Class 117 DMU Market lights, when were they fitted?

[37114]

While working on a club project (class 120 DMU), we got on to the subject of marker lights for DMU's. I have a Lima 117 DMU which has marker lights, and is used on my layout set in 1977, but a number of pictures I have seen show them without market lights, and "domino" dots instead in the headcode panels. My question therefore is:

 

1) Were there any 117's fitted with marker lights from new?

2) Does anybody have a list of when they were fitted to units, which I presume coincided with refurbishment date?

 

Many Thanks.

[Flood]

First things first, I thought you meant marker lights in the headcode box not the ones lower down. I never realised that the units weren't built with marker lights, they had them by the 1970s.

 

Some of the units appear to have lost the marker lights when refurbished. They would have had working headcode blinds up to 1976 and had these gradually replaced with dots from mid 1976 onwards: http://www.flickr.co...33453/lightbox/ .

 

However this does not seem to have been applied to all of them. The photos after 1980 appear to show no dots at all, either the boxes were so dirty you couldn't see them or the blinds were replaced with blanks: http://www.flickr.co...25467/lightbox/ .

 

By the NSE era the front of the box on a number of units had been completely plated over with the marker lights retained: http://www.flickr.co...40856/lightbox/

[The Stationmaster]

Interestingly Brian Haresnape describes them as 'fitted with marker lights' but my only pics of them in early days don't include marker lights. I wonder if some of the latter deliveries were so fitted from new as the SPCs (class 121) had them from new as did the very similar BRCW sets (later Class 118).

[multiprinter]

Class 117: DMBS 51332 - 51370 & DMS 51374 - 51412 No lights as built. Lights added almost certainly at refurbishment from 1977

DMBS 51371- 51373 & DMS 51413 - 51415 2 lights as built.

 

Class 118: DMBS 51302 - 51305 & DMS 51317 -51320 No lights as built, again probably added at similar time to 117s

DMBS 51306 - 51316 & DMS 51321 - 51331 2 lights as built.

[37114]

Class 117: DMBS 51332 - 51370 & DMS 51374 - 51412 No lights as built. Lights added almost certainly at refurbishment from 1977

DMBS 51371- 51373 & DMS 51413 - 51415 2 lights as built.

 

Class 118: DMBS 51302 - 51305 & DMS 51317 -51320 No lights as built, again probably added at similar time to 117s

DMBS 51306 - 51316 & DMS 51321 - 51331 2 lights as built.

 

Thanks for this, as my set is all blue, looks like its a renumber job or get the files out!

[leopardml2341]

As an aside and hopefully not too far off topic, don't forget that oil tail lamps were used for the red end of train indication for most of the unit's lives rather than the integral red lamp even though these were fitted (I think from new) in the same light assembly. IIRC oil tail lamps were phased out early 80's ?

[The Stationmaster]

As an aside and hopefully not too far off topic, don't forget that oil tail lamps were used for the red end of train indication for most of the unit's lives rather than the integral red lamp even though these were fitted (I think from new) in the same light assembly. IIRC oil tail lamps were phased out early 80's ?

The red on the 121s (and I presume on the 117s - thanks for the info MP - glad to know that my memory was not entirely at fault) was originally achieved by having a red shade which slipped into the semi-circular recess at the bottom of the marker light unit. When the trains were new there was such a shade kept in a special rack in the cab at each end of the car/unit but as use of the electric marker light as a tail lamp was banned almost immediately I doubt if they were ever much used.

[ianfolland]

L410 in 1978 (at Banbury and King's Sutton):

 

 

[Guest baldrick25]

Here's a shot of an almost new couple of two car sets in August 1962 . From the camera , they are W51326 + W51314, W51312 + W51328 taken at Keyham station as they head from Saltash towards Plymouth station- a route heavily bashed by me. If only film had been more affordable!, along with an excess of foresight. Does that answer the O.P.'s question.? Note the buffers!

 

 

As the O.P. mentioned a club 120 project, maybe this additional shot may help. It is of W51586 + W59583 + W51577 at again, Keyham station Wednesday 15th August 1962 as the set heads to Newton Abbot.

 

[37114]

Here's a shot of an almost new couple of two car sets in August 1962 . From the camera , they are W51326 + W51314, W51312 + W51328 taken at Keyham station as they head from Saltash towards Plymouth station- a route heavily bashed by me. If only film had been more affordable!, along with an excess of foresight. Does that answer the O.P.'s question.? Note the buffers!

 

 

 

As the O.P. mentioned a club 120 project, maybe this additional shot may help. It is of W51586 + W59583 + W51577 at again, Keyham station Wednesday 15th August 1962 as the set heads to Newton Abbot.

 

 

 

Thanks Baldrick, the first photo is of a 118, the majority of which had them from new. The photo of the 120 is also interesting as it is one of the headcode box fitted 120 which were modified in later life to have 2 market lights and no box. Great photos and thanks for sharing them.