagon the old K's kit?

[relaxinghobby]

No it's not the K's, you must be thinking of their LBSCR round ended wagon, the one that Cambrian Wagon Kits do currently, we have several of those too.

 

I think it is a D & S white metal kit, but I have not kept notes.

 

Here is a better photo of Lion, the Sun came out so enabling a sharper photo.

 

 

 

Here's lion again, looks like she is towing a dead Single? It shows the difference in size of the loco's but they are still much smaller than the usual Jinty of Pannier tank models considered the smallest of the modern 20th century model fleet.

[BernardTPM]

My apologies - the K's catalogue described their model as an ex-SECR tarpaulin wagon; I assume that description is wrong then!

[BernardTPM]

Though those 'Mataro' coaches are H0, they still scale out larger than the, admittedly tiny, Bodmin & Wadebridge coaches in 4mm scale, so it's possible they are big enough for something else!

[relaxinghobby]

Here are some attempts at coaches based on the isolated Bodmin and Wadeford railway system in 19th century Cornwall, the L/H is scratch built and is based on a grainy old photo. the other two are made up from kits for 009 models with new wider ends, they are perhaps a bit too small.

 

The loco is simply an Airfix/Dapol pug kit plonked onto a Tenshodo spud motor bogie.

 

 

[relaxinghobby]

Whilst running these train I found I had wired up the motors in the opposite polarity to standard so on the turn of the knob some would go one way and another would go in the opposite way. Not a very efficient way to run a railway, and makes it impossible to double head a train.

 

Whilst I had them apart for re-soldering the motor wires I took some pictures of the normally hidden part to show other scratch builders what I did as I know some people like to see all the working bits.

 

first the 2-4-0 tank has a chassis made from a Mainly Trains etched kit, assembled more or less exactly as the designer intended.

 

 

The plasticard body is packed with lead.

[relaxinghobby]

 

The single belly-up. Pick-ups in the tender, loco trailing wheels pivot at their center to give 3 point suspension with the fixed driving axle, the leading wheels just float on the end of a of wire with a lead weight to hold them down.

 

 

Boiler shell packed with lead.

 

 

Tiny Mashima motor and 38 to 1 gears from Branchlines.

 

 

Chassis is 30 thou brass narrowed at front and back, allowing room for the trailing wheels to rock and the leading wheels to swing sideways and lead the little loco whizzing around tight train set curves.

[hmrspaul]

 

Thanks, I'll do that.

I was looking through the site last night.

 

I'm interested in specific areas of railway history and would rather subscribe to the Groups

(like the NBRSG...NERA...etc) which concentrate on those particular areas

 

The HMRS Journal appears to cover too broad a range of topics for my taste, though some

of their books are excellent.

 

Mac.

Mac

 

A very sad response. The one society that is attempting to integrate modelling and historical archiving and making them readily available. The November Journal has more of Davisons models, drawings and research.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Donw]

Richard Davison has done quite a few articles on old wagons for the gauge 0 gazette. The first I remember was about 1997/8. if you are a member you can search on line for them.

Don

[Mac]

Richard Davison has done quite a few articles on old wagons for the gauge 0 gazette. The first I remember was about 1997/8. if you are a member you can search on line for them.

Don

 

Don.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the GOG articles.

 

Mac.

[relaxinghobby]

Great Birdcage! Is the SECR wagon the old K's kit?

 

 

Here are two round ended open goods wagons of the middle Victorian years.

The left hand LB&SCR is from the Cambrian range of plastic kits, Ks had a white metal kit of the same prototype.

The right hand one is a white metal but of the old D & S range I think.

[relaxinghobby]

Lovely stuff! I've always thought early prototype stock and track would be great to model - I used to read avidly Stone Blocks and Iron Rails by Bertram Baxter (great name) and visit sites of early railways when I could. The waggons (yes I guess two ggs for your period!) look the part to me - is it a gravity run / horse hauled line you're modelling there, or loco-hauled? I was nearly tempted a few months back to buy a second-hand 00 Hornby 'Rocket' and coaches set but when the auction bids went well over £100 I had to stop myself...

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

Ah I think I can see your point, the picture shows the wagons sitting on the coal drops, the rails are soldered to little squares of brass to make it

easier to glue the rail down to the plasticard structure.

So it looks a bit like rail on stone blocks.

A possible track construction method for a horse 'waggon' way perhaps.

[BernardTPM]

The left hand LB&SCR is from the Cambrian range of plastic kits, Ks had a white metal kit of the same prototype.

It does appear to be the same as that in the K's catalogue, though theirs also had a tarpaulin bar guide on the end. Coupled next to their Adam's Radial tank though it's possible to see that it doesn't have the more braced ends of the SECR version, so clearly their catalogue description is wrong. Then again they did a GNR type brake van and described it as ex-NER so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised!

[Mac]

 

More old style wagons, the round end one was from a metal kit, can't remember whos.

 

The brake van was scratch built from a drawing in the Model Railway News years back. It is a North Eastern Railway mineral brake.

I had marked it out on a sheet of plasticard, scratching in the planking but never cut out the sides and end for years, then after a decades rest the

model was completed. I think that was because I could not work out how to do the look out.

 

I like the bird cage lookouts of these old vehicles.

 

Rh.

 

Do you refer to any particular sources for your early railways Loco's/Stock ?

I found the Alan Prior book a great read.

 

Mac.

[Penlan]

........... used to be available from a rather dodgy outfit known as Woodham Wagon Works.......

Dodgy? Perhaps there's an element of TIC in this remark, I hope so.

 

I have some of their dumb buffered wagons and also this early (working) sprung buffered Acid Tank Waggon complete with 5 link couplings - A detail sometimes missed off 19th Century stock - However they did letter their stock a bit better than this -

Oh!!! isn't digital photography wonderful ?

The wheels look very early Gibson's (thick) I will have to swop them with some fine/thin old PC Models ones I have in THAT box.....

 

 

 

Another book with lots of detailed drawings of early Coal Waggons is L.Tavender's 'Coal Trade Wagons', published by himself, ISBN 0 9510987 1 3.

 

The Prior book seems to have a lot of the early Henson Drawings in it. Birmingham City Libraries has a large collection of the Metropolitan C & W drawings including all the early Joseph Wright vehicles. It's some 30 years since I had my A1 print copies from their MicroFilm images and the above Henson drawings too.

 

The Henson drawings were produced for a report on early rolling stock, but I can't find the reference at present - I was concemtrating on 1850's LNWR items at the time.

 

The only early Joseph Wright coach I have now is this etched kit from Henry Boucher some (is it that long) xx years ago - It seems to have lost it's side coupling chains and the old braking system!!!

 

.....

 

BTW there's three early wagon at Perth about 1862 in an original photo I have posted on the Railways of Scotland part of this Forum - this is some detail.....

 

[Mac]

 

 

 

Another book with lots of detailed drawings of early Coal Waggons is L.Tavender's 'Coal Trade Wagons', published by himself, ISBN 0 9510987 1 3.

 

The Prior book seems to have a lot of the early Henson Drawings in it. Birmingham City Libraries has a large collection of the Metropolitan C & W drawings including all the early Joseph Wright vehicles. It's some 30 years since I had my A1 print copies from their MicroFilm images and the above Henson drawings too.

 

The Henson drawings were produced for a report on early rolling stock, but I can't find the reference at present - I was concemtrating on 1850's LNWR items at the time.

 

 

Penlan.

 

Thanks for the details on the L Tavender book. It sounds interesting and I'll try to read it.

The author's name rings a bell somewhere, but I can't remember what else he's known for!

 

I'm getting the series of R Davidson articles through a friend and hope these may form the basis

for some new early railways stock.

 

On a similar subject...Can you recall 'The Early Railways Group' from around 10 years ago?

They had a small website but I think the whole concept died through lack of numbers.

 

One of their layouts was an O Gauge plank run called Allison Street. I think it was CR set in the 1850's.

 

 

Mac.

[relaxinghobby]

 

Rh.

 

Do you refer to any particular sources for your early railways Loco's/Stock ?

I found the Alan Prior book a great read.

 

Mac.

 

I've the source of the drawing for the NER roof lookout mineral brake;

 

Model Railways September 1975 pages 454 to 456.

 

The ideal engine to go with it would be an antique long boiler type

[Poor Old Bruce]

I haven't seen it mentined yet on this thread but I assume readers are aware of the 'Chatham' kits available from Roxey (usual disclaimer).

 

http://roxeymouldings.co.uk/store_front/index.php?cat_id=14&catname='CHATHAM

[Penlan]

.....I assume readers are aware of the 'Chatham' kits available from Roxey...

I knew of the Chatham kits, but had not realised they were with Roxey now, I must get out to a few more exhibitions... Thanks for the link.

 

What is the wheelbase of the short LBSCR Ballast wagon please,

Oh! and thus, the 'Long Wheelbase' Ballast Wagon, both of which look 'short' to me.

 

PS - I suppose somebody is going to tell me the Chatham kits have always been part of Roxey's stable.

[Poor Old Bruce]

What is the wheelbase of the short LBSCR Ballast wagon please,

Oh! and thus, the 'Long Wheelbase' Ballast Wagon, both of which look 'short' to me.

Good question! I may have one buried in a cupboard somewhere. The only one I have built so far is the 'Parry' coal wagon which has a wb of 32mm or 8ft (or it did have until the non-rocking MJT inside bearing thingy just fell off) and 52mm over headstocks.

[Nick Holliday]

I have just dug out two of the original Woodham Wagon Works ballast wagons, and the short one would appear to have a 7' 0" wheelbase, as per Southern Wagons book, and the "long" one seems to have a 7' 9" wheelbase. I don't know if the Roxey versions are exactly the same, I know they have specially etched w-irons, and maybe the masters were worked on as well. The Chatham range of LCDR stock and the two etched Brighton items has been a part of the Roxey empire for some time, and some of the WWW range were taken under the same wing more recently, whilst other bits are available from 5&9 MOdels.

[relaxinghobby]

It does appear to be the same as that in the K's catalogue, though theirs also had a tarpaulin bar guide on the end. Coupled next to their Adam's Radial tank though it's possible to see that it doesn't have the more braced ends of the SECR version, so clearly their catalogue description is wrong. Then again they did a GNR type brake van and described it as ex-NER so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised!

 

 

A comparison of models of the same wagon but made from different sources.

 

 

 

K's kit white metal, Cambrian kit plastic without tarpaulin bar, and with bar, Kenline cardboard kit.

 

The K's kit has a plastic floor to help reduce the weight, to get the sides and end square there are gaps in the corners that will need filling, The two Cambrian kits have gone together nicely, The Kenline has the spare plastic ends from the Cambrian kits cut to make a better curve as the original cardboard ends had a shape that was too low in my opinion and compared to drawings. The strapping was added from plastic and paper strip.

 

I see a kit as a set of parts enabling various versions of a prototype to be made at different times of it's life.

 

 

Close up showing the corner gaps in the K's kit, I used low melt solder to fix the four sides in the right position relative to each other and then glued in the plastic floor.