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Building a Modelex GWR 45xx


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  • RMweb Gold

Thanks, I will give that a try.

 

Another couple of questions.....

 

First up the inside motion, I think the kit only includes two components, which it says to fit to two lengths of .9mm brass rod and fit into the chassis. Firstly I would like to make it removable to make painting easier. To achieve this I am to cut two groves into the mounting bracket above the top of the frame, this way it will drop directly into place once the red insides of the chassis have been painted.

The issue is that I am still unsure as to what spacing to use between the motion and the frame.

(As an aside does anyone have any photos showing between the frames of a preserved 45xx?)

 

The other question is regarding the chimney and copper thingie half way along the boiler (afraid I am not sure what its callled). The Modelex/Mitchell parts for the "thingie" look a fair bit smaller than the Bachmann part and I am wondering which is correct. Also, there is both a turned brass and white metal chimney included, the brass one doesnt appear to have the same base plate size as the white metal (the latter looking very similar to the Bachmann one). Again any assistance as to which to use would be welcome, purely because I would like to replace the chimney on the Bachmann model to get rid of the trench between it and the body)

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Safety valve bonnet Rich.

 

The class may have had copper capped or iron chimneys hence a selection. Finney and Mitchell kits tend to come with wm and brass chimneys too though so it might even be an upgrade added to the kit.

 

Ozzo may be able to help from his build if you post up piccies of the pair.

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As far as the thingie is concerned, I said in an earlier post:

 

Other things to be aware of include the height of the safety valve bonnet. All except the final 1928-9 batch were built with tall bonnets, though some may have had short ones fitted at a later date.

 

The final 1928-9 batch were 5545-74. The photo of 4573 on p200 of the Harman book shows a tall bonnet. If you look at the photo of a 2251 on p203, that looks like a short bonnet. Look at how high the top feed covers are relative to the total height.

 

The 1924 batch (lot 226, 4555-4575) were the first to be built with cast iron chimneys. Earlier lots had copper top types.

 

Nick

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  • RMweb Gold

Thanks again,

Still have a lot to learn on the terminology!

 

Having spent breakfast looking over the book and photos I can see what you mean. Tall bonnet it is, so will need to get a new brass turning for the tall version once I start building the kit. In the mean time, the short bonnet can be used for fitting to my 2220 (or 3215, both will probably be modelled eventually) I think comparing with the photo on Harman p200 they both show the same short bonnet.

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  • RMweb Gold

Today I finally started construction of the body,

 

So far I have folded up the sub footplate, soldered the front of the curved footplate section to the valances and made a start on soldering the top of the footplate to the sub footplate.

 

One issue I have experenced so far is that I am struggling to get a decent solder bond between the two components, (using solder paste and a temp controlled iron set much hotter than the solder as that seemed to be the only way to get things melting).

the solder that is going on is a good colour (shiny etc), it just doesnt seem to be sucked into the joint as I expected it to.

The two parts are bolted together, and a couple of clamps are being used to hold either side of where I am soldering (working about an inch at a time along the length. Having to work with short distances with the assembly resting on top of a lima ballast weight so as to clear the lamp irons/leaver that are sticking out of the top.)

 

Enjoying progress so far, though its now been interrupted by the need to take the dog out to her puppy training class...

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A couple of thoughts. Firstly, are you using plenty of flux? Yes it does contain a flux and can be made to work as it comes out of the syringe, but it flows much more easily if you use plenty of flux. I use Carr's yellow mostly, but others swear by other types. Secondly, you do need a really hot iron and all those bolts and clamps may be providing a significant extra heat sink. It is usually easier to join these larger components by tack soldering first before trying to get a good long seam done between them. It might be better to rest them on a piece of wood rather than a large metal heat-absorbing weight.

 

Nick

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What buffalo said i'd agree with though I use 12% phosphoric acid or even stronger if I can make some. I found the Finney kits from this sort of age had quite a poor brass that needed stronger flux or a heck of a lot of cleaning, normally i'd use 9%. Your kit may be the same. Tin the footplate underside with 145deg first as well.

 

I use wooden support, normally excess sleeper strip helps to get into small spaces and away from my fingers when its doubled up. Don't use pine or similar as the resin inside can heat up and make a mess.

 

I normally stick the top on before the side overlays too in case there are alignment issues. Its easier to fudge the side overlays to make it look neater!

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  • RMweb Gold

Cheers,

 

I have had another crack this evening using Carrs Red Label flux (purely because that was the first bottle that came to hand), worked much better. Wacking the soldering iron up to 11 also helped.

 

Will re do the rest of it tomorrow (thank you Airbus for only working Friday mornings!)

 

Thanks for the help

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  • RMweb Gold

Another question, (that might require asking else where)

 

I think I am missing a page of instructions! the first page (of construction instructions) relates to the foot plate, finishing with soldering on the buffer beams. The second page looks like it starts half way through a paragraph talking about soldering on bits of the bunker. It seems to have completely missed out any mention of the box formers, the sides, and a fair few other components (that I cant find mentioned on the next couple of pages.

Does anyone else have the Modelex kit who can do me a scan of their instructions/confirm if I am missing the obvious

 

I've made a little more progress, the curved front to the footplate has been added (an absolute sod of a task), after which I soldered together the buffer beams (tinning both sides then adding a touch of solder paste before sandwiching and applying lots of heat). These were then soldered to the footplate.

 

I then spent some time preping the components I thought I needed for the bunker, only to realise the above problem that I believe half the instructions are missing. I have now folded up the two body sub frames but dont really want to dig out the soldering iron until I know exactly what needs to be done first!

 

Unfortunately I have made a stupid mistake, my reflex reaction when I drop something at my work bench is to quickly close my legs to catch it (and avoid having to hunt on the floor). In the past as a result of this I have caught scalples and soldering irons in my leg...

This time it was worse, while soldering on the front top the footplate assembly fell off the work bench. Rather than letting it fall safely to the floor I caught it, bending the front section (forward of the kink) 90 degrees to the rest. Its now straitened out, but all my hard work ensuring that it was perfectly flat has been lost and there is a kink in the footplate that I just cant get rid of. I've now started modelling with a cutting mat on my lap to stop this happening again! I am thinking about soldering some brass strip to the underside of the chassis to reinforce the weak joint, and to ensure it stays straight.

 

I have also found another issue with the model. As previously mentioned the chassis came part built. Ive just found out it was part built for a short bunker loco, where as I am building the long bunker...

Looks like I need to lengthen the frames!

 

Photos so far:

post-54-0-45816400-1322242808_thumb.jpg

post-54-0-01150000-1322242816_thumb.jpg

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Rich

You may want to use some 1.5mm 'L' angle for strengthening. This will probably fit behind the footplate valance and not be seen. This is a dodge I used on the Falcon brass County, although for different reasons.

 

Mike

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  • RMweb Gold

Hello Mike,

 

this looks very similar to the Malcolm Mitchell 44xx that I've just built, have a look on my build thread it may give you some ideas.

 

OzzyO.

Thanks for the reminder, I had copied the entire build into word to print off then realised my printer had no ink and forgot about it. reading that I might have folded up the rear cab section the wrong way round. I'd say I am definitely missing instructions!

Will ensure that for future steps I read your thread for guidance first!

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reading that I might have folded up the rear cab section the wrong way round.

 

Hello Rich,

 

I've just had a look at my build of the 44xx (page 9 mess.202) and it looks the same as the one I did. For some reason the rear fold lines are on the outside of the bend not the inside as normal. Check the cab floor supports for hight with the fold down section of the cab floor.

 

OzzyO.

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  • RMweb Gold

Progress

 

Having the instructions helps, it really does.

Using you iPhone on the workbench while soldering so that you can read said instructions on the other hand, slightly less good idea....

 

Its nice that the loco is now starting to look like what it is supposed to be,

Since the last (modelling) post the following work has been completed:

  • Body sub frame fitted to footplate
  • Cab interior detail (back of bunker and internal tank sides) added, that was a particularly fiddly job soldering behind the reversing leaver. though a couple of aluminium hair clip clamps really helped. (Havent told Helen where they have got to yet...)
  • Fitted the spectacle plate (using an aluminium engineers square to keep perpendicular to the tank top). Interesting to see the names more components were originally called, I'd have been referring to it as the windscreen! As per my prototype I have used the version without the two additional windows
  • Sweated together the two parts for the rear of the cab, it looks like there was a very slight movement here as one side needed to be filleted with solder, while the other needed slightly filing back to get a perfect fit. To compund things, the Instructions were not clear what way round to fit the thick section of the rear cab wall. ie which direction the half etched doors should have faced. The exploded diagram appeared not to show any detail on the inside, and the Bachmann model has doors on the outside so I have soldered it with the doors facing outwards. Looking at Ozzyo's 44xx build I may well have fitted this the wrong way round! Oh well, it will have to stay there as I dont want to risk making things worse trying to fix it.
  • The next task is one that I am not so looking forward to, another case of needing a curved bend in the brass to get the tank sides to shape. One option I am considering is to solder a length of brass tube onto the inside of the tank corner, and use this as a former. it means I can solder on the main length of side and then fabricate the curve insitue. Of course this means a delay while I order more brass (unless there is a model shop in North Bristol that sells brass strip / rod.....)
  • After that it will be working on the bunker, another job I am dreading. A big issue is that I dont know how I am going to anneal the part (I would have used a gas cooker but I have electric...)

Photo of the current stage (still need to clean up last nights soldering, hence the mess!)

 

post-54-0-87789600-1322587523_thumb.jpg

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Hi Rich,

 

As you say, it is beginning to look like a real engine (although, i have to bite my tongue quite hard to say that of a GW loco!).

 

Hair clips, pegs, self closing tongs etc are all jolly handy; as are bits of bluetac (as long as it does not get hot - it is difficult yuck to get rid of them!) Try getting some Carrs hot tape too - this is basically sellotape that can withstand heat and is a godsend.

 

I think you may find you have cut and pasted your posting twice into the same post. Alternatively, you do go on a bit...............!!!!

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With the tanks Rich just mark the line with a CD pen and then bend the line round a drill bit lifting the part from flat on the workbench. Its when I just did on the tender. If you try soldering tube in there you might have solder in the wrong place and cause a right mess. You also need to form such things over a smaller diameter as they relieve when done, you'll be soldering it under stress in your idea I think..

 

I didn't bother annealing anything there either, brass is quite flexible anyway compared to NS.

 

As I said elsewhere, short chunks of ply sleepers or scrap tend to help protect the fingers and can help you put a bit of force on an awkward to reach area.

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...
  • The next task is one that I am not so looking forward to, another case of needing a curved bend in the brass to get the tank sides to shape. One option I am considering is to solder a length of brass tube onto the inside of the tank corner, and use this as a former...
  • After that it will be working on the bunker, another job I am dreading. A big issue is that I dont know how I am going to anneal the part (I would have used a gas cooker but I have electric...)...

 

 

Rich,

 

Looks like you're making good progress. Does this kit include parts to do the early square front step in the running plate? If so, I might be tempted...

 

I'm not convinced that soldering the rod/tube to the inside is a good idea. A more conventional approach would be do do the bending on a cutting mat, using a steel ruler to keep the bend straight:

 

post-6746-0-50371000-1322602583.jpg

 

or, clamp the work and the rod in a vice. Again, use a ruler to keep the bend straight:

 

post-6746-0-86875300-1322602581.jpg

 

If there is any half-etched detail on the outside, just use some thin card to protect it if clamping in the vice. The surface of a cutting mat is usually good enough to protect such detail.

 

Unless the brass is quite thick or hard, you probably won't need to anneal it. If you do, a small gas soldering torch is ideal for most 4mm applications. Some people working in 7mm actually use them for soldering. In 4mm they are most useful when you need to disassemble some large pieces that you've put together wrongly and the iron won't touch it.

 

Nick

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Hello Rich, all,

 

for doing the front tank and tender rear corners. I made this tool from some 3mm or 1/8" silver steel and a disc of 13/4" aluminium, it does help to keep the bends square

post-8920-0-53092100-1322654354_thumb.jpg

 

and the tool in use, this was posed for the photo

post-8920-0-83533700-1322654419_thumb.jpg

 

IIRC the bend is marked by two small pips on the top edge of the tank, this is the start and finish of the bend.

 

OzzyO.

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  • RMweb Gold

Really did not like the task of getting that bend into the front of the tank. took about 4 attempts to get both a straight line, and get the positioning right. better instructions would definitely help, phrases like "use a drill bit/rod of the appropriate diameter" is just completely useless. I would expect as a minimum for the appropriate diameter to at least be stated! a set of dimensions would have been useful as well, stating the distance from the end that the cl of the rod should be etc. Simple things that would make assembling a lot easier.

 

If only everyone could take a leaf out of Colin Craig's book when it comes to instructions!!!

 

Anyway, after rolling the curve then flattening out again umpteen times I have finally got the right hand side soldered on (though a lot of tidying is still needed). It wasnt sure but I cut off the tab at the bottom of the cab door. Certainly its not there on the Bachmann model and I dont think its there on the preserved loco either. The text doesnt state either way, while the exploded diagram appears to show it insitue.

 

Now to go and get the corner fitted to the other tank...

I dont mind fabricating curved parts if its a continuous curve, and normal 90degree square folds are a piece of cake, but this business of getting a 90 degree curve in the middle of a flat plate I am finding difficult

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Well at least the 3500g tender im doing stated 2mm dia drill for the rear corners though that was probably the highlight of them. Withthe kit you having being his first kit I really dread to think what you have to work with. On the plus side the kits areprototypically accurate and have good fit of parts so I can see why they would have been raved about in the late 80s and early 90s.

 

Once you've worked out the correct dia it should be a case of having the short part flat on the table, place the drill between two markers at each end. Hold the drill with the one hand while folding up the rest of the etch with the other. Easier to do it having over the edge of a table. Folding it slightly over 90deg is useful then you can push it into the corner and tack solder in place to check it.

 

Just thank your lucky stars you don't have any exposed flares to deal with :P.

 

The loco footsteps are probably a tedious butt joint affair when they could have folded and tab and slotted if mine are anything to go by.

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