Mighty Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 How about a different way of looking at this? I've seen on another forum where a 'mute' button is available. If you don't like/aren't interested in the content or think it's not worth your while, simply click mute and the thread disappears. That way it is up to the individual what content to prune, rather than one person dictating (sorry Andy - I don't mean it like that!) what everyone else can or should see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The ones Andy highlighted were just people putting some mundane thoughts down on a blog. Interesting to them, but it doesn't benefit anyone who reads them, in fact it just wastes their time. I don't really want to read about someone's shopping list... But this statement applies to Blogs in the wider world and the whole business of Twitter and the Status comments on here. All generally banal and of no real value to modelling. I haven't checked, but if the two examples given were from new members then they would be unaware of the the unwritten "policy" of only having exceptional modelling content in the blogs. Perhaps they have mistaken blogs for the status comments? Perhaps they are just testing or learning how to use the software before adding their modelling content. We are lucky that for topics there has always been the Wheeltappers Forum which contains some real rubbish (IMO the games for a start) but also comes up with some general interest gems of topics. Perhaps what is missing is a Wwheeltappers area of blogs - no perhaps not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 And how would the process of setting up a blog on here be confused with making a status update? Of course they know what they're doing. I think there should be a quality standard applicable to them when it is a facility that is paid for by me, you and many other members. If they are testing why keep writing about precisely bu**er all and their changes of mind and direction and not show any productive activity? Status updates can be an amusing diversion in several cases (of one wishes to be amused that is) and we do have to remove some that are questions that should be asked in a topic format, wasting electrons about the site being slow or even a link to a topic (self-promotion). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Status updates can be an amusing diversion in several cases (of one wishes to be amused that is) and we do have to remove some that are questions that should be asked in a topic format, wasting electrons about the site being slow or even a link to a topic (self-promotion). And are easily ignored or even turned off. I did find it a bit cheeky when someone used them to promote their own external blog though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Then it begs the question Andy - has the blog format moved beyond the scope of it being free and available to all members, and instead in the hands of dedicated authors? I think if there was a thread (dare I say it!) outlining how to set up a blog, code an index, and generally what was expected of blogs in the current format, then members would try and make their blogs more than they currently are. I'm thoroughly frustrated as anyone by some of the blog posts which detract from some truly terrific material being written up and made. Equally there are blogs with terrific material which are badly organized. Rather than deletion, education and maybe we'll see the blog format better understood and interacted with than receiving the dozen or so protestations of "ignoring them" and "not bothering" half the time. That can only happen when everyone on a level playing field understands what is expected of them when creating one for this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think if there was a thread (dare I say it!) outlining how to set up a blog, code an index, and generally what was expected of blogs in the current format, then members would try and make their blogs more than they currently are. I'm thoroughly frustrated as anyone by some of the blog posts which detract from some truly terrific material being written up and made. Equally there are blogs with terrific material which are badly organized. Mine could be seen as being messy, however I do hope that the by using Tags and Categories readers can find any content that they wish to. Maybe if I was more computor literate I would re-organise like SAC Martin has. No terrific material in mine though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think that using the term "blog" is part of the problem - it seems that some people are treating them as actual blogs, and posting whatever random thoughts with a vague connection to model railways come in to their head. In a few cases they seem to be turning in to wishlists of what they might possibly buy (or get their Mum to buy them for Christmas). As Kenton said, there's an unwritten rule on what to use the blog feature for. that may not be apparent to newer or younger members. Perhaps this could be be made clearer by renaming the blogs to "Modelling Projects" or "Workbench blog" or something similar. This would doubt lead to some future complaints about how the blogs are elitist, and exclude those who stick to RTR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Here we go again, this thread is just turning into a endless series of "Blogs are a Good Thing" versus "Blogs are a Bad Thing". We've been there before many times and we all know that some of you can't be bothered, don't care what you're missing, don't understand how they work, etc. Let's stick to the point. This thread started with Andy reporting that he is taking action to remove the dross that gets in the way of finding the often excellent material in the blogs. From my point of view, this is most welcome. Nick Hardly the whole of my entry quoted above. Mt entry not only covered Blogs, there were a few other points made and its my opinion . As said earlier there is huge amounts of "waffle" or anything else you like to call it on this Forum . I presumed from the comments, that Andy is looking at ways of reducing "waffle" on the Forum as a whole perhaps I misunderstood. I have no opinion re Blogs either way for the reasons are already stated. Old Ludders made a much better overall point re Blogs etc in a following message Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted November 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2011 I wasn't at all sure folk could find my elderly blogs and so I deleted 80% of of them and diverted into a long running carriage thread instead. I found a thread is more inviting to folk who want to get involved and add their own findings and ideas, So for instance a discussion on a particular type of coach becomes topical for a while until we move onto the next vehicle. In addition, I can keep it tidier by pruming out my own material when it becomes superfluous. Having read this and seeing how some of the better blogs are written/organised I can see me going back to the 'thread' approach. Although I thought blogs were a good idea when first introduced I am now thinking that there is some skill required in making a good one, and that many people who have interesting content won't go near them. Although I try to only post on my own blog when I think I've got something worth saying, you can look back and see that alot of it is links back to past RMweb -and various thoughts on the next layout - none of which is any actual modelling! You notice the most successful blogs are those who are fast moving modellers, who must have enough time to build and write up their subjects, by suceesful I mean engagement and participation of readers. Personally I am generally against the 'tiering' of RMweb as I dont believe the fact that you can model or write up is seperate, there are some who are good at writing up, some who are good at modelling- some can do both and some can do neither. Those are just my observations- I doubt they actually help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 The blog facility was set up on RMweb for modellers to have a different channel to communicate about their modelling, prototype info or meaningful discourses. It does wind me up when I see stuff like these which isn't ever going to be of interest to anyone bar the writer. http://www.rmweb.co....7919-all-quiet/ http://www.rmweb.co....rose-silverfox/ Such things just waste the reader's time and devalue the whole concept of placing the author more in control. There's masses of good stuff to see and I would suggest potential blog authors take a look at others offerings to gauge what's actually good and work to create similar levels of interest. I would like to ask members to report pointless entries so that the admin team can take a look and remove them to save wasting anyone else's time. I would also ask that if you're linking to an external blog that the RMweb blog entry is reasonably substantial so that the reader knows what they're likely to see if they follow a link off-site. e.g. http://www.rmweb.co....ttie-well-tank/ http://www.rmweb.co....ake-toy-trains/ Looks like the two examples you give are blogging a dead horse. Mac. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Hi Andy I agree entirely with your original examples. The sheer banality of some postings deserves deletion. But on the other hand a witty addition to a point is worth keeping, and I have no idea how one might codify good from bad when on the borderline. My pet gripe is poor spelling and grammar, where it seems the author wilfully ignores proper usage. Be ruthless. PB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think that blogs are an important function of this site that may eventually grow into being a great "one stop shop" for modellers who may not wish to manage multiple threads in different areas of the board. I for one like the idea of being able to mix rolling stock with my layout topics. I would love more interaction and find it odd that people see blogs as a big barrier for this... However I too have noticed some appalling blogs that are similar in quality to those mentioned by Andy Y. I try to take some time to make my blogs relatively interesting (and I appreciate that my subject wont be to everyone's tastes!) so I always include images where I can and I hope to use more video where possible. However when I have taken the time to write a blog post I find it frustrating to see someone multiple post 2 lines of text in two separate blog entries after me about absolutely nothing in particular. Not only does it devalue the blog but it pushes well written entries further down the page (and potentially off the side bar on the main site). Perhaps one solution would be to place these people's entries under probation? I am unsure if this is technically possible and appreciate it would mean more work but it could drive the quality up if people were prepared to moderate these users? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The blog facility was set up on RMweb for modellers to have a different channel to communicate about their modelling, prototype info or meaningful discourses. It does wind me up when I see stuff like these which isn't ever going to be of interest to anyone bar the writer. http://www.rmweb.co....7919-all-quiet/ http://www.rmweb.co....rose-silverfox/ And despite all the comments and posts trying to work out a solution you just have to face the fact that some people just work in transmit mode and the receive mode is kaput! Hence the latest contribution http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/890/entry-7957-spalding-show/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Vale Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I love the blogs, I like writing mine and try and put effort into the entries and photography. I love reading and commenting on other peoples', and they do seem to have a generally high quality level. I love that the categories and tags, or home-made indices, make it straightforward to explore particular subjects within a member's blog. Once you've found a blog the information is very accessible. The only issue I have with the waffley entries is that it can be hard to discover good content in blogs you don't already follow - once a post falls off the "Modeller's Blogs" page that's pretty much it, it's unlikely to attract much more attention. And the "I bought a train" entries take up as much space on that page as the "I spent four hours processing photographs and writing up my modelling" ones. Ideas: * Maybe the top level "Modeller's Blogs" page could have "recent" and "interesting" modes, where "interesting" is some combination score of date and number of views/comments compared to the average. Make the latter the default if it seems to work. The problem with that is you can get a vicious circle where it's hard to break into the listing if you aren't already in the listing. * Another option would be to cherry-pick some entries and have an "interesting blog entries this week" thread which points out good content. * An even simpler option would be for (readership and management) to come and interact with the blogs a bit more - sometimes it seems we're in a little world of our own in there! (edit: looks like that's happening already, nice one Andy!) I think it's going to be hard to basically rule that "all blog content must be good" - you need to encourage that behaviour by pointing out the content that is good and let that content lead by example. My 2p. Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Glad this topic's fairly high up on VNC; that way I checked out Simon's Copley Hill Works blog after his self-deprecating comments about it, and what a flipping good read his piece about the D61xx was - it was pitched just right, well written and not too heavy or likely to attract flak from the purists. And in so-doing got the balance about right for a blog. Now I'll freely admit to not frequenting that zone nearly enough, albeit I'm making part of mine pretty much as definitive a database on my specialist subject here as it's possible to find published on line (or in dead tree formats) at present: http://www.rmweb.co....market-diesels/ Too heavy and specialist for the 'Went to a show, the coffee was cold, bought Thomas to run with my Javelin' brigade. But do we/ can we nurture the latter participants in the hobby here by indulging them, when their social networking is set in the BBM/ Facebook era and doesn't observe the conventions of - dare I say - the old school, red brick 'authors?' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 But do we/ can we nurture the latter participants in the hobby here by indulging them, when their social networking is set in the BBM/ Facebook era and doesn't observe the conventions of - dare I say - the old school, red brick 'authors?' It's a pertinent point 'Chard. There are a good number of talented younger modellers amongst the membership and there's few more pleasing things than that on several levels and all of us are more than happy to support and cultivate that development process even though a number of them are better at development and initiative than 'us'. Some of 'them' can show 'us' a thing or two. There's a good number of forums out there and there are some that may be better at what they do in terms of train-setting, box opening and general fantasising (without being elitist/cliquey*) than we are without aspirations to be any more serious about the more challenging aspects of the hobby. I have quietly removed a group of people before who seemed to want to do nothing but froth over each others 37s in text-speak and treat the site as their personal playground. * - and every other 'anti-RMweb' comment that I hear from the disenchanted. I've even seen mention by someone looking to pigeon-hole us that 'we' look down on people with Lima locos. I think it's fairly evident which newcomers or even established members seek to improve and those who think we should be interested in the fact they're thinking about buying a new box to open. Oh sod it; there is a difference between all that and where I think the site's general focus is and I don't think we should have to feel any responsibility to develop lowest-common-denominators, some can't even read and act upon reasonable requests to stop polluting space with general inanities and I don't see why things should be dumbed-down by letting it go unchecked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yes, but Jim, you replied in a similar light-hearted manner, thus encouraging him! As a general point, I don't mind the rubbish (just as well because I'm responsible for a lot of it), but then I'm not in the position of Andy and Co, having to moderate it and resource it. However, I worry that by trying to eliminate the "chaff" the forum will become sterile. The magic of this place is the immediacy of the replies. Often, by the time I have read VNC there are already several new posts. I did have a look at Finescale Forum (I can't remember the exact title) but it is DULL! I am also on some other forums to do with cars and music, but it can be days or even weeks between postings, Where else can I post about a WWII bomber flying over Stevenage and get several replies within minutes? It was obviously of interest to members, but was nowt to do with railway modelling, so should it have been here at all? It is obviously up to Andy etc to decide what is appropriate, but please be careful not to ditch the baby with the bath water. Sorry, Jim, this started as a response to your post, but it kind of growed! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted November 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2011 Read this thread with interest. I wonder if the nonsense blog post appears to be more of a problem than nonsense forum posts (do I assume too much here) because they don't invite interaction in the same way that threads on the forum do. The reasoning goes that there may be an expectation on the part of some bloggers that a 'what I had for my breakfast post' is fair game and it comes without the opportunity to publicly disabuse this notion with an 'I had porridge now show us yer models' riposte. Time to return to core values? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Andy, to be honest I agree with your parting comment. Not simply a question of 'your site - your rules,' it's pretty clear to anyone who's lurked for any length of time what entry level contributions are expected. Part of me was playing Devil's Advocate - as we know there are certain members who we consciously nurture and assist, others who gentle nudging tends to keep within the bounds. But you're right, there's gotta be a threshold, and if that's not self-evidently clear from looking around the site, then these people are probably best playing on other boards. Now, about the new frost grilles the postman just delivered for these five Lima forties of mine... 8) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted November 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2011 Interesting topic this one... I have two threads and two blogs and I must admit I like both formats as for me each have their own strengths and weaknesses. I guess it needs a bit of self moderating, without Andy and the Mods feeling the need to...and indeed wasting their time. Two examples from me....When Andy did a thread about Gallery content (last year?) I immediately went to mine, felt if offered nothing so I deleted it myself before it got culled! When we post an entry on a blog and it receives no comments, then the feedback is obviously that it was not of interest. I sort of feel a bit of personal failure when that happens on the odd occaison (When I did my 2011 competition entry, I used my blog a couple of times to link it to the build thread but only as the 2mmFS picks up the RSS Blog feed on their website) What I am trying to say is...we sort of get the message ourself when we post something uninteresting...or is that not straight forward thinking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 What I am trying to say is...we sort of get the message ourself when we post something uninteresting...or is that not straight forward thinking? I think Adrian hit the nail on the head.... you just have to face the fact that some people just work in transmit mode and the receive mode is kaput! Time to return to core values? I couldn't define core values really as they're defined by the majority but there's nothing wrong in saying the site should be about interesting modelling, support and a community. If by core values it means just being topic based then I'd disagree as the good blogs prove. The playground referred to above took place in topics rather than blogs anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ427 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Having read this thread Andy will be pleased to know that I've just gone and categorised my blog! I decided to do a blog largely because I'm a slow worker and I think the more considered/diary-like approach of the blog format works for this. Whilst it can be annoying that your entry slips down the list due to (what I may perceive as) other people's drivel and is probably never read again, I do agree with bcnPete in that if it was interesting more people might have read it. On the other hand I do consider it as a kind of diary of my working progress and as such it's as much for my personal use as anything else so it's not a big deal if nobody reads it. At some point when I've more time I will probably summarise my blog info into a thread and take it from there. Perhaps a 'how-to' guide on blog editing would be in order as I couldn't find anything on a quick search. I haven't a clue as to what the custom block content is but I'd love to know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2011 I think blogs worldwide generally are written on someone's own web-space, bought and paid for, so logging the trivia of life is entirely reasonable. Here the blog is bought and paid for by Andy Y, with £ support from some of the membership, so the situation is rather different. But again, outside RMWeb one might announce one's frustrations of the day "Mum is still giving me corn-flakes, even though I ask for Sugar Puffs" etc on a free Facebook or similar page. I think we have status updates here, too - although I seem to have successfully hidden them - and I suggest they are the place for the minutiae of daily life? And adding frost grilles to a Lima Class 40 sounds like modelling to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogaloo Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I think if there was a thread (dare I say it!) outlining how to set up a blog, code an index, and generally what was expected of blogs in the current format, then members would try and make their blogs more than they currently are. Well said that man! Go on then, I think that's a fabulous idea to aid the general navigation and layout of blogs. There's some blogs on here that are compulsive reading, but they are just so hard to navigate due, I'm guessing, to the fact that the author has little or no idea of how to index code or whatever the correct jargon is. I don't know how to so I reckon it would be a great help to quite a few members. Boogy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well said that man! Go on then, I think that's a fabulous idea to aid the general navigation and layout of blogs. There's some blogs on here that are compulsive reading, but they are just so hard to navigate due, I'm guessing, to the fact that the author has little or no idea of how to index code or whatever the correct jargon is. I don't know how to so I reckon it would be a great help to quite a few members. Boogy Tell you what chaps, once I get in from work this evening, I'll make a thread up with my experiences, and some bits of code for people to indulge in with explanations as to how to use them. I'll throw in my category headers for people to download and do as they like with too. Sound good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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